the aids issue is is a bit of a problem  
i guess the first thing that comes to my mind not having any immediate friends with that problem is is the financial end  
and how can a country stand to uh spend as much or much more than they already are on such a problem uh  
but then that kind of thinking is also [tempered] with the the knowledge or at least the the rumor i'm not really sure if it's true or not that uh we're not spending as much per let's say [afflicted] person on cancer  
uh there's some uh  
take breast cancer for instance  
it seems to be doing much more damage and affecting much more many more people than aids  
and yet uh more people die of it  
and yet the funding has already uh exceeded  
aids has more money than uh breast cancer  
so uh  
i mean if it's true  
i i've i've always heard these things  
i've never bothered to dig it out and make sure  
but uh i've heard it on more than one documentary that uh they were complaining that whoever's sitting up there making these decisions or whatever institutions raise the money and uh  
it's just one big p r campaign that  
yeah  
we think that's the world's worst thing  
so let's give money to aids  
and yet we've had breast cancer problems for years  
and it's just  
one of those uh course one of the shows i saw was taking it from the angle that since it doesn't effect men it's not going to get funded  
and uh having thought about that for a while  
well i i kind of i thought well that that might be possible since there are a lot of men in control of that kind of thing  
but then i got i got to thinking the the number one killer of men seems to be the [prostate]  
and there's only one test that just recently got developed uh a blood [antigen] uh [antibody] test for the [antigen] in the blood  
and that's fairly recent  
and yet men have been dying from [prostate] cancer for years  
so it's not really cured  
yeah  
it's not uh not that heavily funded either  
and then that seems to be one of the the major uh problems that men have in the realm of cancer  
so i don't know  
i i guess there's just some strange public opinion as to who they want to give to uh be it through different organizations march of [dimes] type uh [telethons] or or bicycle rides or whatever how they fund whatever uh illness they wish  
it's kind of hard to to get an even keel on that  
i mean it's really hard to say  
well there's you know a hundred thousand per year affected by this one  
so let's give it this amount  
and then this other one's only a tenth of that  
so give it a tenth of that and and just keep [doling] it out that way  
or  
right  
right  
that's true  
you know the the other thought that i had uh  
i've had several minutes to think about this after i uh  
while i was finding people i uh i could think about the topic longer that the person that receives it  
so it's kind of a a unfair advantage   as it were  
but the other thing that i thought of on this is i wonder if there isn't enough money uh in our economy or in our system  
uh it seems like there's so much that goes to things that don't really do a whole lot of good  
i mean yeah  
they're kind of nice  
but we have such an affluent society society that i wonder if if we took a little from here and there and the other if we might wind up with a a cure for just about everything  
of course then we wouldn't have any room to put people  
but that's  
yeah  
you know you hear these ridiculous figures for pizza  
or you hear these these phenomenal amounts of dollars spent for this that or the other  
and then you have all the arts that that are nice and [aesthetic]  
but   are they that [enhancing] for the for the masses you know  
they certainly do well for those who go to the symphony orchestra and all that  
but uh had all that [donation] and time and labor and effort gone toward something else  
than  
well that's interesting isn't it  
yeah  
right  
what did you think about that idea  
they've not really given it attention either  
yeah  
right  
well i'm i'm glad i'm not the one that's that's in charge of of making those decisions  
they uh you wish that there could just be money for all these problems because they're all so serious you know  
i mean it's not so serious i guess until it affects your family  
and then all of a sudden it's the most important thing  
so i i would hate to have that responsibility just personally  
but but then again we really we really do have it as a society to decide which things we need to address  
i uh i guess i it it frightens me to think of so many people with with aids and with cancer  
and many of those things uh if they're not able to to be insured then the country's going to pay for it one way or the other   whether it's through prevention or or treatment or you know just uh just helping the people when they are not able to take care of themselves  
it seems like one way or the other we're going to end up paying for it  
but  
just change our  
right  
just change our priorities   a little bit  
right  
well aids is a nasty terrible disease  
and you die from it  
so i think that uh they need to look into it  
and it's kind of like cancer  
i don't you know  
how many years have we tried to find a cure for cancer  
i think it'll probably be as difficult  
uh how about yourself  
yeah  
they say a million people are [infected]   with the h i v virus  
and uh yeah  
i think  
uh in the country america  
yeah  
and they have millions  
i don't know  
i've just heard it on the radio  
sometimes you hear things that on the radio that you know could be true or couldn't be  
uh do you feel like this is  
i i guess they're spending a billion or so a year on this aids research  
do you think they should spend more  
what do you think doug of mister johnson  
magic  
do you think he's the hero that he's being called by a bunch of other a bunch of the media  
you know i took advantage of the opportunity when you know he came out  
i talked to my kids about it you know  
it's something that i hadn't hadn't done before  
uh  
i'm glad that mister johnson's changed his tune on uh safe sex to abstinence  
or   i was glad he did that for young kids because a lot of kids would have ended up dying because of what he was promoting  
uh let's see  
what are some of the other questions  
uh you don't uh  
let's see  
i don't have any friends that have the disease  
i guess you might might not  
is it pretty   nasty  
yeah  
it sounds awful  
is it just that the immune system [ceases] to function properly  
and  
and  
oh really  
you think about aids research  
uh_huh  
um well i'm certainly in favor of aids research  
and i think probably the government could spend a bit more money on it than it does  
i think that  
because besides the fact that it's a deadly disease that it's a contagious disease so that it's um  
although it is not killing that many people now it still has the opportunity to get out of control and become a huge problem  
uh_huh  
that's in the world or in america  
you  
oh really  
um that's  
whose figure is that  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i i think they should actually although perhaps not a an incredible amount more than what they're doing  
and i don't necessarily think that they should uh fund aids research and in the process neglect cancer research or whatever  
i think that it would be a good thing for the government to increase funding for medical research in general  
um   well i well i am sorry that he has the virus  
i um i don't know  
i don't i think it's very strange that the media hasn't um questioned him more strongly to about gay sex or [intravenous] drugs or anything like that as they probably would for a lot of other people  
um well not not really though i mean i think he's probably doing the right thing for a man in his position  
but i don't think it's anything exceptional that he's doing  
it's what many people have done already who were just less famous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i do  
my cousin does for instance  
and um  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
he's actually um  
he had aids related complex for a while  
and he is now in full blown aids really not doing very well and has a brain [tumor] or that sort of thing  
yeah  
it's it's a very nasty thing  
um yeah  
that's that's basically it that um the immune system can at first slow down  
and the white blood cell count goes down  
which is that's aids related complex  
but then when things get completely out of control and it basically hits bottom that's aids  
and in that case you know people are prone to getting any kind of you know weird cancer that only animals got before  
and  
yeah  
that sort of thing  
well michael what do you think about uh funding for aids research  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess i'm not too aware of how much they're spending right now   you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean i  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i i can see that research is needed  
and you know  
definitely  
i mean it's becoming a major problem  
but uh   i guess the area that i think more about is i would like to see them focus on uh preventing it uh   in more   you know  
right  
and i   i feel like just saying uh safe sex is not the answer  
it's   it's uh   abstinence in certain cases  
and  
yeah  
and knowing you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think for a lot of people it has  
so  
so  
uh_huh  
drug addicts  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
boy   that's a hard issue  
it really is  
yeah  
i mean i i definitely think that it's the drug problem that needs to be addressed  
but as you say uh people i mean in the meantime  
well   someone who's not ready to give up drugs uh   you know  
if they're [perpetrating] the aids problem passing that on to each other then   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't either  
i've heard you know uh   different voices   speaking up and saying we're not spending enough  
and   mostly that's what i've heard  
so i don't know  
and yet i know it's uh it sounds like big money to me  
but it   probably takes   a lot  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did you have any fear working in the hospital with that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh uh that's something i've thought a lot about  
uh i i work in a hospital  
and i've worked in the hospital for fifteen years  
and i've taken care of a few aids patients  
uh when they asked us did did we want to uh keep it the same or uh spend more spend less i think   uh i think right now what they're spending is adequate   uh my for my personal opinion   uh because i think it's something that's going to take them a while to come up with a uh [vaccine] for  
i don't think it's going to be that easy to come up with  
or i think they already would have by now you know  
and uh so i don't know if if spending a lot more money would really make any difference right now  
i think they're doing the is as much research as they can possibly do you know  
and uh what about you  
i'm not either  
i'm definitely not aware of how much  
uh that's something i've never really kept up with at all  
uh i don't   i'm not sure uh  
i know uh i've always thought more about the disease rather than the research  
you know what i mean  
and uh that sort of thing  
uh if if we were talking about the money uh i'd just have to say what they're spending is probably enough simply because i don't know that much about it   you know  
oh yeah  
i think so  
i think so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's true  
that's true   because uh it's a such an easily preventable disease  
uh  
no  
it's definitely not  
that's true  
that's true  
uh  
myself uh uh i'm just recently or about to get a divorce  
and uh course i'm not all ready to just run out there and start dating everybody i can or anything  
but it's sort of scary to find yourself single again you know  
and uh because you never know what's going to happen  
you don't know who you're going to come across you know  
course it's it's not that i'm wanting to i'm not going to want to go and have sex with everybody i see  
but it's something you got to think about these days  
a single person   you know  
and uh i mean it certainly changed my attitude about that   in a hurry  
and uh  
certainly  
yeah  
but uh uh i know that uh in some of these larger cities they're passing out free [syringes] and all of that sort of thing   to prevent you know so that uh the drug addicts   won't be   getting dirty needles and everything  
and uh i don't know  
i don't think that's a bad idea  
i know it uh sort of doesn't address the problem of drug addiction  
it just sort of keeps that going  
but uh i don't know  
at least drug addiction can be treated whereas aids so far cannot be   you know  
so i don't know  
that i think that's  
i'm not too much against the the passing out of the free [syringes] myself  
i don't know  
what do you think about that  
it   it really is  
it really is  
they gave us a hard topic  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
you know i guess if you consider the two problems drug addiction and aids   aids would have to come first i guess as far as   something to to do about it  
so so i don't know  
uh course there's so many things in the world where if you solve one problem you may be creating another you know  
and uh so i guess you just have to take the two problems and see which is worse   which is the most important to solve at the time  
and  
i don't know  
but uh but i've never looked into how much money they're spending  
i have i have no idea  
and i know a lot of our tax money goes to that  
but uh i really have never looked into it  
i have no idea  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it is  
i think it is  
yeah  
it does every  
it seems to take more than uh for any little thing they do  
it seems to take a lot more money that you would think it would   you know  
but uh  
that's one thing i've never really [feared]  
uh uh i  
a lot of the my family you know they fear me working like that and under some some of those conditions  
but uh   uh i don't fear it at all  
uh i work in in the operating room a lot  
and uh and of course when  
so julie how do you feel about aids research  
i'd agree too  
but i mean it seems like it just makes economic sense in that you know uh you know  
it would have made even better economic sense to to to have had a lot more research than a longer ago  
you know because you know because uh the country's going to wind up paying for the treatment of patients  
uh_huh  
i think they cover aids  
but what they do is uh if you know you apply for for to get a a insurance policy   they'll uh check to see if you're h i v positive  
and if you are not only will they not give you uh a policy  
but they'll uh they have like  
there's like you know a [database] of people that have tested positive  
so you'll never be able to get insurance ever again  
yeah  
i think a lot of it was was just that you know because of of the you know because because the majority of the high risk groups were people   no one really cared about  
that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
one one one one humorous [retort] i heard heard someone you know who claimed that you know aids was you know god's punishment   was that then [lesbians] must be god's chosen people  
but uh  
so uh  
uh do you think you mean do you actually think we're doing enough right now to  
private organizations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i mean it seems that you know it's just you know of it's just going to reach a steady a steady state a let a lot lot higher point than it will if we you know we'd [nip] it in the bud to quote barney [fife]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i would probably agree with that  
uh so do do you think it's more important to spend money on research or for support of uh people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it's i think it stands a really interesting question of uh  
i think we need we definitely need more of it definitely  
oh yeah  
yeah  
for certain  
exactly  
exactly  
does does like do health insurance policies like for companies and things do they cover diseases like that  
uh_huh  
um well that's but that's why they should have started doing stuff before  
i mean still you know since it's [dormant] for such a long time there's still probably a lot of people you know before the tests ever really came out   who are who are [draining] a lot of money right now you know  
right  
right  
right  
and all these god [fearing] people were like well you know   god is trying to kill off all the et cetera et cetera  
uh  
yeah  
boy  
that's a good one  
yes  
no  
i really don't  
i did i did like a research kind of thing on aids research and stuff  
and uh really we're not doing much at all  
i mean most of what gets raised i mean it's not really federal movement most of what gets raised gets raised by uh uh you know   conscious yeah communities and things like that you know  
like uh san francisco has a a real uh strong aids support group and all that kind of stuff  
and   and uh get they get donations from the community you know they're real   and from corporations around the around the city you know for aids research and that kind of thing  
and uh i think there needs to be more of that sort of on a federal level you know rather than just in the places where it's you know where it's [predominated] so far because it's you know it's   bound to spread  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
i don't know  
i i i don't know what the likelihood of that is  
but i mean you know people really waking up  
especially with the ultra [conservatives]   move our our political system sort of seems to be taking  
yeah  
so  
god  
that's a good question fish  
i don't know  
uh i think i think one of the main things that's really important to spend money on is education not support or or research per se but but education because a lot of people sort of get [drummed] out of the work place and out of society you know kind of like [lepers] would   you know  
and it's really it's really not necessary uh until until the disease reaches its final stage you know becomes really [infectious]  
and uh i think that would be the most effective support they could get is for other people to understand you know try to understand what they're going through and everything and try to understand that   they're not you know they don't they don't have to be just completely cut off from from the community  
and that and uh i don't know  
i guess i think that that uh research is i guess the most important just because i you know it it really needs to come to an end   you know  
i don't know  
i don't know fish  
what do you think about that subject  
well [charlie] what do you think should we spend more on aids research or stay the same
why do you think we don't spend enough
well i agree with you
i think we have a lot of talk but not dollars
and you know we we our situation where we're faced with people that you know choose a lifestyle that may cause aids
but then at the same token there are a lot of people like the children in florida who didn't choose a lifestyle but there was no help for them
and i think one of the things we can do as far as the government goes is just to [dispel] some of the myths you know drinking from a water [fountain] will give you aids
using a restroom will give you aids
but at the same token i feel like heart disease cancer multiple [sclerosis] where do we put those in perspective to aids
no
i don't
and you know i'm like you i do not know
what the government is spending on aids
yes
right
yeah
well i'm in texas
and we have a teacher that died from aids
yeah
well not my school district
but it was in the state of texas
and it was because of a transfusion
and i think that got a lot more publicity because again it wasn't a minority group
and you know we're looking at a situation that hopefully can be controlled it is frightening
you know because it could be you
or i
and then what would we do we'd want help
that's true
yeah
well my mother had a blood transfusion about four years ago
and i i was scared to even mention to her
that there was an emergency situation
we couldn't give she couldn't give her blood and we couldn't go down to give our blood for her
and you know there's always the possibility
no
but the
i agree with you
uh
okay
i'll start uh funding i think that in light of the seriousness of it of the fact that that by what uh i think they said by the year two thousand there will be at least five
is it five thousand a year or more
uh
yeah
we'll be dying from it
and i know uh what is it uh over in africa
it's just already in horrendous uh
yeah
it really is
so in light of that
i think that that we're probably going to have to increase the funding for research
i think that uh i don't know
if they have it
but it looks like to me that all the countries could go together and have like a joint aids research program
i don't know if they already have one of those
where everybody could put in their input i don't know
i don't know
i don't i don't hear about research that much except in the terms of what the united states is doing
and the celebrities that's you know the benefits and things that they put on
for aids
research i do i did hear about uh africa
and uh how rampant
it is over there
and i know uh in talking to
i have a relative that works for uh state welfare in oklahoma the aids children that are coming in with it uh
it
i mean it it's it's tragic it's just absolutely horrible
and it's you know it's not just [homosexuals] it's you know [heterosexuals] it's you know the drug users it's
innocent people that you know go in for blood transfusions so i mean it's starting to affect everyone
i think that probably partly is it
i think that it is has received so much more publicity since we have had well known actors athletes
everything come down with it i think that uh i do agree with someone when uh magic johnson announced uh there was a uh [spokesperson] for the gay community that came out and said that you know it would not be receiving this much publicity if it wasn't for someone like magic johnson
and it would be you know very interesting to see
that's right
that's right
and i think it it
i think it makes people more aware that it hits other than just the gay community
and uh but i do think that that in light of the
in fact that it's going to hit all of us
i think what are they saying by the year two thousand
i think it's one in three is supposed to have it you know it it because it it is it's spreading so rapidly
oh i didn't realize that
well it is
i know that i i heard another conversation regarding aids the fact that that you know cancer is not receiving this
and yet is is cancer growing at such a rapid rate
you know it's it's
you know
and i think that's what is scaring people is that it is reaching such epidemic [proportions] you know where is is cancer on the is it rising as rapidly
you know as for instance aids you know uh
i don't i don't know
either you know it it's just uh and granted
i i do think that because of the publicity and because of the people you know getting it and everything
i think that that people are more aware of it than you know say if you know someone just dies with cancer
which is it's a tragic way
i mean you know
yes
yeah
well i don't know
i really am not sure what they're spending on aids aids research
i get the impression it's a pretty sizeable chunk of money
i was always uh uh i'm trying to remember where it was
but recently uh somebody on the news said that one of the problems with uh aids research
was that each time they find somebody with you know about every fourth or fifth person they've diagnosed with aids has got a new strain they seem to be [mutating] just like about about like the common cold
finding a cure for something like that could be several hundred years in the making
well
yeah
the general
yeah
general human yeah
that might help to
it might help the awareness part
but uh
yeah
yeah
i don't know it you know the uh funding situation seems to be the same for so many of the major diseases so to speak
the uh bulk of the money goes to administrative costs
which usually means high salaries for people running the show and a major name researcher is involved with it
but you know who knows what actually gets done as far as true research
yeah
it seems everywhere you turn somebody's coming up with it wild part about it
nobody seems to want to suggest the idea that doing without is the only safe way of keeping from getting it they figured well you know we all want to be [promiscuous] so they're just running all over the place
and
yeah
no
there are people who don't get it from [promiscuity] there's the sorts who get it through blood transfusions yeah
that's the [saddest] cases of all of or that woman who died just recently the one who died just recently got it uh from her dentist something like twenty two twenty three years old died of aids
she got it because her dentist had it and didn't use any precaution i don't know
those are the sad cases
southern mississippi
yeah
um right now as far as the state budget concerning aids awareness
i'm not even sure that there is
i know there isn't any on the city level or on the county level
i'm not sure if the state's got much of anything on the aids awareness
i think most of the aids awareness information is more or less coming through private sector um
yeah
well uh actually i'm i kind of uh
well that's like between saying yes and no
it uh i think that we're uh spending about what we should but i'm not exactly sure if we're spending it in the right right uh uh location
yes
right
right
uh but i think that a lot of people have the attitude that the more money you throw at something the uh better chance you have of [curing] it
and that's just not true
right
i think uh you know that that money needs to be spent on on research
but i i think uh you know it should be a a wide spectrum of research and not just uh research on a cure and not not on a research on how to [prolong] life or or uh make the disease any any less traumatic you know i think money
i think one once
somebody has contracted the disease
that's that's uh you know that's unfortunate
but let's try to concentrate on on you know let's put resources on making sure
nobody else gets it uh
right
right
well i think uh you know there's there's my opinion is there's there's a there is a limited number of resources medical resources available
and i think it is foolish to to uh spend most of those uh a a large majority of those resources on people who have aids uh simply because they they uh they need attention right away or or need more attention than somebody who has heart disease or or slow cancer or something
i think i don't know
i think uh too much money is being spent on on a on sophisticated medical treatment for for people for people who need to be in a hospice program
yes
well that
i mean that fits the country
we live in the people
oh okay
yeah
the
i mean the people with the [loudest] voice get the money it's not necessarily the people who uh who deserve it the most
right
although that sounds [heartless] that's that's
right
well i know just something local to you
i i used to live in dallas
and so i have some friends there
and i know for example uh parkland hospital is spending or at least was when i was there spending a large portion of their their budget on on on basically warehousing aids victims and you know that's you know i i you know my heart goes out to those people who who have the disease
but i don't think that we should be spending uh you know that that a majority of the hospitals resources should not go for for uh indigent aids patients
have you any thoughts
okay
well uh i'll tell you i am uh uh impressed with the uh uh amount of spending that's occurred so far as far as aids research and i think that uh proportionately maybe uh so far
it's been enough
it seems like it seems like uh there's not uh been any money taken away from other necessary medical research uh uh subjects uh you know in in allocated towards the aids research
i think that aids research has been a a lot of the funding has not been done by the government
a lot of it has been done by private endowment uh but i think the government is doing a good job
so far of keeping the uh their portion of the funding up
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
exactly
uh it although i was uh i i was shocked at the public uh uh outrage uh that occurred after after i think it was dan quayle who said uh you know who suggested that maybe maybe we you know maybe that is a a possible
and and uh uh likely most effective solution is you know abstinence
and and yet the a large portion of the community said well that's stupid you know that just shows that you have no interest in in in spending any money on the on the problem
and i thought that's not
that's not the point at all
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
okay
that makes a little bit of sense
uh i i hadn't i was not aware that that was uh such a a within the n i h that uh that was much uh
start us
yeah
right
because it's just getting worse and worse and worse and worse
yeah
it already has
right
although they're doing a whole more than they were five years ago
you know they're living longer and and their medicines are a whole lot better
so they're not having to go through as many of the as of the other diseases or so it sounds anyway
as you know when when all of this first started out they they came down with every single disease that came down the pipes because they had no immune system
and they suffered so much worse
so
you know at at least they're making progress but they've got to get it stopped they've got to find a cure
so have i
yeah
well yeah
well especially with you know surgeries all the time
it's so scary
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
and you know well with the time factor it could be up to ten years
you know
so that's what's so bad
and and you may test negative this time
but you may test positive you know two weeks down the road
so the test is relevant for that very day
but not necessarily forever
yeah
yeah
yeah
and and like when i went in the hospital you have to sign a paper saying that that you'll allow them to give blood if they if you need it
otherwise they won't do the surgery
so what do you do
i mean yeah
you're given the option of signing or not signing but if you say no
i don't want the blood then they they may say well then i'm not going to do the surgery
right
right
what what can they do
well that's right
and they've got to do something about it
they can't put it on the back burner and just say well you know the research is going on and doing good enough
because it's not
there's no cure yet
you got it
yeah
of course i don't have that problem
i probably will never have to worry about that
oh gosh what a shame
slight chance you think
ugh
oh
it is it's like okay show me your papers
then we'll talk
yeah
well they're doing a lot over in europe
with it
and i know when randy was so sick
he was having medications flown in from europe because he couldn't get his hands on it over here
and uh
uh_huh
yeah
so he was he had a lot of medication coming in from europe
and then he finally was able to get the what is the a z t over here only because he had connections that was not open to the public at that time
so i don't know
but they've got to do it because it's it's everywhere
to everybody
of course
that's right
there's nothing to lose so you may as well do whatever you got to do
yeah
or if it was one of my kids
right
no problem
yeah
yeah
a little over two years
a little over two years
and at that point he was the fifth fifth longest [survivor] but see that was almost four years ago
and now they're living a whole lot longer
so
but he
i mean jeez
he had everything under the sun he had hepatitis he had [meningitis] he got throat cancer and he never smoked even a grapevine much less a cigarette you know um just you name it
he he just
oh it was horrible
it was horrible
yeah
and then i had another very dear friend of mine die four months after randy did
and uh he didn't know he was sick
he'd just you know had a cold that he couldn't shake all winter
and kept getting [sicker] and [sicker] and finally went in the hospital and uh he had pneumonia and both lungs were full
and he died within about sixteen hours
of going to the hospital
yeah
yeah
yeah
and his friend had died the year before
and they swore it wasn't aids
but i know darn good
and well it was
you know so ooh
it's just that that's close to home
you're kidding
um my gosh
all righty  
uh i guess our topic today is air pollution  
and we are to just discuss what substances do you think that contribute most to air pollution as well as what society can do to improve the air quality of the atmosphere around us  
um does your work [entitle] uh anything of environmental along these lines  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's uh uh uh well  
i work in i work in [environmentals] uh projects right now  
and so the sherman deal is um uh lost a lot of hair over that project  
uh what we run into um is we have the texas air control board t a c b that send out uh jurisdictions under which we have to uh uh [reply] to  
and a lot of their rules and regulation aren't real clear so we have our manager of environmental who [assist] the t a c b which is located in austin in writing  
and hey  
look what we've done here at t i  
and uh we are presently uh in receipt of a site permit which will allow us to um uh  
this is our side   allow to have certain emissions up to a certain [tonnage]  
it's in   in in tons per year um  
and so you know what we do to make contributions so that basically we go and do things like put in high tech [scrubber] systems uh that uh scrub out the n o x and uh v o c's and and [ammonia] [compounds] uh like all the acids to a certain level  
we   are very um aware of the [opacity] which is the [thickness] of a stack emissions  
so if you don't see anything coming out of a stack the [opacity] is zero or twenty or [thereabouts]  
and so what we go through is uh if you see it smoking there's a problem  
and having worked with some of the legal folks very closely uh it becomes a real issue especially when it's smoking  
and you have to get it fixed el [pronto]  
as you know they they're allowed to come on site the [federaldes] anytime they want drive through and see and inspect  
so it's a full time uh everybody has their home phone number type of job um  
the sherman facility we are still in the closer too but still have a little bit of um [finalization] to do  
right  
it's been pitched to the sherman city council with um   open arms as well as the public  
we had open [forum]  
and and uh uh tom jones our environmental corporate environmental guys handle the project  
and uh its real uh going real well  
i think it's matter just a matter of fund   funds right now as i understand it uh  
but it's uh it's something else  
yeah  
they're they're they're in the same issue  
we were hoping on burning a lot of the [effluent] up there  
uh because the the system is setup where it won't have any emissions  
you're correct  
it will have something coming out of the [stackhouse] it was   it was human nature  
but it won't have can any uh any bad stuff  
so uh i think t i we spend of all the major semiconductor firms we probably put safety and environmental on the [utmost] foremost uh uh first thing we always look at  
and we probably put more money into the systems and engineering behind the system of any other firm i know of  
we eat and sleep the stuff everything we do over here  
and uh it's an interesting job  
but um  
possibly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm familiar with that one  
we have we have stuff that's very interesting uh  
we have hoods  
we have [duckwork] and all those type of interesting pieces of equipment where um they have um that we sample  
and it may have over uh a certain emission levels  
this is on the solid side  
and so we take it  
and uh we can't deep well [inject] something like that because it's a solid  
and we mix it with concrete   and actually um [potash] per se and concrete and then actually put it in the ground but not so not in a hazardous waste location because it's basically a concrete slab  
it was totally legal  
but the cost of doing this is astronomical   they actually show you what [duckwork] and things  
and so we were uh very very uh [cognizance] of and aware of all these types of uh expenditures because it could get very expensive  
but i think we uh you know we do all kinds of things to make the the world a better place to live you know  
i think some of the folks that aren't aware of it will be surprised at how much effort and energy is put into doing that  
i really would  
um i've enjoyed speaking with you  
this has been an interesting topic  
uh i was one of the  
i was responsible for all the planning and engineering over the corporate or in the north building  
yeah  
so uh i hope you like your office  
yeah  
yeah  
glad to see y'all taken care of  
well the uh i think what changed everything and uh is uh y'all were y'all were the only ones that make any money for t i here in the last ten years    
exactly  
and that's um when when you start when you start paying your way uh you know jerry takes a different outlook towards you guys  
i was just  
exactly  
i've enjoyed speaking with you  
see you later  
bye bye  
right  
me i'm in the legal department  
and um we do have uh a group of attorneys who handle our environmental issues  
and i don't know too much about the air pollution thing  
i do know for other types of pollution like the toxic waste and such that t i has to [dispose] of that we normally put in the ground you know we're coming up with a uh a new solution  
we have been finding a lot of toxic places to dump  
and we just transport to these places  
but after awhile it always seems that the um oh the site starts to leak  
and then you have to clean it up and such  
but the new idea is to take everything up to sherman  
and we're going have that you know incineration place up there and   dump everything there  
and supposedly that facility will not generate air pollutants from what i've heard that everything would be in in you know a confined kind of incinerator and just burn it all up  
and that we won't be polluting the air  
i'm sure we have to have uh permits you know for that place and that there's you know limits as to what we can uh let you know go into the air  
oh okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
now is that place built  
or you're still on the [makings] of it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i know from some of the sites that we've had uh quite a list of [cites] that have gone bad  
and you have to clean up  
and you know the law now is the super fund  
and anybody who's contributed toxic waste no matter if you were somebody that eventually you know uh damaged the ground or not  
uh everybody has to contribute  
and it's been a lot of big bucks when we've gotten uh gotten pulled into these super fund deals to clean it up and you know mega bucks to uh you know take everything out and redo it and you know fill in some other area  
and um certainly it would to have a better solution like the sherman facility than um just letting it go in the ground  
because eventually you know it it seems that no matter what they do if they put it in oil drums and then seal it in some kind of cement lined uh dump area  
it still only in time starts to leak out  
yeah  
there there was one site that they cleaned up  
and then the new place leaked again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
yeah  
oh you were  
oh okay  
yes  
yes  
it's a heck of a lot different  
and we used to be really embarrassed about the gray metal desk  
we were about the only   place in you know t i that had the gray metal desk  
people used to come and laugh and go gee i hadn't seen one of those ten fifteen years  
we   finally got a little respect  
nobody thought of us as a profit center before  
right  
right  
not just overhead  
you too  
bye  
uh robert what do you uh think what substances do you think are the most uh likely causes of air pollution  
right  
do you uh do you think that those are bigger contributors than things like acid rain and some of the pollutants that come from uh industrial areas factories and so on  
i was going to say  
and and you so you understand smog  
uh_huh  
wow  
my word  
and that was a few years ago  
i i wonder if it's any better now   because they uh california has such strict rules   um about emissions and so on  
um i i don't know if you heard about the uh recent legislation in uh colorado uh against a power company uh that's actually on indian land i believe  
but uh it has been ruled against uh regarding air pollution because they think that it's causing terrible smog over the grand canyon   and um particularly in the winter months  
so they  
it was uh a landmark case because it's unusual to um  
i can  
they they were talking about [shutting] it down or if it didn't comply and so on  
i don't know that  
the information is one of those wire services kind of news pieces of news you know  
so it's hard  
i never did see the full story  
so i don't know  
but they said that that it really caused so much smog over uh the grand canyon in the winter months that they couldn't do the uh [piloting] uh you know the [helicopter] trips and that sort of thing   which would be horrible   because the there's nothing  
i mean that's such a [spectacle]  
it would be a shame to ruin it  
uh what do you think individuals could do or society could do to alleviate this problem  
right  
uh_huh  
you think it's more more to society  
well i guess i kind of agree there  
i uh  
on an individual basis there isn't a lot we can do about a lot of things  
but if we are concerned about it then we certainly can uh force uh government uh that we elect to deal more seriously with it  
and i do think that we have a responsibility there  
i must admit i'm not always real politically active  
but i do think that um congress has backed down much too much on some of the air pollution standards  
and it's brought the  
they uh really listen to  
the the uh [lobbyist] and uh the car manufacturing companies have uh you know have really pushed  
they  
all those restrictions are really too hard  
we can't we can't quite make that go  
and they don't  
and then we still live with air pollution  
um so i suspect that that's one thing that that as individuals we can do make our voices known perhaps to our legislators  
but um as a society i think we can do more  
and that's probably how we ought to do it uh being individually responsible as uh in order to be group responsible  
right  
uh_huh  
i suspect that the that there's going to have to be a lot of pressure uh come to bear on the companies that deal with it  
and probably the only way that can happen is for um governments to realize that they have to pay if companies don't  
and uh i don't know how long that that will take  
sure  
exactly  
yeah  
right  
right  
well it's just the same thing with the car uh uh the gasoline  
now is a wonderful time to smack a fifty cent a gallon tax on gasoline   so that we don't uh run into the kind of problems we recently had  
and yet the government is not going to do that because people are too dependent  
and they don't want they don't want to pay for it  
so instead we spend billions of dollars going to war  
uh you know  
however it might have had other causes  
certainly oil was a big factor  
um and i think that's probably going to happen with with such things as air pollution   when we when we get serious about cleaning about our motors in our automobiles then uh then maybe you know we'll have a little bit of help um uh  
do you have any air pollution in your area  
oh no  
your talking about from from the uh the middle middle states   that that have more factories and so on  
yeah  
we really don't have that either  
although i think i can tell a difference in i lived in this area for about twenty five years and i think i can tell a difference in the comfort level uh particularly in the summer uh you know when it gets hot   and you have the that kind of a pressure from the pockets of air uh usually they say caused by exhaust  
it seems to me that i'm more uncomfortable  
and you know my eyes sting more and so on and so on  
so i suspect that it's it's an ever growing problem  
well i suspect that we've probably covered everything that we need to here  
it was nice talking to you  
so did i  
bye bye  
um gee  
i don't i mean  
i i guess it's the stuff that comes out of automobile exhaust you know  
they say in the paper [nitrous] oxides and ozone and all that  
so i believe them  
but i'm not a chemist  
i don't really know um  
i grew up in los angeles and have felt like i was victimized by air pollution  
i understand it very well  
and in fact i was a private pilot there  
and i can remember very etched etched clearly in my mind uh flying and coming up above the smog layer at about three thousand feet and looking back down and and really being [unbelieving] at   what looked like a uh  
it just looked liked peanut butter  
thick and brown and so on  
this was quite a few years ago  
this was in the nineteen sixties  
people say that it is somewhat better  
right  
um  
so did it burn coal  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i don't uh i don't know whether we could do a whole lot as individuals uh maybe just take good care of our cars   and make sure we keep our pollution devices clean and all that sort of thing um  
apart from that i i don't know what we can do as individuals  
what do you think we can do  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess i'm i'm to the point where i'm cynical enough that i really don't believe anything will happen unless unless there's something economically [justifiable] about it  
and in the case of air pollution it simply might turn out at some point down the road to be so costly to have to live with air pollution in terms of health problems   and everything else that we'll spend the money that's necessary to uh to get rid of the source of it  
yeah  
people also have to realize they can't have their cake and eat it  
so if you don't want to burn coal for power   how about nuclear energy  
well we don't want that either  
how about investing in the sun  
well nobody wants to pay twenty five cents a [kilowatt] hour i don't think  
uh i probably wouldn't mind if it really came down to it  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
yes  
oh certainly  
yes  
yeah  
there's not really a lot here in raleigh  
uh once in a while we'll get some uh  
i think it kind of [washes] down from uh from your area linda  
that's what they that's what they  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they say  
but it's it's not it's not very usual  
and certainly we don't have the eye [stinging] variety that you get in the big cities  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i think   we've given them about seven minutes according to my watch  
and i enjoyed the conversation  
bye  
oh go ahead  
i i am glad to talk to an expert  
i always wanted to know who an expert was  
uh well there there's two things uh  
the one i'm interested the most i guess myself uh would be the the freons i mean for air  
the one i guess that's the one i'm most curious about is how they're going to replace the freons in air conditioning  
that seemed to be the biggest surprise to me  
and whether  
when they replace it you know they're going to really come up with something that is not just as bad  
yeah  
i uh was uh you know  
where they were all concerned about that  
but that that it seems to be  
no  
i heard about it though  
was that before  
i didn't see it  
was that before they actually did that  
or it was  
because of that   you know  
right  
are you  
you didn't work at t i  
oh okay  
where do you work in research  
or  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
uh well i'm kind of a car buff myself  
i was going to ask you another question  
but uh i'll do that in a minute  
i i think that the changing you know from leaded fuel was a tremendous advantage you know not using  
no  
no  
no  
really  
oh i'm a car buff too  
we ought to talk about that one day uh uh  
i think you can use the you can use high you know the ninety two percent uh ninety two [octane] i don't think you'll have any trouble  
oh yeah  
yeah  
no  
i i think uh  
i uh work on my own cars  
and uh i don't think that's a problem  
i thought  
i'm saying i was glad to get rid of leaded gasoline  
and  
uh-oh  

the same thing about the war uh or related to the war on  
i was watching c n n  
and i cannot remember what station it was  
what  
did you see the advertisements uh where they talked about nuclear war what that would have been like in changing the atmosphere  
it is so scary that i hope that every one of the government officials saw that because it was just total disaster you know  
did you see any of those uh i  
it was  
it must have been channel thirteen  
i don't recall  
although i thought it was on c n n oh  
i  
it was a somewhat of a commercial because it i saw it regularly  
and it showed that  
and it was really devastating  
and it would uh  
how much ash would fall  
and and how it would essentially literally destroy the world you know  
oh really  
yeah  
there there's probably a lot of natural things uh  
yeah  
uh it  
i guess it's got to be really  
i don't know  
i don't know if it's air pollution it's uh it's dust pollution whether it's natural or not i don't know  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well i live in arlington  
and there there there are no buses  
i mean there there is  
the only school bus the only buses you see are school buses  
so  
well i know it it's uh you know  
the car is  
we have this big romance with the car  
but uh i think people are would be interested if you had one i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well you said you were car buff uh  
i think that uh all of us could use one electric car right now i mean today   because i think uh you said people drive forty miles and fifty whatever  
yeah  
when you go to trips and all you can have one gasoline car  
but i think we all could in a family say have an electric car where my one of my daughters or my wife my wife she could use one now if they had one you know   because they she don't even she doesn't put fifty miles a day on the car  
no  
no  
you're right  
i i have seen them  
but uh they have a battery car  
uh i went to the auto show this past week  
and they did not [endorse]  
now that i think of it  
and i was so interested in the auto show i didn't think to ask anybody  
there were no electric cars  
i was surprised  
but now that you just mentioned that  
yeah  
i i think uh there could be a lot of  
i  
people close this is really  
we're we're nine years away or less i guess from the next century and i think  
yeah  
they've got a they've got a area over in the s m building too which is uh  
but it's a solar uh  
it's for uh  
[gots] some money from a power company  
and it's probably more [generating] power for you know uh electricity a hundred and twenty [volt] or whatever  
no  
i'm actually in the south building  
but uh  
i was uh i'm the facility  
so i've been in all most of the buildings anyway  
oh yeah  
well the the solar area is right right around from the auditorium now  
and it  
they've got several different uh areas where they're called solar lab  
it's   right there on the first floor you look walk by there  
yeah  
but the solar project you know t i's been into it for years  
and i guess it's just not uh economical yet because of the other fuels  
yeah  
i've seen some  
i think  
then again i'm surprised now i didn't think they'd asked anybody when i was in the auto show  
there was nothing uh  
and there was no place for air pollution or companies or anyone there  
it was just pure automobiles  
there  
huh  
i didn't see  
did you go  
oh  
uh i was uh quite impressed with all the cars you know  
the engines are so much smaller now and everything  
and they're they all have brand new engines even general motors uh  
very few  
only the [caprice] and them and the cadillac had eight uh the old v eights  
they're all brand new engines  
uh of course they're burning gasoline of course  
yeah  
and uh whether you know  
that's one way you know uh uh  
on air pollution i i i don't know if the automobiles are the biggest contributor or not really  
they've got catalytic converters  
everyone seem to have gone to that whether they last uh and do a good job  
and now that they the inspection systems are analyzing that uh  
well what do you think if you're in that you know if you're concerned about that  
i mean if you're you're you're knowledgeable on that  
oh well i'm not an expert  
i just had a little i've i've seen a little pollution in my time  
it's uh  
the the chemicals we were dealing with were uh a [raid] [repellent]  
and uh that was really quite dangerous  
i'm not certain that that was  
that that's really a pollution issue  
i think pollution issue is is uh is is the argument over over people catching uh things like uh respiratory disease  
well the you know  
that that's another [arguable] issue  
and i i've seen the uh uh uh  
assuming you can buy into global warming i  
well did you see carl [sagan] on sixty minutes on uh when he was talking about when if if the if the war started in in kuwait and they'd set those uh all  
uh it was it was it was interesting  
but uh i'm just curious what he has to say now that they've got them all lit  
yes  
and his argument was uh was that that you would see a uh a year with no summer   which actually happened  
and it it  
yes  
it actually happened  
uh it was a [volcano] [erupted]  
and it was high enough up  
but uh they had some people from the national [meteorological] center i think it was which is the national anyway research people  
and they said that the uh that the pollution would not go high enough  
and it's going to be interesting to see if carl [sagan] and his billions and billions of stars   may have once made a mistake  
but the the the general the opinion among among the uh [meteorologists] at uh  
i'm uh member of the american [meteorological] society  
and  
yeah  
i do  
but i'm uh i i did that in my  
no i'm a planner a production planner  
but i i i'm in the active reserves as a [weatherman]  
so  
uh i i keep up from time to time  
but what the the argument is that uh that uh maybe there isn't global warming and maybe there is  
but um if there is uh we probably could do something about it now  
and if there isn't if there isn't and we do some the right things i think  
how do you feel about about all this smog and stuff on cars  
well do you have an older car  
i i have been working on an older car  
but it  
yeah  
well i'm restoring one  
i'm not having any problem it's a seventy  
and the  
but did you have another  
you said you had another  
uh  
no  
i didn't see that that  
i know that the uh  
that's  
well that  
they called nuclear winner  
and and i suppose that's that's the ultimate uh pollution problem  
well it  
well the [chernobyl] accident uh  
actually um because the circulation budget as high as it went uh covered uh a fairly remarkable amount  
they did some [tracers]  
and they  
i i think it's drawn in uh  
i think gets in there  
i can't think of the other trace  
but i saw a a presentation on on that  
and they  
it went quite a long ways but i i i guess i can be a little sympathetic  
but you know there's some argument that in in in the blue grass of kentucky that the [smoky] mountains that that's the uh the pine trees giving off pollution  
and  
but the  
but when you when you get up in the morning in in dallas and and see all that haze from west texas   is that is that pollution  
well it  
that's the thing is that i think i think dallas really does have a problem in this  
the idea if we could get some cleaner fuel burning fuel  
the problem is is it's like los angeles  
people don't people don't want to use mass transit  
so  
but who wants to who wants to um ride a bus  
well my boss drives forty miles one way each day  
and one of the guys that works with me drives forty five miles  
and and they don't think it  
well i guess they do think something of it  
but um not even to you know  
you consider how much um  
but then you get into all these issues of of whether it it's the types of pollution and what it's doing to your lungs  
and   are we going to die of of respiratory  
so we all move out of the out of downtown  
so we get away from the the smog  
my my wife grew up in southern california  
and they moved out to the valley before los angeles uh when the valley was clean  
and now the valley is not  
and so people move out one more valley and  
yes yes   well do   general motors apparently has one that they're they're testing  
i think it's no it's alcohol vehicles that they're testing  
but they suppose  
huh  
well the road and track was talking about that this apparently general motors has some uh  
they apparently think they're close  
well there's still a lot of research  
i was over in in the research lab a couple i guess it's been about a month ago  
and saw this research it was a little light that says solar solar powered research  
yeah  
well do you work in that c building  
oh i'm at  
oh well i'm in i'm in the c building  
been there for all my life  
huh  
well that's been a  
i know the focal plain [array] is they were taking space to a long time  
well the problem is that gas at a dollar a gallon you know who wants to  
yeah  
i mean we want to not pollute  
but uh at a dollar a gallon uh it's hard to beat   the amount of energy you get from uh  
well i thought i saw an ad for volkswagen that had an alcohol  
they had one with spots on it and something  
i didn't go  
but  

it was showing they  
i mean uh  
an article  
no  
i didn't  
i didn't go  
so i  
they've done a lot  
well  
well they uh  
it's interesting though because my cars are older  
and so i didn't have to  
if you live in dallas county you have to have your have to have it checked  
and it's  
i had a friend with a [fiero] that uh they tried and tried and tried and had all kinds of terrible getting that [pinned]  
and so apparently  
well i um i haven't really lived in a lot of big cities  
i mean i'm living in dallas now  
plano is outside of dallas  
but um so i don't really have a lot of experience with air pollution  
but i know when i lived down in houston on the outskirts of houston there were some towns like pasadena that had oil refineries  
and um if you would drive by there like on your way to the beach or something   there would just be dumping this huge amounts of smoke   into the air  
and it always smelled really bad  
we know that that was really really really bad for the atmosphere  
what have you got up there  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh no  
sure  
yeah  
it's just i mean it's just so bad that there is just so much going into the air  
and   and the little bit you say that there putting in here and there and everywhere it all adds up  
plus all the problems in the middle east  
with all that smoke and  
yeah  
so it's just um why are we doing this to ourselves  
i just don't know  
but um i you know what really amazes me about like that pasadena area and the oil refineries   is that there would be houses and people living just really close to it  
i mean between the freeway and the oil [refinery] you would see a neighborhood  
and you just thought well it's obvious that there's a lot going up in the air there  
and what comes up must come down  
yes  
and and how if they have all of those um  
[toxicity] i mean it there's signs around saying how dangerous it is  
and here you are living  
that just doesn't make too much sense  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well um individual companies and things are so selfish  
and their desires to save a few dollars and and that  
they don't care about the environmental impact   that they make  
yes  
huh_uh  
well have you ever visited um like los angeles or any place that's ever it's kind of known that it has uh pollution in it's air  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
that's so awful  
well what about in new york  
i guess you've gone that way maybe  
pretty funny  
well i've been to new york  
i have relatives that direction  
we have  
it's um  
where you are  
is it close to [phoenixville] pennsylvania  
because i have family there  
and  
oh huh_uh  
it's pretty neat  
that's beautiful country up that way  
i know  
it's um very lush and pretty   up in the back in the east  
it's really  
well i'm thirty one  
seems kind of old to me  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yes  
that's really true  
and we all you know need to be willing to help pay a little bit like  
i've heard some people uh [grumble] about their uh cars passing their emission tests   and things  
and how they've had to how it's more expensive and things  
and i thought well it's so much better  
huh_uh  
oh you don't  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well i really think it must  
i think every  
i mean well think about how many automobiles there are  
and each is putting out  
like we have a car  
an older one of our cars is an older car  
and every time you start it from the tail pipe it makes a black spot   on the cement  
and you know that that is a sign  
yeah  
and that's all cars are doing that  
and it's really polluting the air  
huh_uh  
and it's also it's causing of lot of the real terrible suffering like cancer   and things  
we sure wouldn't want   so much more people suffering from that  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
pretty sad  
oh no  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
no  
no  
it's scary  
it's scary  
huh_uh  
it's really awful  
well i've really enjoyed the conversation  
it's helped me to think more about some issues that i need to be thinking more about  
huh_uh  
and it's instead of waiting until it directly affects me like you say   it's important to be involved ahead of time  
well you have a good day  
thank you  
bye bye  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well i i live out in the country  
so that part is good  
uh we're maybe one hundred miles from pittsburgh  
which has a lot of pollution from their plants  
and right now in our area were fighting against a toxic waste incinerator  
and uh it won't be too for from where we live  
and everybody really has been you know fighting against it because we we do not want it  
well we don't want one any place  
we would like the uh industry to do more to take care of the waste products before they turn to incineration because we feel that uh the small percentage that they're going to be putting into the air is too much  
you know   huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh that has to be terrible over there  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
breathing it we're breathing it all the time  
huh_uh  
no  
and i figure we're paying to take care of this toxic waste no matter who does it  
so   and they have shown some of the industries have been real good at uh uh doing their part in uh reducing the amount that they have  
uh they've reused some of it uh  
it can be recycled a lot of their things  
and that they've shown that it uh to begin with apparently it does cost more  
but once they get started it's really it saves them money in the end  
and it cuts down on the end product that has to be dealt with some other way  
and if they would all  
that's what that's what we want done  
is we want industry to take you know more responsibility in taking care of it  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
they're greedy  
it's money is what is  
it's it's the money  
they're making fantastic amounts on these things  
and uh even the incinerator the money and the income that they're going to make off this is you know just astronomical  
we've never been  
we went as far as as uh like las vegas   and yellow stone park  
we did go we should have gone the whole way over  
but we didn't  
but i understand that  
we have an aunt that lives out there  
and   when she was visiting here she would look up at the stars  
and she said how wonderful it was to be able to look into the sky and see some of the things that she saw  
she said they couldn't see those things out there   because of the smog and everything  
no  
never been in new york  
i don't want to go there  
have you been there  
oh  
um no  
i never heard of that one  
we're near pittsburgh clarion university  
it's it's kind of northwest part of pennsylvania  
huh_uh   you sound very young  
are you a young person  
thirty one  
you're you're young  
no  
you're young  
you have a lot of life yet  
and and these  
we have some people who say well this isn't going to affect me this air pollution  
uh older people  
or they think they're far enough away from something   that it's  
and they don't realize these things are going to affect everybody  
and if you're older it's not going to affect you that way  
you have grandchildren  
you have children uh  
nieces nephews whatever friends  
uh everybody is going to be affected by it  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
they say it has really made a difference though  
now see we don't have that here yet  
no  
we don't have that testing in that down here yet  
but they  
i have read that that that it has really helped where the problem is greater where the population is greater  
and that it has made a difference  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
something is coming out  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
if you have to put a price on it which is more valuable life or paying a little more  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
and like i said i think you have to pay for it no matter what you do you with it because it's industry  
we're paying industry to make the products  
and   we're helping pay for there making these end products that are   toxic waste  
then we have to pay for them to pay somebody to carry it away someplace  
then they put it in the dump some place  
and they find out well this dump doesn't work  
so we have to clean this up and move it someplace else  
we end up paying for it again  
now we're going to end up paying for it again by having it burned in these large [incinerators]  
and we're paying to have our air polluted and our water streams polluted  
or the  
where they want to put the one area they want to put the incinerator is right in the middle of the clarion the two water sheds that feed clarion river  
and you know it just boggles our mind that they can consider even putting it there because   if that water gets contaminated it will go on down to pittsburgh  
it will you know  
it affects so many people  
and it's just hard to think that they could allow them to do things like this  
huh_uh  
it really is  
it is really a concern  
so   huh_uh  
well you too  
huh_uh  
bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh i don't know  
there's a lot of air pollution  
um i think industries and companies provide a lot of it  
and with uh i guess with the oil burning over in kuwait and stuff that would have a lot of air pollution in it  
um i'm north of pittsburgh  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
um we have a couple we have like a steel mill and a couple refineries and stuff  
and i know there's a lot of air pollution going in there  
and like they they get fined whenever they do the air pollution  
but the fine is nothing you know  
it's like nothing to them  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my god  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
but i don't know what they can do to really prevent it you know  
like how  
what can they do about the oil burning over in kuwait  
what you know  
i mean they fine the industries  
but you know that doesn't seem to stop them there  
i don't know what else they can do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i  
yeah  
i just don't understand you know what else anyone can do about it  
i don't think it's something that people really think about either  
you know it's i mean it it should probably be a big issue you know because it's it's doing a lot of damage  
but i  
it's something you know  
i don't think many people really think about it because it's nothing they  
i don't think we really have too much control over it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
well i really don't know too much else about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we have tried  
i mean you know and um i i know where you know where a couple of the mills that have  
i know they put things on their stacks you know to filter the smoke and do all kinds of things  
but i mean every now and then it breaks you know  
and   and you just have smoke going out into the air for a day or two until you can get it fixed  
and so so you know it's something we we have tried to help  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
well  
uh_huh  
it's been nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
well discussing air pollution today i guess  
um uh well give me your first [impressions]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh puts a whole  
yeah  
gets a whole new picture to what real air pollution can be  
but uh that stuff going on over there  
what what uh what part of pennsylvania are you in  
okay  
okay  
so it's it's amazing too you know with that with the oil wells burning over there that's the exact same stuff that's coming out of cars every day just in uh just in a little different grade i guess  
but uh in dallas we've got we've just uh brought in a whole new set of requirements on inspections and things like that for cars because uh people just don't use mass transit and stuff in dallas  
everybody loves their car  
and you see an awful lot of uh one person vehicles on the road on during rush hours  
that seems to be our biggest problem down here  
um you know there's uh there's a lot of industry around  
but uh it's not it's  
any pollution that industry's dumping around here is not going into the air  
it's typically water type situation  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's   like like two hours of output or something like that  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
i a uh i grew up in south dakota  
so i was never i was never exposed   to anything of of the of the sort  
um there were always e p a people and what not were always telling us that uh farm chemicals and what not were destroying our water system and all that  
but we just we just never saw the results  
there was there was dust in the air during planting seasons and what not  
but that that was all we ever saw  
and then five years ago i moved to dallas  
and i suddenly started to understand what burning eyes and all that stuff is about that i'd always heard about  
it uh it's it gets it's real depressing  
in the morning sometime you can tell if it's a good day or a bad day by uh how far out from downtown uh you can be on the road and still not see it  
and uh yeah  
i mean it's not  
i don't think dallas is considered uh a real bad place for air pollution  
but you you can tell you can tell the differences in the days when it's when the haze is kind of [yellowish] gray instead of just being a a foggy [misty] color  
and uh it it's a little it's a little disappointing sometimes you start to realize what you're breathing  
right  
right  
it it's that there really isn't a whole lot  
it's one of those uh it's one of those things that if they do a little bit and uh and you know every little bit does help  
i do believe that  
um but i also believe that the earth is a kind of a self regulating system  
and uh it will clean itself up eventually  
it  
the whole idea is not to not to push the limit too hard i guess  
let the you know let the natural natural systems take care of the problem as much as possible  
uh_huh  
right  
and it's one of those things  
it it's so hard to measure what what the damage is  
it's kind of like oh  
i guess it's kind of like kind of like cigarette smoking you know  
it it could go on for years and years until they start to see some results and people can actually actually say yeah it's it's it's doing doing some damage   and something's got to be done  
um there's you know there's a lot of things like that  
it  
you can uh you can pound on something for a long time before it finally breaks  
but until it breaks you don't really know that there you were doing anything to it  
but uh  
yeah  
well that's that's  
i think we both agree it's it's one of those deals that uh  
i just think there's a lot of other problems right now  
and uh we've done a lot to take care of it  
and uh  
oh sure  
sure  
oh there's no doubt about it  
i don't know if you ever happened to see some of the like twenty twenty and what not about [rumania] and east germany when they first got pictures out of there   about how some of their systems had been running for twenty and thirty years  
and uh you know they had absolutely no regulations no controls whatsoever  
and they had destroyed entire forests and what not just because the air was so polluted  
that's that's the kind of things that uh you don't see in this country  
and that's that's why i think that you know it's  
i don't know if you can ever do enough  
but uh i think it's all relative to the to the time and place  
and i think right now it's it's pretty much under control  
all righty  
well you bet  
bye  
so well this is an appropriate topic the day after earth day  
so  
um well what do you think is uh the pollutants the main pollutants in the air  
yeah  
well that's me too  
after um  
on channel thirteen uh they had some some programs the day before  
and i'm not sure that about yesterday we didn't really watch it too much yesterday  
but the day before they had a lot of programs about the environment and you know how we're affecting the earth and things by what we do   as the people  
and and they mentioned sulfur and carbon dioxide a lot  
and that actually um as our population increases and you know our of course our our cars you know our number of cars increase per the population that's the problem but also like you said the industry pollution  
and you know they're they're regulation that's placed on them is i mean it's better than it used to be  
but it's incredible that they still don't have you know they don't they're not made to regulate the amount of pollutants that they put into the air  
you know i i just  
i can't stand that  
and i know for a fact that they get away with a lot that  
you know they're supposed to be regulated because we have a we have a plant i don't know about t i but we have a plant uh a pillsbury plant   in in a town [adjacent] to ours  
and i know people that work there that  
of course you wouldn't think pillsbury would put out certain chemicals  
but they put out toxic chemicals there just in some of the um what they do uh to uh make their dough and to   clean out the flour and stuff like that  
yeah  
i mean it's incredible  
and um they said that they're you know they have a little creek that runs by them  
and some of the people that work there have told me that when they have [inspectors] coming they you know shut down everything  
and they clean up their act but on a normal basis that they're that they're dumping things   that they're not supposed to be dumping  
and i'm like if they're getting away with it   can you imagine  
that's a that's a pillsbury plant  
i can't imagine plants  
yeah  
they have chemicals that they use to [refine] their [flours] with and stuff   you know to to break the [flours] down  
and then they they also do testing there  
and i don't  
you know when you consider you know it's probably not radioactive  
but toxic can be can be anything that's uh classified that can damage the earth  
so there could be a lot of things that they could put you know that chemical wise that they use to uh that they are testing with   that they're dumping  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think they do the packaging at this plant  
but they do they do a lot of research  
and they do um they do do a lot of the [refining] up there  
or  
i'm not really  
what's it called when you do flour  
i'm not  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but  
i mean you think about it it you know  
it's probably a lot easier to detect things that go into the ground than it is maybe to just  
i'm not really sure  
but i would think it would be easier to detect those things because you could detect them down or stream or such  
or you can you can you know do uh testing on the ground itself at that point  
but when they pollute into the air and you've got you know and you've got movement through the air it's going to move a lot of that off  
so i don't see you know how they can do some of the  
unless it just hangs there like in places where it's a lot of pollution you know like in los angeles or or the bigger cities where it it tends to get stuck there  
you know that you have a lot more particles in the air   you know per per uh per particles in the surrounding community because it's not moved away  
but um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i know out in some  
i'm not sure  
i can't remember the name of the county  
it's it's where [stillwater] is or   sweet  
no  
i'm not sure  
i know it  
i think it's uh  
i know we have a piece property there  
it's called [dublin]  
it's in [dublin] texas  
i'm not really sure what the county  
it's stephen  
no  
[stephenville]  
okay  
where [stephenville's] at   they've had a lot of problems because they've um introduced a lot of [dairies] there  
so they have a lot of cattle in the area  
i mean they've got like per per uh per lot  
you know they've got like a lot of head of cattle because [dairies] they don't  
it's not like it was a big ranch where they let the cow roam around free  
they've got to have them there to be able to milk them  
and they  
and i read in this article i couldn't believe it where you know like one cow produces like a day produces like a hundred or so pounds of manure  
one cow  
i was like my god  
and they  
and this thing says that that you know people think well cow manure is good for fertilizer  
but when you get that much manure it says it becomes a real problem because it's not it's not  
when you know you buy cow manure at the store they've added stuff to it  
and they've added [humus] and stuff that   breaks it down  
and and this and this article said that they've got a real problem that um you've got toxins and and uh bacteria in the manure that is  
what it's doing is it's going through uh  
they don't have a very deep um  
you know they're water   they're natural water uh  
i forget what that's called with you know  
it's like a spring spring water  
but it's below the surface  
it's not very far down  
and all this stuff is [seeping] through to the water  
and they're like they're afraid that you know within a certain amount of years that it's they're they're water in that town will be totally polluted  
and they won't be able to have any drinking water because they will have um polluted completely polluted so that they're you know there's too many toxins and [bacterial] growth  
and i'm like my god you know   just from that one you know just from them introducing dairy farms   in that one county  
no  
not when you figure  
i didn't realize a cow one cow produces that much manure  
and they were talking like   thousands of cows you know   they were talking thousands cows in one little tiny area  
you  
well they are evidently  
but um i mean evidently a normal cow produces that much too  
but they're just so spread out on ranches and stuff that it's not you know a problem  
but when they get them in these tiny little areas you know and they've got a real big problem  
and they they said that that what they were doing was scraping it with [bulldozers] and stuff and taking it to   uh these like ponds that they had to filter it with  
but the ponds because they've had so much rain in the past few years they just   overflow  
and they overflow into the the creeks and stuff in the area  
so that just creates  
you know there there's  
and oh it was just disgusting  
it said the creeks will foam  
people people stand outside their houses and their watch the creeks foam brown and all  
and i'm just like oh my gosh  
and the smell is really bad they  
yeah  
but i i don't know  
it really frightens me though as far as the when you think about the you know thinking of just air pollution itself  
and then and channel thirteen they're really um [emphasizing] the problem with acid rain you know  
if we if we keep putting that stuff into the air and and you know if we keep creating the problem and not doing anything about it that it's really going to be a problem for um just the the earth you know what the earth is receiving back you know   because how can you tell where it's going to come down at  
yeah  
the rain forest and all  
yeah  
well they do because what is it carbon dioxide   they use that where we can't [synthesize] it  
and they're [synthesizing] it for us  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we just have to  
i don't know personally you know  
i suppose you know if you just make sure your car is   is working properly  
and  
you know they're  
nowadays they have the emission controls on them  
but uh i think the only the main thing is just keep on the your legislators back you know as far as  
seems like they've only just really started as far as the environment saying   okay we're really going to get involved  
it it's really becoming a problem  
by the year two thousand there will  
what what are we going to have  
what kind of results are we going to have for the environment  
and and what will we  
right  
i have trouble with the chemical plants and things like that i just uh i think they put off so much  
and they're not regulated enough  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
really  
huh  
oh  
right  
i wouldn't have thought that pillsbury could would the i mean or even had you know well  
those chemicals would not  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
you know like in   in packaging  
and uh you know just goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
uh only thing i can think is [bleaching]  
but i mean i   i don't know what's how they do the flour  
but um we we're on the southwest side of houston  
we don't have that much as far as uh [aiming] in the plants over on this uh the east side does  
we've got [imperial] sugar  
but uh and they're you know they're right there on the creek also  
and uh they've been there for years  
and uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know that  
i worry every now and then  
we're still on a well water  
we're not on city water  
and i think well what if somebody's dumped something back there in the and no one knows about it and you know it [sinked] in through the ground and all that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
it will  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the  
right  
right  
yeah  
and the the ground will filter some of it but not all of it  
these are well fed  
these are  
good grief these are well fed cows uh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh now that's bad  
oh i was going to say the air pollution alone there just from a hundred pounds of cow manure was going to be bad  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
and then cutting the trees you know that bothers me  
as far as you know the  
yes  
uh we've been wanting to  
well not me  
but uh it's been or suggested that we cut a few of the trees down here  
i'm like no  
you know for what's cut down here you know more will be cut down someplace else  
and it will just take that longer to grow back  
and trees help so that uh  
i don't  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
believe me it's just so much better  
so uh yeah  
i knew  
i think there's lots that be that could be done to to improve how things are done now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
all right  
do you have a bunch of factories and stuff out there  
the uh  
oh you mean   for like smog and stuff  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
what do you think of that uh the greenhouse effect that's going on  
yeah  
that's causing the hole in the ozone  
uh_huh  
it it is scary though isn't it  
right  
well all right  
north carolina  
that's up there by kentucky isn't it  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
well kentucky's next to virginia i'm pretty sure  
well i'm from kentucky  
i should know  
but   i don't  
i'm sorry  
but kentucky we use to have severe i mean just real cold cold winters  
and we'd have three and four feet of snow  
course here in texas they don't have snow  
they don't know what snow is  
they freak out when there's snow on the ground  
oh amarillo  
well that's close to here  
how long have you been in raleigh  
well how old are you  
okay  
well we're the same age  
yeah  
i forget my age all the time  
so that's okay  
it's i think it's just something that goes with the territory  
but to me texas see and kentucky we had to have ice on the ground for them to close school  
okay  
in texas i'm serious if it gets cold and it looks like it's going to rain i i swear they close everything down  
i just laugh  
i mean i do  
they get i mean  
and traffic [slows] down to nothing  
oh well no  
i'm from the north  
that's why i said we in kentucky we  
i don't know  
you just get used to the weather  
and of course the people down in south they they're not used to cold weather and stuff  
and uh   it just  
i don't know  
i just laugh  
every time they have a every time they have snow   on the ground everything's closed up  
and you know you can have snow on the ground and not be slick on the road  
but uh  
no  
not really  
i mean not to see it  
now of course there's you know t i is here oscar mayer  
and there is a few factories  
but i don't see much pollution going on  
uh_huh  
well see they have that um what is it a test or something like that they call it  
and uh   that's supposed to cut down on it  
yeah  
school buses and the   commercial buses  
yeah  
well they're burning that diesel fuel is what it is  
and uh it it gets bad  
uh_huh  
well that's a good idea  
well uh the you know pregnant women aren't supposed to walk along a highway   because of that smoke fumes  
when i was pregnant with my first little boy i had read it  
because back then because i was walking back and forth  
well not back and forth  
i was walking home from uh the college i was going to   in kentucky  
and i was having to walk along the highway  
it was just one day a week  
but it was in  
i i have no sense of smell  
so i couldn't smell this  
but it would make me sick  
and i'd be real tired anyway   just from walking   along the highway  
but  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
all the exhaust uh  
well that was four years ago too  
it's probably a lot worse now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you uh smoke  
yeah  
it's kind of  
yeah  
because you do smoke one a day  
um uh  
for the air pollution  
huh  
but they  
i don't hear much about it down here  
course texas we don't have a bunch of pollution  
but too we've got that air coming in off the coast  
and you know it'd blow it up north  
so maybe that's part of the reason it's not so bad down here  
but no  
it would seem like it would be the same way in on the california coastline wouldn't it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but they usually have that everywhere because of the humidity especially  
i think they do that for most everybody  
especially it's usually for the young children and the older the old people   older old people  
it is  
oh  
oh well this is pretty wooded area down here  
so  
in a lot of parts  
yeah  
i know texas is supposed to be flat  
but they've got you know down by the denison dam   there's a lot of uh  
they do  
they live close then  
in durant oklahoma  
you go where uh  
you go to visit them  
oh  
yeah  
well down by lake texoma there's a bunch of wooded area  
this  
but but kentucky's beautiful  
they've got trees  
and trees are supposed to you know [purify]  
you know what the best indoor [purifying] plant is for smoke and stuff  
it's a [philodendron]  
it's supposed to filter the air for you in your home  
i had one  
my husband bought it for me when my daughter was born three months four months ago  
yeah  
i do  
yeah  
i do  
yeah  
i did  
i couldn't make myself quit  
i did cut down a lot  
i got i i've got one vice  
and smoke is smoking is it  
i don't i don't drink  
and i try not to [cuss]  
and i do i do very little  
and smoking i just i got in the habit of it when i was about thirteen  
yeah  
we're down here at the bible belt aren't we  
uh i wasn't saved until i got down here  
and people down here are just  
there's so many christians  
and it's so different from kentucky  
but  
um i worked at t i for a while  
but then my brother in law works there  
and he got me into it  
how'd you get into it  
well it's fun  
i like talking to new people  
and i half the time well a couple of times i've been interrupted by my little girl  
i've had to hang up and stuff  
but i enjoy it  
i talked to people from well what carolina now   up in uh boston and new york  
well boston is new york isn't it  
no  
boston massachusetts  
but i've talked to people in new york  
but i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
because i guess it's because t i down here  
with boston i love their accent  
i do  
i love the boston accent  
i met a girl from boston one time  
my husband was in the service  
so we went from kentucky to louisiana   down here to texas  
and his family's   down here  
we're out of the service now  
yeah  
he got out of it his unit right after panama  
we went to he went to panama   when noriega was doing all that  
and uh he  
um we've got quite a few actually  
what we're more concerned with is the inner pollution in the city  
um we've actually had some warnings in uh raleigh   uh on air pollution  
uh_huh  
because of there so many cars  
and we have a belt line around raleigh where we're trying to [divert] traffic  
and um you know it's still it's just surrounding the city  
and you can actually see it  
there's a couple of uh tall buildings   in raleigh  
and and you can actually you know  
they're [blurred]  
they're even dark  
and what it is is the pollution  
well i guess that's the [fluorocarbons]  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's very serious  
i mean we can we're even feeling the effects of the weather from uh uh the shift in the jet stream  
oh yeah  
i mean uh the last two uh years our winters have been absolutely nothing  
i mean maybe one snow  
kentucky  
uh north carolina is all the way on the east coast  
it's further west than georgia  
it's uh right below virginia  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
originally i'm from texas  
so i mean amarillo  
so uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
real close  
um i've been out of texas about ten years  
oh twenty uh seven  
i almost forgot my age  
oh really  
um  
uh_huh  
actually they've been doing the same thing here  
it's you know it's kind of funny  
they um i guess [northerners] are different  
but even uh north [carolinians] they don't know how to handle cold weather  
uh_huh  
that's true  
do you all have much pollution there  
uh_huh  
well you know what irks me is these cars that are driving down the road  
and you have that black smoke coming from their tail pipe  
uh_huh  
well  
supposedly that's supposed to catch it  
but i'll tell you what  
and even these buses oh lord it real bad these buses in raleigh  
oh yeah  
i mean school buses are notorious  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well you know what they've started doing is is instead of the tail pipes being at the bottom of those buses   they've started putting them up at the top  
and that way it gets above um other cars on the road  
and uh it really does make a difference although it it settles you know  
even if it's at the top and it's a lot of black smoke coming out it still settles  
and and you know if you're going to be jogging on the side of the road that's that's even more miserable  
i would i'd have to go out to the country to jog  
no  
i didn't know that  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
golly that's that's bad  
oh i'm sure  
well they um you can really feel it you know in your breathing even normal people  
and if you're older um i mean you can really deplete your [oxygen]  
and it'll you know pass out  
and it's you know it's killed several people  
um actually i'm a very i just smoke one in the evening if that  
so i'm a very very light smoker  
it was kind of funny  
they were doing some uh ozone testing and uh the e p a  
and they were just screening some candidates  
and i don't think i'd ever you know do that  
but they uh asked me if i was a smoker  
and i didn't fit into the [smoker's] category  
and i didn't fit into the [nonsmoker's] category um  
it was you know i was just one of those  
yeah  
in between people  
so that kind of threw them off  
but they're doing a lot of research here uh the e p a  
for ozone and oh yeah all that  
they're they're real big into it  
they've got research triangle park here  
and they're you know they're just doing a lot of uh lot of stuff  
huh_uh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh i think i would hate to live in california the smog there  
i mean i can't believe they have warnings here which it it's mainly just when it gets real real hot  
really  
well that's kind of good to know  
because i thought lord i thought i lived in a halfway decent area  
um  
uh_huh  
well you ought to come to north carolina  
it's a big change  
yeah  
there was no trees where i was from in amarillo  
and here they've got the mountains the beach the trees you know  
it's   they've got streams rivers ponds  
it's really pretty here  
is it  
uh_huh  
sherman and denison  
do you know my grandparents live in durant  
yeah  
yeah  
real close  
i go there  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
we used to go fishing in lake texoma  
huh_uh  
oh really  
well i'm going to have to get some  
uh_huh  
do you smoke  
do you  
did you smoke when you when you were pregnant  
well  
i mean i can understand that actually  
well  
yeah  
well one thing i miss is uh is the people from texas are are you know  
i miss their morals their values and everything  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
how'd you get involved in this research  
oh i see  
huh  
um i i was taking a voice i o class and um and actually doing some research  
and so they told me about this project  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh no  
boston's above  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
i had one call actually from charlotte north carolina and virginia and um  
i can't remember where all  
from up north like you said  
i think one was from boston  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i bet you're glad  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
um what do you think the major cause of air pollution or at least in the boston areas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
um that isn't the same in the washington area because we don't have any major um industry except for uh government and services  
and the the transportation situation is such that uh all the car pollution is is absolutely awful  
um also the worth of the [hub] of three [airports]  
in this general area there is uh national dulles and then uh baltimore washington  
and it  
interestingly some of the information i've been reading [indicates] that the amount of air pollution from uh uh airplanes is extraordinary  
yeah  
and that's always something that you know you just don't real you don't think about  
but the uh  
apparently the air pollution and the fact that it's delivered right up in high [altitudes]   is a very significant factor  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
society   has especially recently  
i mean you know what it's like here  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we just had the  
that's right  
so solutions to this   would be  
i i  
you know improved  
well i guess the the to me the first thing is i wish society would get as upset about this as you do get getting people upset about animal rights  
i mean this is so so basic  
it's human rights in the sense  
but uh in terms of demanding it's just not caused  
but demanding that uh we can spend so much money on certain things but that research really be directed toward um improvement of polluting vehicles and not just cars but also buses um planes that something can be done i i can't imagine that well  
if we can't send people to the moon   that we can't improve these things  
converter  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that for buses  
that's right  
well and also to make it economically feasible   uh and also in buses  
i don't know if you ever got caught in a traffic jam behind a bus  
that you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but even of course in the longer term just to get away from fossil fuels  
i mean i'm i'm thinking of research in that direction rather than  
we we've taken the intermediate step  
but i don't think   fossil fuels are the answer  
uh_huh  
yes  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't throw the baby out with the bath water   and condemning nuclear use  
yeah  
yeah  
but with the pollution issue uh fossil fuel is not the way to go anyway  
uh so you've to you've got to look elsewhere  
so uh but it is something that's a little frightening  
and in fact well i  
within our family we have said  
my husband  
i have two sons uh well  
one is already in college in new england  
and the other will be going in september  
and we just feel that when we leave uh this area we're going north not south  
uh i like the mentality north  
and i also like the [fresher] air up there  
so i mean that's the way we will be going  
but um so i i'd be interested in having spoken with somebody also from the far west on this issue to see how they their attitudes are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the smog and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean even california was notorious for its smog years ago   before it even was an issue   out here  
well that that's   that's that's personal air pollution  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
well i i definitely advance that  
well listen i enjoyed speaking with you  
and let's hope some there are other people that feel the same way  
you're welcome  
bye bye  
well the the the major cause it seems up here is  
i live right on the ocean  
so it's kind of hard for me to tell what would happen if i lived in some of the valleys inland  
but the major cause here and we always seem to and it seems to be [validated] by the press is the car pollution  
we don't have too much industrial pollution  
uh car pollution seems to be the one and only thing that that i can really put my finger on here  
is that so  
i didn't know that  
well most people talk about the noise pollution from airplanes rather than the air pollution  
yeah  
i would think so  
you know uh i guess it talked about all types of pollution  
i happen to just read something the other day at least in the boston paper there were three things that that come to note  
one is that the carbon [fluorides] that are uh being released into the atmosphere are causing even a larger hole in the southern hemisphere in the ozone layer  
and again  
and now they've located another one or rather an expanding one in the northern hemisphere  
so  
so i'm quite concerned  
i don't think it's involved any longer with with uh hair sprays or those  
no  
i think it's now is what uh from what i understand it's air conditioning units  
and and   we certainly turned into an air conditioned   society  
yeah  
i know in florida there's no place you go that isn't air conditioned  
and i do quite a bit of business in washington  
and  
oh yeah  
it's quite  
is is the  
it's really out of the norm not to find something that isn't air conditioned  
and  
and i guess refrigerators   are the same way  
they release that  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well i i  
yeah  
no  
i think that it can be done simply because uh uh we've we've  
every car now in america that's been produced for the past fifteen years has what they call a catalytic converter  
and no lead gas was came to the pumps  
and and that's been done  
there's the lead pollution has that problem essentially i guess because it was at crisis [proportions] was   was [licked]  
and i think that there are there are solutions  
certainly we don't even need a need a research anymore  
it's just a matter of passing the law  
and passing the law depends on how heavy the car industry the automobile lobby is  
that's right  
that's right  
oh yeah well  
that that the the smell is awful  
and but you know i was reading the other day not to go on with this but that   diesel fumes actually have less pollutants in them than gasoline fumes  
so i guess you're better off sitting behind a bus than a car although i can never i could never uh really rationalize that while i was sitting there  
yeah  
well we you know  
up here in new england uh where i've  
right close to where i live is the [seabrook] nucleus site which is   practically a you know [guerilla] war up here   went on for years  
uh my daughters [marched] in the uh uh against the [seabrook]  
and i kind of uh  
my feelings were that we needed this bridge to   to uh to jump from whatever it was going to be from fossil fuel to whatever it was going to be  
yeah  
unfortunately though i think the oil companies have [lied] to us for years  
so we really don't know whether there's enough fossil fuel left  
or there isn't  
and uh and uh  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
that's right  
yeah  
well since since texas and louisiana and uh california that in that [ranking] order the worst pollutants in america  
i mean i read that the other day  
i mean louisiana for a small state it was amazing  
but it's the industrial pollution i should imagine  
and california seems to be taking steps  
i mean you you read about the the fairly   fairly stiff laws they put in on cars now they're they're enforcing  
but uh again uh that didn't occur without a crisis  
nothing will occur i guess without a crisis  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
well the greatest thing that happened to pollution in the last couple of years as far as i'm concerned is the no smoking rules   on airplanes and in restaurants  
and it it really is a pleasure for me although i guess smokers don't think that  
but that   to me was pollution  
that was its most personal   personal uh pollution that i can think of  
surely  
something happen  
right on  
thank you  
bye bye  
uh we are to discuss air pollution and uh what we think the causes are  
and i probably would uh target uh   industry as being number one [polluter]  
well vehicles  
and and  
yes  
right  
because uh there's a lot of commercial vehicles out there   especially those the big rigs like the [busses] and um   the big   uh eighteen [wheelers] and so forth  
i think they would generate probably uh one of them would probably generate enough for three cars  
but that's not  
and i think it can be resolved if uh if they really let go with   the technology that they have at uh at their hand  
and they haven't released it yet  
i think there's a lot of hold back uh because   of uh-oh priorities that they have   you know  
and uh it's  
you have some children  
oh okay  
do you have do you watch children  
or do you  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
um is there anything  
well temporarily they do  
then we get out of that phase   soon enough  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
well i know uh uh in michigan uh the way they used to take care of the trash is they would [incinerate] it  
and the fumes from the incineration was a terrible [pollutant] to the air  
and um of course now  
no  
and when they  
and you bury it  
and it's not gone either because it has [untold] ramifications  
and uh   and it gets into into people   you know which is uh the the most important um resource that we have is people  
and they're and they're destroying us  
they   really are  
so i think the [cockroach] will evolve uh safely  
so they say  
yes  
but there's not enough  
and we need expert cooperation  
yeah  
education of the   education of the people is primary i would think  
and uh and we're hard to teach  
we are hard to teach  
absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
yes  
uh of course uh we would like to see it [accelerated] because uh of the critical nature of it  
the the learning of it and the  
just to um think that way we have to be in that thought pattern and able to um motivate ourselves to um uh do what is right for the atmosphere  
um i think we're all contributors  
i mean every human being that lives is a contributor   to pollution  
so   we just um  
uh_huh  
well hopefully it can be resolved within a shorter time frame than we have seen it done in the past   that the time frame for cleaning up our air and our and our um land you know which uh we get our [nutrients] from  
you know i mean   everything goes back to the land  
so um it's just um very critical i think at this point to   uh get that through to the people and get us educated  
uh_huh  
i i don't know if they offer classes in uh the uh in the grade school   uh uh [subjecting]  
in science  
okay  
what grade level would that be  
would that be um perhaps   the first grade level which would be  
well i mean are they starting though at at with the children that are so  
their little minds are like [sponges]  
and they can really   uh relate to that  
target stores  
oh okay  
okay  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
help fight the pollution  
oh that's wonderful  
well i'm sure that uh perhaps they're the leaders you know  
and other will others will pick up on their example and carry it uh further  
you know because uh thoughts are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's probably a major one  
i think uh individually uh just by the vast number of people there are there's i think cars are also a major contributor to it  
yeah  
vehicles  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just a minute i'm on the phone  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it  
yes  
i have i have five in the kitchen at the moment  
you need to shut the door please  
shut the door right now  
we have the air conditioner running  
what do you need  
hurry  
i'm on the phone  
yes  
you may  
and they keep turning the tape recorder up besides  
um i have three of my own  
and i have uh two that i'm tending for the summer   off and on  
so  
they cause more noise pollution than air pollution  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
but um i think another  
you can tell when you go around cities you can smell specific things from from specific industries  
i remember being  
i i grew up in new jersey  
and uh i can remember the smell of [newark] [vividly]  
and it's the type of industry you know which obviously if you can smell it it's in the air  
yeah  
well people think you burn it it's gone  
but it's not gone  
uh_huh  
then it just gets into the soil and into the water  
yeah  
yeah  
we really have to do more  
i think we've got to do more with the recycling  
that's  
i'm i'm really glad to see that there's more of that happening  
yeah  
well it's a  
we're getting  
at least they're starting you know  
so at least they're moving that direction  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
it's going to it's probably going to be a generation or two before   before it's really going   very well because now the adults are more aware of it  
and the children are being taught in the schools more it'll be you know on down the road this is going to be passed on which is good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you're right  
education is a big thing   you know  
and as we educate them individually what they can do people become more aware of the things in industry too that that are causing problems  
and and i think that they'll they'll work towards solving those problems more too um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just a minute and i'll turn it up  
i'll turn it up in a minute honey when i'm done  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think science has come a long way to making it so that it's possible to find ways to solve the problem  
um  
i think they teach it a lot in science  
yeah  
i would think that that's where it would come through  
i   i think they're kind of getting it in all different grades  
yeah  
i think they are starting probably in the first grade  
they're you know they're hearing somewhat about it  
um i know uh target has their program to make kids more aware of it  
and  
yeah  
they've got if you go in the [entrance] they've got uh stands usually where they have um little uh kind of a little newspaper thing   that the kids can read  
and   and they can form a a group to um  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well i i know it's it's a hard problem to solve because you you know like mcdonald's has changed back and forth between paper and foam and that kind of thing  
and they do all these studies on which ones pollute more  
and then there's the paper and plastic bag question  
okay um  
in plano  
yes  
where do you live  
oh okay  
huh  
um i was trying to think uh  
something we were watching the other day  
and they were doing an [overview] of los angeles uh from an area that was up higher  
and you literally could see the band of smog  
that uh  
i've never been out there  
but   it was it was quite evident that   it was a real brown area  
and  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yes  
well i know uh that's been the concern in europe  
they hadn't  
uh we have friends in germany and uh have family that live near the black forest area  
and large areas of the forest are being hurt from the cars because when we uh switched to the unleaded gas and and had the emission control advice uh devices required on the cars uh  
that's something that europe didn't do right away  
and now they're doing that  
and i guess it started in the last few years because they have found that in that particular part of the country that's the only pollution that's been there  
it's not an area that is industry  
but they were losing a lot of uh trees and a lot of  
um i guess from from something that the car was uh was giving  
yes  
and  
yes  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
i i get that sometimes um  
my line gets some static  
i don't know why  
well i know it's um  
we did have a solar water heater when we lived in houston  
and uh oddly enough i thought our part of the country was ideal  
oh i don't know what to  
usually it's the other phone i have trouble with  
it must just   be on the line  
can you hear me  
okay  
i don't know what uh i i don't know what the problem is  
but uh when we lived in houston we had a solar water heater  
and   we had thought this part of the country would be ideal for solar homes and solar energy  
and we have enough clouds that uh there are other areas that would be better suited  
that surprised me because i think   we have a tremendous amount of um sunny days  
and and it  
yes  
it can be used  
and it can help  
but uh that was a problem that they were still working on  
but  
well i  
yes  
yes  
uh i hope so  
well i do think um  
i mean you've already mentioned several things i think uh just the change in attitude and the fact that more people are aware there is a problem and more people are interested in uh  
yes  
yes  
well   and and for the future generations too uh  
yes  

where do you live  
in plano  
in dallas  
uh the air pollution isn't too bad in our area  
so we're very fortunate   but i know in some areas it's really it it really is bad  
i haven't either  
uh_huh  
well i think it would be terrible to live in an area like that  
and unfortunately i think there are a lot of areas that are that that bad  
particularly in the areas where there are industries uh where they are burning a lot of coal   and oil   up more up north i guess uh  
i think it's a bigger problem with the car pollution anti pollution devices  
i think uh air isn't as bad it once was from the cars because we certainly have plenty of cars in our area  
from acid rain  
i think it gives off uh in the emissions it gives off [gases] which combine up in the atmosphere uh and form a a weak acid  
it just makes the rain fall on the acid side  
and after a period of time i think that [accumulates] in uh trees because they take it up through their roots as well as it landing on the leaves on [surfaces]  
like you've seen what it's done to buildings even   where it's really bad  
what's interesting several years ago i took a course uh on uh well  
it was actually it was put on by the power companies and about the various sources of energy and how much pollution there was  
and there wasn't from various kinds of of energy  
and uh at that point in time one person that was a speaker brought up the topic of acid rain  
and it was kind of pooh [poohed] you know  
oh you're making a mountain out of a [molehill] kind of thing  
and it's turned out that that's been very true what he was [forecasting] about the [accumulation] of of the pollutants in the air and the acid rain and what it would do to [foliage]  
so it's kind of interesting the change in perspective from when i took that course  
now a lot of people are really afraid of nuclear  
uh i'm not afraid of nuclear having had that course because of how the nuclear that uh they use is not bomb quality  
and we're so strict with all our controls in the united states the chances of of an accident are slight  
and it doesn't pollute the air at all  
it's safer to be around a nuclear plant then it is to be around a coal plant  
many more deaths have occurred in and dealing with coal plants then ever around nuclear plants  
it's kind of funny because people are just [petrified] at least some are at the thought of nuclear  
so i don't know  
in europe there's a lot of dependency on nuclear power  
and they recycle the fuel  
and then instead of of  
some people are really afraid to recycle the fuel because they're afraid it could become uh bomb quality  
but that's the only sensible thing to do is recycle and reuse the fuel and not store it down in the ground as far as i'm concerned where it could eventually perhaps there's some problem uh pollute the [groundwater]  
so i don't know what the answer is  
the best answer of course would be solar or uh fusion or something clean  
well we've got a problem on the line don't we  
uh_huh  
but uh solar of course would be the clean the [cleanest]  
i can't hear you at all for all this static  
now i can again  
uh_huh     uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it it's still got a long way to go  
it's just you know a possible solution   in the future i think maybe to help in some ways  
it may not in all ways  
maybe they'll come up with fusion you know be able to control it  
i don't know how long that'll take  
but one of these days  
because that's perfectly clean  
it's just we can't control it  
right now it takes more energy to cause fusion to occur then you get out  
so it isn't not at all  
and you can't control it unless you gotten a huge [electromagnetic] field  
so that's not going to work at least not now  
but uh who knows what the future will hold uh as far as energy goes  
i i think with solving some of the energy future energy problems we'll probably solve some of the pollution problems as well  
i do to  
i like to be [optimistic]  
i don't like to be [pessimistic] about these things  
we have one earth   to live on  
and we got to take care of it  
uh_huh  
i've noticed students are are much more you know young young people are much more receptive to ideas about the environment   and protecting the earth  
and so if we can raise it uh you know generations with those concerns we'll solve a lot of our problems  
i'm afraid  
i know i was part of the me generation where they didn't so many of them didn't people didn't care  
you know  
it's whatever you know  
recycle well if it's a problem forget that  
uh not throw the trash out the car window  
and leave it in the car and then throw it away  
how horrible you know  
now i've always done those kinds of things because i just didn't like messes  
and  
okay  
and i'm up in wisconsin  
uh my name is terry  
and uh in the small town we don't  
but uh we're not that far from the city where there's tons of pollution  
okay  
i'll go ahead and start recording that  
okay um  
just in particular here in the twin cities we have a lot of big corporations  
and um   i'm sure there's a lot of pollution  
we uh  
before moving to wisconsin lived across from where they were um [gravel] pits   and also where they were making tar  
and so we would occasionally if the wind was blowing the right direction would get the smell of tar  
and   it would uh  
smell the continuous  
you knew that you were also breathing that into your lungs  
so   and it was like miles away  
but just the idea of having that come across the way it did in the wind   kind of made you know that there was a lot of pollution  
and that was just one small corporation that was doing the pollution of that  
but   also um where we also lived too it was very close to a highway  
so got a lot of fumes from uh trucks   and cars  
and you would literally see the pollution on your furniture  
i mean it was   on your tables  
you would dust every day  
and it was dirty um type of dust  
i mean it wasn't the typical dust that you get way out in the country   um  
for  
i live in a small um town now quite a ways from the twin cities about an hour away  
and i may dust once a week  
and that's all it needs versus every day when i lived in the city  
so  
oh yeah  
it it comes right on through   through the screens  
the only way that you could actually live in the in the city is to close your windows and have an air cleaner system right in your home   that would take the air from the outside and clean the air before it would get into the house  
and so it was quite a dirty city  
um if you were well protected by trees which catch a lot of the pollution   then you're fine  
but most of the time in the city you have lots of high [rises] you have lots of other things that are not catching the pollution  
and it's just going   for miles and miles and miles  
and it's landing somewhere with the wind  
but  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
sure  
yeah  
it's  
i mean our air quality um in the twin cities is a lot better than what we've heard about california and   maybe in the other areas  
but um they were always talking about the air quality of today is this you know the ozone or whatever  
and it's kind of scary because the air is something we take for granted  
and many people are too busy getting to work not thinking about okay i could have [carpooled] with a friend  
even   my husband was uh talking to some of the guys at work  
now he's uh fifteen miles away from work  
but he was talking wouldn't it be nice to carpool  
and the guy says well it's too close  
it wouldn't pay  
and so  
yeah  
and  
exactly and so my husband says well that's fine you know  
it would save quite a bit on the wear and tear on cars   and you know the gas  
and no  
everybody has their preference to drive by themselves  
or if they do they they drive with one little buddy uh  
at least it's with one person  
but most of the time people are saying forget it  
i don't want to carpool  
it's too much of a hassle  
it's too much involvement  
but yet  
yes  
we are  
and i think of my daughter  
and i'm sure you think of your children  
and you kind of say to yourself what kind of future will they have when they think back and say well my parents did have the choice to kind of make a difference  
and maybe people are trying  
but they have to change attitudes  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
sure  
well they  
my name's mary [dell]  
and i live in the dallas texas area where there's a lot of pollution  
oh  
uh_huh  
yes  
okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh   i'd never thought about that being a cause  
i have to dust a lot as well  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's kind of the way dallas is  
we're so flat and open  
and i live in a suburb that doesn't have much vegetation trees  
it was all cotton fields  
so   we don't have that advantage  
and ours i think is primarily cars where we don't carpool like we should   an airport  
i work in a building  
i'm nineteen floors up  
and i look out toward d f w international  
and there's just an awful brown haze all the time  
and i can imagine it's even worse for people living over near the airport  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
want to meet my own schedule   those are the arguments we hear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but we're   paying for it  
uh_huh  
and it seems to me that it's already so evident with our children having a lot more respiratory infections   than we had growing up   you can really see it  
i i had a chance to go to [bolivia] a couple years ago  
and of course there's no industry very little trash  
they   they don't even have that much that they burn because   they consume everything down   to the thread  
and it amazed me  
i i just had totally forgotten how  
okay  
for as far as um i would think the probably the uh worst substance that's probably um  
or started to say the uh  
what causes the most air pollution is probably the car  
and uh whether or not um they'll ever get into like huge transit systems into big cities where people would all travel on a high speed uh train or or something like that  
or  
yeah  
that's exactly it  
and that's what we're finding um here where we're at in minneapolis area is that people don't want to carpool   that there are [inconveniences] to that  
or maybe you don't like the person you have to you would want to carpool with that kind of thing  
so it's it's kind of a thing where uh i think the majority of the people do not carpool  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
or if somebody gets sick  
yeah  
or if somebody gets sick and it's not the other person   and they want to go home and that one person's got the car   then they're they're stuck  
you're   definitely right  
so   yes  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
that happens quite a bit  
yes  
yeah  
that's very true  
uh other than that uh i don't know  
okay  
oh okay  
we'll try to be real quick here  
the other thing then is because i don't know how long they want us to talk  
five minutes oh okay  
minneapolis area  
uh actually no  
we have uh quite a bit uh  
the only problem that we have and that's all over the whole world is ozone   and of course hay fever season  
you get some pollutants such as those  
but those are natural  
um but there is starting to  
in minneapolis itself because of so many people on the highway there is becoming a problem of pollution  
and   they just put in a strict law that as of every year when you get your license tabs   you have to have your car inspected   to see if it's releasing any uh lead into the air   or other pollutants  
and if that's the case then you have to get your car fixed  
at least where you  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
it's not a bad idea  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh the other thing when you're talking about freon with cars uh air conditioning i'm sure   over there it's a necessity   versus something up here we can live without it  
but it's uncomfortable  
but uh this year my husband [recharged] our freon because it was needed to be done  
and one of the cans released entire amount   of freon into the uh into the air because he opened it  
and i don't know   if there was something wrong with it or it his directions weren't quite fully instructed onto that  
and i was thinking how many other people  
oh sure  
because   if you take it into a service station   they want to charge you forty dollars just for uh freon which only costs you about three dollars  
so i have this feeling that freon probably will increase in price because it is something that people will have to take into consideration and say hey that's   that's right there  
i think it's like three or four dollars a a can  
and it takes about four to five cans to fill up a air conditioning unit in a car  
and i i thought about that  
and my husband even was kind of [woozy] after that because i'm sure he [breathed] it  
but uh you think about that all the people that are using freon and things like that  
and   uh_huh  
exactly  
pump yeah  
probably so  
yeah  
it'll be hard to get people to give up their mobility  
uh_huh  
i think so too  
i'm in texas  
and very few people carpool  
uh the people that i know don't want to because uh they never know for sure what time they're going to leave their job  
they never know when they want to run out and do an [errand] at noon you know   they just feel they need their car  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and people don't want to give it up  
but now i think we've made great strides   in changing a lot of that by going to the unleaded gasoline and   and to change the car itself  
but uh you know i i don't guess we can get away from it a hundred percent  
but   yeah  
well my other line is ringing  
but we're going to ignore it  
i'm sorry for these [beeps]  
oh close to five minutes i believe  
and you're in minneapolis  
well is the pollution really bad up there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well   that's the way it has gotten here  
we have just had that law i think about a year maybe a year and a half here in texas  
but uh i think it's a good idea   because a lot of people still want to drive the older cars   which you can't blame them for that  
and uh but if they are polluting the air they need do need to have them fixed  
and you know there's a big move especially in the industrial part in texas right now of controlling the c f c   that the big manufacturing companies are producing into the air   they're having to change the type of products they use  
uh they can't use  
like i have a friend that's in the air conditioning heating business  
and they have to pay a penalty for every ounce or pound of this certain type of freon that they use in the air conditioning systems  
therefore the individual every time they have a service call if they have an old unit that's still using this twenty two freon or whatever   it is it costs them three times as much to get it fixed  
and uh if you have a new high efficiency system that uses the new type of freons that do not release as many c f c into the atmosphere   it doesn't cost as much   so eventually people are going to have to go to newer systems you know  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
it's probably happened to millions of people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[inhaled] so much of it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well of course in the uh  
i think you probably noticed in the discount stores and places in the hair sprays   we're not seeing as many aerosol cans down here   nearly everything is in the pump [squirt]  
so what do you uh think is the uh the worst [culprit] for air pollution  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh i  
it's hard to put the finger on uh what's worse you know the acid rain situation or the ozone [depletion] um with uh your hydrocarbons uh   causing the damage in which  
well i notice on one of these uh home shopping networks they were selling these uh [halogen] uh fire [extinguishers]  
and the [halogen] is uh an ozone [depleter]  
and it got hydrocarbons in there  
it's a very clean uh fire [extinguisher]  
but it's you know really bad on the environment  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
uh in the twin cities area  
i just moved out of there and was kind of happy i [timed] it just right  
but they had a new policy where in order to get your uh your license uh your car license uh renewed you had to meet the pollution standards  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah uh  
yeah  
i guess that was just mainly in the cities there  
and as far as where i live i don't have to do that  
but   i have an old car which i doubt would uh would uh pass the inspection a seventy six  
and uh you know there's no way i would put in a lot of money to to repair it   to meet standards  
yeah  
so although i do what i can to to cut down pollution  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well well around here i we get uh  
well it depends you know  
either in the in the winter time it it blows it your way  
and in the   summer time   we probably get yours  
yeah  
yeah  
well it uh that's a big thing too  
i know it has nothing to do with air pollution  
but i kind of look at the way people treat our  
okay  
well i think it's it's probably a combination of things  
um factories that that burn coal as a an energy source with sulfur and nitrogen [contaminants] you know  
and you get sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides  
uh those are the ones i think primarily contribute to acid rain  
and i think that's that's probably hurting us a little bit  
it's hurting you know it's hurting germany for example too and some other parts of europe where they where they have high industry  
so we're not the lone ranger here  
yeah  
hopefully we're backing off from that a little bit  
but i know we haven't cured it yet by a long shot  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
i guess i missed that one  
uh  
automobiles of course are contributing too  
and you know how how we are with our love affair with the auto  
kind of hard to do anything about that i guess  
yeah  
we have that here too  
but it's part of the inspection sticker you know  
they put a [probe] in your exhaust pipe  
and and the computer reads whatever the [ionization] is coming out  
and   so that's you know that's the way they're dealing with it here  
yeah  
yeah  
it'd probably be difficult anyway  
i was just reading an article in uh mother earth news mother earth news magazine  
and uh they've got a new uh  
you know a lot of places are burning wood  
a lot a lot of people are burning wood  
those of us who have  
i've got a place in the country you know  
and uh they've had catalytic you know catalytic converters on those on  
uh i think they're required in california and oregon and and washington  
but they've had up those for quite a while  
and somebody's come up with a new one that uh sort of  
it's a it's a catalytic converter  
it's it's a plate that fits in you know into the smoke pipe  
and uh apparently it sort of feeds itself  
the more smoke is produced you know  
after you get to like five hundred degrees the higher it gets the more complete the [combustion] is  
and it sounds real neat  
i haven't seen them priced anywhere yet  
but that that sounds like that might help solve that problem even on   you know old old uh older stoves that don't have any kind of e p a requirements on them  
that might help a little bit especially in some places  
we're really lucky here  
we have a [prevailing] [southerly] wind that blows just about everything out  
now sometimes we get a kind of a  
especially in in uh autumn it seem like we get kind of a brown haze sitting on us  
but most of the time it's blowing out pretty well  
probably blowing up there to you guys  
yeah  
it comes back  
yeah  
i really think uh you know we're doing some some important things  
education raising consciousness awareness  
uh i know school kids  
i work for the school district here  
and uh you know this is one of the big things with kids  
kids are writing letters to the newspapers about you know telling adults to   clean up their act  
and it's uh you know  
i hope we're not too late with it  
we're we're uh we're having all kinds of recycling  
up up there maybe maybe you guys don't have as uh big a problem with air pollution as many do you  
do you really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's horrible  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well uh in dallas i i haven't seen air pollution quite on a quite on a level that we had in denver  
i grew up in denver  
and and i've lived there most of my life  
and we used to have those uh you know the posted warning days  
uh however in colorado now they have the emissions control law which has really cut down  
probably only once every couple of years do we ever have pollution so bad that they have to post warnings now you know as far as health concerns  
uh due to that the the emissions uh uh control on the vehicles seems that all of our all of our uh smog was caused by vehicles rather than industry  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it it becomes uh  
maybe to you and i who have grown up in some in uh uh some more beautiful parts of the country uh i think that that uh we become a little more aware uh rather quickly of of what's happening with air pollution and how uh how horrible it really is  
um i i notice people in in dallas seem to say well sure there's air pollution but you know really how bad is how bad could this problem really be  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
do you find that um or or do you [hypothesize] that that most of the uh smog or or air pollution comes from vehicles  
or does it come mostly from industry up there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i had talked with my parents  
i i grew up uh i was born in uh [muncie] indiana and and grew up a little bit in [terre] [haute]  
and i had asked them before uh  
i went back to visit recently about a year ago  
and i asked them  
i said did you ever realize the air pollution that was  
we we we have a terrible air pollution problem  
our summers are extremely uh hazardous  
and during uh certain wind directions because we get the uh gary indiana   chicago pollution  
and we can look out on the lake and just see the brown haze uh   coming up along the lake  
and they do post uh uh warnings for people who have uh heart diseases or respiratory problems   during that summer season  
in the winter it's not as severe  
but uh if the wind comes basically from the south it can be really bad  
uh the state of wisconsin as a matter of fact uh started some litigation against illinois because of the air pollution we were getting  
uh i don't think it's going to go very far  
but it it was uh a way of uh [triggering] uh awareness  
so what's the conditions like in dallas  
um  
wisconsin has a a law in which we need to take our cars in every year when we apply for a new license tag   and they are tested for uh their pollution control equipment  
and if they don't qualify then they have to take it to a mechanic and have it gone over and then verify that it it is [drivable]  
so they've they've tried to do a lot of that  
and i  
you know there seem to be at least in certain little pockets  
and we were talking earlier about madison  
madison has one of the nicest uh bike uh road uh sharing programs of of any city in wisconsin  
and all wisconsin has probably the most extensive number of uh bike trails for recreational use   of any of the states  
and there is a a real promotion of of biking  
but um there are still a lot of people who insist on on driving their own automobiles   uh to go everywhere  
i find that a little irritating because   i don't think it's always so necessary  
send send them to wisconsin  
and we'll let them try to drink out of some of the lakes   and try to fish in some of the lakes that have been suffering from uh the uh acid rain  
and   they'll they'll they may wake up you know  
how'd you like to own a piece of property where your lake is going sour   because of acid rain  
it's uh really a serious issue for those of us up in this uh sector up up here  
i think it's mostly vehicles   although it does come from some of the industry of of the gary area  
and uh i don't know exactly where it [emerges] from when it it's up in the uh northern sectors of wisconsin  
that causes the acid rain  
that i'm a little [uncertain] of  
but   i do know that uh it is a problem  
okay  
first off   speaking of air pollution i'm coughing  
um i'm not sure what contributes to air pollution exactly  
i find it hard to believe that a lot of the hair sprays and things that we use cause the air pollution  
it doesn't seem like  
but i guess when you think of it everybody has some sort of aerosol in their home   you know  
and it's kind of dangerous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but you think the mountains and the are kind of a barrier  
oh  
that's an interesting thought  
uh_huh  
here in texas i know a lot of the pretty much every place here is relatively flat  
and so i would think that that would probably contribute to us not having that big of a like a smog problem or   something like that  
um  
uh_huh  
i  
i  
yeah  
i guess i've never really uh thought about the fact like in california they they have a lot of smog problems  
and it's real hilly there  
so that is probably something that plays a big factor  
i think probably just uh a lot of factories um you know they have the smoke stacks i guess you call them   and different things like that  
uh_huh  
aren't they supposed to be coming out with some sort of uh special gas or something that doesn't [emit] certain chemicals or something  
um  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the diesel  
oh yeah  
i know a lot of people with diesels  
truck you know  
but um  
no  
i don't  
i i work in waco at a t v station  
my mother works at t i  
that's why  
yeah  
yeah  
you work at t i  
oh okay  
okay  
oh okay  
that's interesting  
what else causes air pollution um  
noise  
noise causes air pollution  
yeah  
that's why i thought of it  
oh  
yeah  
landfills  
we just  
yeah  
we just had a big uh thing here in waco  
they're needing to open a new landfill or to expand onto the old landfill  
and uh it's it's really been a big fight because a lot of the people that live by the landfill don't want it expanded because they're thinking that they're water is going to be contaminated somehow  
and so they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
one   one of the big concerns is they have a there's a school right across the highway from the landfill  
yeah  
so the parents were really really upset  
yeah  
they they've been fighting over it for the last year  
and they just now approved it  
so they're going to try an appeal or something  
yes  
yeah  
it it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh i don't know  
we live um well i'm close to salt lake  
and there's mountains uh you know all around  
but sometimes i think tend to hold a little bit of it in you know  
really it's it's fairly clean um  
i think it's a fairly clean city compared to some  
but you know how quite a  
yeah  
i think sometimes it seems to be  
but   but uh anyway i don't know  
i know there's a lot of plants here  
when i drive down   you know along the just along the freeway there's a lot of plants that they're burning things  
and  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
we we have a real fog problem um  
the last few years just in through december and january it it really is foggy and and seems to just um  
it's kind of like it it just stays for a month   quite foggy  
but uh gee  
i don't i don't know what else  
i know   cars  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's what i see burning a lot  
i'm not exactly sure what they're burning  
i know uh_huh there are some oil companies  
and i'm sure that that contributes a lot  
just the burning of the  
oh i don't know  
i haven't i haven't heard that  
i know uh  
i don't know how your emissions test is on your cars or anything  
but i know i think they they differ from state to state  
but um you know that's been a new thing in the last   few years  
and i guess some cars are a lot worse than others  
i think those uh  
what are they  
the  
i know  
a [rabbit's] one diesel  
the diesel cars  
yeah  
they seem to put out quite a bit  
huh  
oh  
well do you um are you working for t i  
oh okay  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
and that's how you got involved  
yeah  
no  
we we have um  
my husband's sister lives in dallas actually  
and they kind of got it us involved that way  
yeah  
but well i don't i don't know  
yeah  
noise  
i've got  
speaking of noise you can probably hear my little  
yeah  
he is quite noisy  
yes  
gee  
i don't know  
i know that um  
don't dumps you know where you dump all your   trash   in the uh  
yeah  
i'm sure that does  
i know they're always [churning] that up  
and i i think they burn a lot there too  
oh  
well i don't think i'd i'd like that  
you know we um  
when we've taken things to the dump just the dump uh that is uh you know closest to us  
there's   some houses around there  
and i know that on windy days you know   they're always moving the the trash over to different spots  
and they've got those big [bulldozers]  
and you can see the dust   flying  
and and i'm sure that their homes are really quite   dusty  
and  
oh is there  
worried about their   their kids getting huh  
how you doing howard  
this is a a subject that i'm not real well versed on  
but  
okay  
no  
okay  
i'm from the uh  
i'm from dallas  
i'm in richardson  
what do you think as far as air pollution in the dallas area  
right  
right  
oh really  
sure  
well you are you are well versed on the subject i tell you  
this is not one of my better ones  
i guess i guess i notice it the most just uh in driving around dallas with all the the highway equipment that's working on the   on six thirty five and seventy five just the cars in general  
that's where i see most of it  
right  
oh i don't know i've lived here since seventy four howard  
and i i think i think they been working on the highways around here since i've been here  
and i think i think they'll be working on them long after my wife and i are gone  
right  
i understand  
i sure hope so i tell you  
you know you get out on the uh interstate highways versus  
i travel quite a bit  
and traveling from like dallas to austin to san antonio it's the same thing as far as the pollution created by the automobiles in the in the [stalled] traffic and the busy highways you you you're at your best  
and i guess when you're out on the interstate heading north or south and you're just [cruising] right along and there's no build up of cars  
and  
yes  
i tell you what i i don't think i really have  
but i'm going that way tuesday  
and i'm going to make it a point to  
sure  
oh i know  
i know going to uh uh  
i [detest] going to houston because it's such a  
i guess we're ready to talk  
well let's talk about air pollution  
what do you think causes air pollution in dallas  
or where are you from  
maybe you're not in dallas  
okay uh  
well i have some small experience in this area  
the brown haze that you see if you look down central towards downtown   a lot of that is uh tied up with the oxides or nitrogen although some of the kind of [bluish] gray stuff we see sometimes is tied up with particulates  
but uh the one of the major problems that dallas has is oxides and nitrogen  
that's because of all the equipment that's being operated but at the same time uh because we don't have we don't burn a lot of coal and solid materials we   don't get a lot of particulates  
now particulates would come from trash burning or incineration or something like that here in dallas  
uh power plants since  
many of our local power plants uh are natural gas most of the time uh the things that come off of those plants are carbon dioxide and n o x  
there's no particulates in natural gas of course  
and we pick up a little bit of sulphur off some of these products  
we're burning fuel oil and a few other things  
but gasoline of course now the [lead's] out at least theoretically uh i guess you could say we're picking up some sulphur because a lot of the fuels does have sulphur  
that's why we get that rotten egg smell sometime off the catalytic converter   the sulphur yes  
and that's uh course [hydrogen] [sulfide] which is when you burn gasoline you also produce some water [vapor]   and that goes back in with your sulphur  
and under the right condition you get h two s  
but anyway uh  
well i don't know  
uh_huh  

uh ron a lot of this is caused by the fact that cars sitting in traffic tend to run rich because the way the pollution is  
and when they run rich they they spit out a lot of hydrocarbons  
and that's another part of the problem  
the gas is not being burned completely  
but uh hopefully if we ever get our road system fixed up this will get a lot better  
well i guess i not trying to top you but i grew up in dallas county and i can remember when they built the north part of north central which was built after the south part of   central  
and uh i can remember coming over the hill down there long about uh i don't know little bit north of mockingbird on up in over those hills  
and i said i wonder if they'll ever need this road  
course it was designed for most of us to go about forty five miles an hour because the short on ramps and are off ramps  
but gosh  
seems like uh those ramps might kill us yet  
i  
hopefully the new ones will be a lot better  
yeah  
ron have you noticed when you're driving south on thirty five i guess towards waxahachie [hillsborough] on down to austin   you hit a point down there about i think where they call bear creek exit   on just this side of the county line  
right along in there somewhere suddenly the air feels cleaner  
have you noticed that  
well sometimes it depends on which way the winds blowing  
but uh i also travel a little bit  
and uh i don't know it just seems like there's a certain point down there where you can breathe easier  
it may be all in my mind  

yeah  
one of the things they asked me to ask you was where you thought the major source was coming from   or sources  
that's what   i would think  
right  
yeah  
i think the automobile definitely is an area and any any industry that burns you know  
and then i don't know about chemical pollution  
i'm not real into that as far as how it affects the air  
i know we have a lot of chemical the indoor type pollution  
they have offices that are too well [insulated]  
they found people are getting sick  
but i don't know if that affects outside  
you know i i think seems to think seems to me that's what they were asking about was outside  
and the thing i can the only thing i can think of would be cars and factories  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that is well that's destroying the ozone isn't it  
yeah  
that's  
it's kind of scary  
yeah  
i think something too that you probably see in older states all we we do it down here once in a while we will have a cold spell is where people will use their [fireplaces]  
i think it will  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
in this area too since you know in texas we're so spread out  
we have to drive so far  
but i know in colorado i have witnessed that where it just uh it just stacks up at the when the [rockies] starts  
but we're even getting it here  
we can drive into when we've been on vacation or something drive into fort worth or dallas  
and you can tell it in the mornings too  
my husband likes to go out and jog  
and there's just a brown fog here  
and we don't even have any mountains that are   holding it in  
but they also said that more dense the population and the more we crowd together the worse it gets  
you don't have to have mountains that are stopping it  
and uh they make uh making more and more high rise buildings  
and uh so yeah  
we can comment  
and we didn't see this a few years ago  
it was pretty clear here  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's a shame too when you do see somebody driving a big car just one person in that  
it's a lot of waste  
but  
well i guess we're uh forced to finally to do a lot about air pollution  
i hear that the major automobile manufacturers are looking at [nonpolluting] cars  
and low polluting fuels are being experimented with [ethanol] and other types of fuels  
i you know i assume   that the major sources are cars and factories  
but i   i don't know for sure  
i just know that um acid rain apparently is a big problem in canada from would  
comes over the border from us  
yeah  
yeah  
the [smokestacks] or the exhaust pipes  
um i guess there's been a lot of pressure to um do away with the c f c's in these spray bottles which   has been a real problem  
again i that's what i hear  
and and there's this big debate apparently about whether the ozone there's a hole in the ozone or not  
but at last i heard it was uh discovered that the hole was bigger than they thought   initially  
well it is scary  
and i think it will uh continue to force us to clean up our act   literally and [figuratively]  
we've got to learn to manage without destroying the environment  
i i i'm wondering whether it's going to get to the point where you can't   do that  
in los angeles they're apparently going to  
they've passed laws that for habit for example people using uh barbecues   gasoline lawn mowers um  
and it's really bad in places like los angeles  
and   it's gotten bad in denver  
and and uh it's not too bad around here although you see it you know more and more in the sky  
and people in this country are really [wedded] to their uh cars  
and our economy seems to  
and this i think is one of the big problems  
yeah  
yeah  
well that makes a lot of sense  
i mean i i hadn't thought about it that way  
but it it  
yeah  
no  
and i think  
yeah  
and i think that that more and more it's becoming apparent to people that the earth which includes all the people on it and everything that's going on it is a is an [organism] of sorts   and that there is a a whole set of organic relationships that if we start to destroy one part of it it's going to tell us about it  
and uh we're going to feel it  
and i think it's going to be real interesting and particularly in light of what is obviously going to be a big [structural] change in the economy   uh in this country uh whether people are willing to get out of their cars  
and in this country uh the the solution that that people seem to think work are politically unacceptable  
for example   taxing people heavily for using their cars  
and uh i have a little sports car that i enjoy using  
and i know just like anybody else how much fun it is to drive  
but i think uh we're going to have to make some fundamental changes  
and and i'm i'm not sure how long it's going to take or what it's going to take because they keep saying that the economy is going to depend on how many cars and   houses we sell  
okay  
you want to start  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's stuff we never even thought about three years ago  
um  
have they stopped that practice now  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
yeah  
i hate to see a car going down the street or even a truck or bus for that matter that's putting out a lot of dark   smoke  
and i know there's a lot of pollutants we can't even see coming out of   cars  
but that that particular bothers me  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i might as well  
uh one of the things i'm very concerned about the air pollution is the uh this this the ozone layer uh uh issue  
uh i used to own a heating and air conditioning business and handled lots of different types of freons  
and that uh rather bothers me that uh i was in in effect uh contributing to the delinquency of the the environment so to speak  
right  
right  
and one of the reasons they fixed up the freons eleven twelve and thirteen in in in that area was because they were inexpensive  
uh they could be made uh you know inexpensive and lots of it uh  
and in that and its properties were great uh with uh the machinery didn't have to have lots of expensive machinery to uh get your heating and cooling cycles to work  
so  
well course there's a a tremendous number of refrigerators and excuse me refrigerators and [freezers] both commercial and residential uh utilizing freon twelve  
and of course the new cars i guess starting with nineteen ninety three will not have freon twelve in their systems  
but uh there's you know the ton of after market machines and et cetera et cetera  
and that's got me very you know highly concerned that uh that's going to be quite a while before we can uh   undo this  
now that could [spawn] several good industries and help   pull us out of this recession  
but you got to have people that can make you know earn a salary to pay for this conversion  
so so i see us in a kind somewhat of a catch twenty two unless we unless the banks or industry and or the government go together and and come up with a way to uh have us as a part of the unemployed society be able to be [gainfully] employed again converting all this freon twelve stuff into the new [nonpolluting] uh [compound]  
because as i say there's a there's a  
well how many uh uh families own a refrigerator  
and then do you know that number and then how many a a freezer separate from   and how many people especially here in texas own cars and trucks with air conditioning  
i mean this is there there are people that that make it have a [thriving] business uh that do nothing but heating and air conditioning on on automobiles and trucks  
and uh the only reason i didn't uh get into that more when i was had my little business was because uh most of your uh air conditioning in in on vehicles tend to be greasy and dirty to the n [th] degree  
and i mean  
so uh that's why i stayed in stayed more towards uh uh  
and that's a polluting type deal too is the excessive um you know uh petroleum products in your engine bay and so forth and the dirt and [grit] and those two mixed together with with water and uh really make uh make a mess  
uh_huh  
right  
well most most most of the time when you see bus uh you know the [busses] with the diesel   that's uh those are carbon particles and carbon dioxide and water [vapor] uh  
because when you when diesel is burned it's it  
you know diesel fuel is burned in a in the diesel engine  
it's burned so completely that you don't have any uh [nitrous] oxides uh or oxides of nitrogen uh to uh form   because of by virtue of the very [combustion] process of the diesel engine because diesel oil is uh is not very volatile   you know where gasoline if you leave a little [pail] of gasoline out before long it's gone  
diesel is going to be around because it doesn't evaporate easily  
and it's got  
well you know it's [latent] heat is high  
but it's slow burning at at uh normal pressures  
that's why your diesel engines have such high [compression] [ratios]   as the as the air is heated you know by virtue of the [compression] process to like one to nineteen or nineteen to one   ratio  
and so if the car sucks in uh fifty degrees  
so how you like new jersey  
right  
i guess uh i don't know what part of new jersey you're in but i guess it's uh fairly industrial  
right uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
well i don't know about you  
but i've always considered automobiles to be probably the the prime contributor  
i mean there's a lot of contributors  
but it seems that automobiles would probably do more than their fair share of that  
yeah  
that's yeah that's that's a big issue is you know  
a lot of states don't have a uh inspection law  
so you get you get a lot of people out there without e t r emission control systems on their cars and things like that  
yeah  
and it's like  
sure  
right  
i guess from what i hear though uh next year ford is coming out with their electric cars  
they're actually coming out with the first [prototypes] in california  
yeah  
right  
i hope i i'm hoping that comes along quick  
uh i was reading a an article in time the other day about the ozone layer and how fast that's going  
and i guess it's it's really disappearing a lot quicker than people realize  
and i know that's not due to uh it's not due to to gasoline or to you know carbon [monoxide] so much as the c f c  
but  
uh yeah  
i think that's a that's a contributor definitely  
right  
right  
yeah  
i guess right now what they're what they're primarily worried about is third world countries because i guess united states and and russia have kind of taken the lead in terms of eliminating c f c production  
but   it  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
right  
and that's one of the arguments that the third world countries have been using is that basically they don't want to have to pay for our mistakes if if that makes any sense  
uh in terms of  
exactly  
exactly  
uh those of kind of yeah those are joining arguments  
but uh i don't know  
that's that's kind of an interesting situation there  
uh what they don't realize those third world countries what they don't realize is how quickly the ozone is [depleting]  
i guess the latest figures are up to fifty percent at the poles  
and it's it's increasing even as far near the [equator] as like florida and cuba and those places  
so it's kind of an interesting situation  
it's not not a real good one actually  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't get that that source of [cleansing] anymore  
are have you been in big cities a long time  
okay  
so you've got  
yeah  
those are actually areas that are hit pretty hard i would think  
yeah  
[denver's] definitely  
yeah  
that's one of the worst  
sure  
yeah  
[denver's] that that real good that real good uh example of sitting in a valley kind of like mexico city does i guess  
mexico city is historically been one of the worst   in the in the world for that  
but i've been pretty lucky  
i've lived in cities that really haven't had that much of a problem although uh i'm really kind of based in orlando florida  
and there you can tell that it's getting worse  
i mean it it definitely it's not at a level comparable to los angeles or denver  
but you can  
exactly  
yeah  
and there's not that much in terms of of public transportation down there  
there is  
but it's kind of it's  
uh it's pretty good you know  
you get uh closer to the uh coast here  
and you do get a good bit of uh smog and stuff especially from all the uh fuel cracking [towers] and chemical plants  
yeah  
it's  
when you get further east towards new york city it gets very industrial  
but i'm i'm about uh thirty miles west of there  
so you have uh actually green trees and such that you   don't notice that that other part of   new jersey exists  
actually very  
you know you go even a few miles out and you got uh farms and everything  
so you relatively clear air  
but uh  
oh definitely  
it's  
uh you know there are a large number of them on the road  
they're all you know going  
and a lot of them are in relatively poor repair  
oh even where you do have the inspections you know the inspection is once a year  
you get the car that's in the accident  
and muffler falls off or something  
and guy keeps driving along for long period of time after that  
yeah  
that  
and i think also some of the uh car companies are coming out with uh gas powered [fleets]   so you  
natural gas powered rather than uh gasoline  
it it is coming from cars though  
i mean the uh car air [conditioners] is   one of the major leaking sources of uh the uh freon   which is one of the major [fluorocarbons]  
well it it  
no  
it's it's the type of thing there that uh you know  
the third world countries are less industrial  
and they want to become industrial  
so they're on the different part of the cycle of the u s  
the u s used you know all the air pollution stuff and air polluting technologies to get where it is today  
or or they want the right to make the same mistakes themselves to [bootstrap] them up to the way where we   got to  
yeah  
no  
well you also have the very close related thing of the uh rain forest [destruction]   which is the main source of what's clearing out the atmosphere and   replacing some of the pollutants  
mostly i've mostly been in the east coast  
so that's going between atlanta d c area  

well not not as hard as some places out west because you don't get the uh major pollution sources as you do out in denver with the   inversion   and los angeles and rest of california which is just terrible it sounds  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
there it's almost all automobiles because there's not that much in the way of   heavy industry you know that would be causing it  
uh_huh  
well here in logan utah we've got a nice little valley here  
and it's like crystal clear all the time except for during the winter when the inversion sets in  
and then we get a little bit of pollution in the valley  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
here in utah up along the [wasatch] along the western side of the of these rocky mountains here where a lot of the big cities are salt lake and ogden and provo  
and [logan's] up in the valley a little bit further north  
we get a lot of pollution  
and it's like seventy percent of it is from cars  
and uh it always really hits hard during the winter when we get the inversion  
and when we get   get cold air down in the valleys and warm air up above  
and it just sits and sits and sits  
and we're starting to hit pollution levels now on the [wasatch] front which match that of l a a few years ago  
it's not it's almost sad  
because when i grew up here it was just always the crisp air up in the mountain valleys  
and now it's not in the mountain valleys  
huh  
they're getting serious about things like uh mandatory  
well they've already passed laws where you have to get your cars checked for pollution if you're in certain counties  
emissions  
yeah  
they've actually started doing it down along the  
not in logan up here cause we're doing a lot better  
we have a lot population is a lot lighter up here  
yeah  
yeah  
they're eliminating that out here  
they're also talking very seriously about the thing called a dirt gun where they're uh looking at the emissions from the car using basically a [spectrometer] and looking at the basically how much of what is coming out of the exhaust  
kind of like a [radar] gun  
and  
yes  
yeah  
do it remotely just looking at the what they do  
they do several different types of things  
sometimes they put a source light  
and they look at the source light  
and then as the car goes by you can see the exhaust pipe and the source light behind it  
and you can look at the emissions actually  
and  
like across the street  
they'll set up   like a trap or something like that in some sense  
and they're also looking at uh other you know ways of monitoring this and cause they've found out something basically that uh  
and a poorly tuned car can [emit] something  
it's an incredible amount  
it was like four hundred times as much   uh of certain pollutants and it was like [unburned] hydrocarbons then a properly tuned car  
and and the idea being that if you just tuned up all the cars well if you tuned up this ten percent of the cars that were producing like fifty percent of the the pollution then you know you it'd be one way to cut the pollution in half  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
and they're  
huh  
well here in seattle uh it's the [air's] getting more and more polluted  
we're uh we're in kind of a basin  
and uh seattle is on [puget] sound which is a inland [waterway] between two mountains  
and uh there's been a lot a lot of growth population growth around here  
and uh it's uh it's getting worse  
i think   most of it is from cars  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i live in the   university district  
and uh uh it's supposed to have about the worst air pollution  
i think probably due to uh a lot of students going back and forth to school  
and then we're right next to interstate five also  
oh yeah  
have they started doing that yet  
we have that here  
and uh they're they're expanding it to uh more counties here uh as the population spreads out  
and i think they're also going to be making it uh mandatory for more cars  
there was uh something in the law about if you're car was over a certain age like over twenty years old you didn't have to get it done anymore  
and   i think they're eliminating that uh   that [loophole]  
yeah  
oh really  
you mean they could   do that remotely  
huh  
now where does the source light go  
oh i see  
jeez  
yeah  
that's neat  
but it's also been uh-oh you know  
everybody is talking about using more mass transient here  
but it uh it's tough you know  
like i've i've looked into riding the bus to work  
and i can drive to work in uh and get there in twenty to twenty five minutes over a very congested [corridor] which goes over lake washington on one of the floating bridges  
but if i uh if i take the bus it requires several [transfers]  
and it takes over an hour  
so so it   it's it's not hard to see why why i keep driving  
and you know i feel guilty cause i'm driving a  
okay  
yeah  
is it  
i know in here uh downtown dallas it's you i mean you drive by and you can just you can see it  
but then again i originally was from california  
and uh there is a big difference between texas and california  
and uh   they'd have their smog [alerts] and where you'd have to stay indoors for so many hours with an air conditioner  
and of course they don't have that here in texas  
so there's  
no  
not in not in well not in dallas that is  
yeah  
we're going there tomorrow  
uh_huh  
we're   packing and getting ready to go to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
you do then  
is it really  
i would not imagine that  
huh  
huh  
you learn   something every day  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've seen that  
huh  
huh_uh  
huh  
no  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
huh  
and of course i doubt if there's any  
you can buy regular anymore  
you buy unleaded  
right  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
that is good  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
oh  
that would be nice  
i think i saw that on t v one time  
they  
maybe it was c n n where they were [demonstrating] that   or something similar to that  
huh  
but what  


i think that was a a a setback  
that they  
i don't know  
they went i don't know how many miles an hour  
i think like  
was that something   maybe it was  
i don't know  
huh   huh  
yeah  
and they're they're very expensive too  
well yeah  
yeah  
well it doesn't make sense  
because if they want people to convert you know   they should make it worthwhile  
yeah  
yeah  
um well i'll tell you   sometimes it's it's pretty bad here  
like today i think it was pretty bad  
i don't know if it was if it's just uh the allergies or what  
but   some days it's very nice here downtown  
and other days it's just really bad  
so i don't know  
so what what kinds of things did you experience in l a when you were there  
or can you remember  
were you there at a  
cause i haven't been there probably  
yeah  
well we were there when they had a  
okay carol  
so air quality  
uh_huh  
surely  
you mean they don't have the uh the smog [alerts]  
right  
i i   yeah i spent a summer in tyler so i know just east of dallas there  
oh really  
yeah  
actually i'm a california born person  
i was born in l a  
so i know what you're talking about  
in l a it's pretty bad  
uh the worst city in the in the world is actually uh mexico city  
yes  
the worst one for smog is mexico city  
the most polluted city in the world  
yeah  
i know that they've they're looking at uh uh you know uh you know better running automobiles  
uh some things they do one of them is they're using corn in fuel  
you ever heard of that  
yeah  
[methanol]  
yeah  
well that's big up here because of the they grow a lot of corn  
uh that's one thing that they do  
at that it's pretty easy to do  
and the uh  
unfortunately it still contributes to global warming cause you have to you know wipe out forests to grow corn and things like that  
it doesn't make sense  
uh but it's you know  
one of the most uh productive crop in the world   is corn  
yeah  
drive cars with catalytic converters   and all that  
it's interesting  
they're they're looking at  
there's some work being done on uh automobiles that are electrical powered  
and uh   they're looking at where you have a battery operated car basically  
but it has a a engine in the back   that charges it  
so the engine [kicks] on when the batteries need power  
and it turns off  
interesting thing about gas is when i mean about battery powered cars is when you're at a stop light you're not using any any energy  
unlike a car where it's running  
a electric car it's on demand  
i mean it's either on or off  
basically  
you don't have to shift  
so you  
cars become very simple all   of a sudden too  
very interesting  
yeah  
there's there's a race in australia with solar powered cars  
and ford and general motors and all those compete  
right  
yeah  
g m uh chrysler announced that they're going to they're  
well they actually have an electric minivan  
yeah  
their their caravan  
but it costs uh fifty thousand dollars right now  
to operate yeah  
but you know people are buying them  
you know whose buying them  
the power company  
free you know free for them  
kind of interesting so see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's top speed is something like eighty miles an hour  
so it's   a good good   vehicle  
uh_huh  
oh i wasn't there too long ago uh  
well you know going over the hills you know coming into the valley  
you can see that horrible horrible brown haze  
well i guess without a doubt we'd have to say automobiles although i suppose manufacturing contributes uh quite a bit to air pollution
uh yeah
you know i'm wondering uh of course uh freon is uh is uh eating away at our
our what you call it layer there
ozone layer i wonder when they're going to what they'll be able to you in in place of freon though
uh well actually you know
that is the way a refrigerator works
well basically what happens is you have to have some form of heat
be it electrical as in your home refrigerator or [propane] as the one on the ship that you said
uh you had
and uh somehow heat must be created that freon oh i'm not exactly sure what happens
but apparently it expands in the heat
and in the process of expanding it goes through cooler [coils] and whatnot
and it becomes ice cold
oh yes
yes
[freon's] uh freon is in a closed circuit uh
that's why our present day [refrigerants] uh systems are not dangerous
unless the lines are broken
well did you ever see what happens when they uh replace the or [replenish] the freon in your automobile air conditioner
i mean there's uh a lot of it
is uh turned out into the atmosphere
and i understand now
uh i don't know if it's international or just here in texas or what
but uh service stations are going to require to have a special device to catch this freon as it is [expelled] the excess freon and therefore you won't be able to just pull in anywhere to or you wouldn't even be able to do it yourself at home
no
that's true
you know i can remember as a child
uh spending summers at my grandfather's place
and i'd be running around with nothing but a bathing suit no shoes socks shirts or anything
uh i mean from [dawn] till dusk and i developed a nice tan but uh my gosh never had to worry about uh skin cancer
or for that matter
you could stop at any stream that looked reasonably clear and and get a drink of water without worrying uh about catching some disease
um yeah
yeah
i tell you a funny thing happened to me with with polluted water uh t i sent me up on a trip to wyoming i think it was
and i was out in this little town kind of [backwoods] town you know where a big night on the town is going down watching the traffic light change
but uh i checked into a motel
and after i signed in and everything why the uh clerk told me uh don't drink the water it's contaminated he said now we do have bottled water we supply to our guests but unfortunately
we're out of it right now
but as as soon as we get it
i i'll see that you get a bottle of it
well the next morning i got up and the water had not been delivered yet
and
would you believe it
i brushed my teeth with [coca] cola oh well they had this uh it's some kind of a bacteria or carried by animals
and it they got their water from this uh beautiful mountain river
well maybe not quite a river
but a little bigger than a stream but this uh bacteria had uh [penetrated] their entire pipe system or water system
and they tried [flushing] it out
they they couldn't get rid of it
i've often wondered now this is years ago
and i've often wondered what they ever did
of course oh it was a beautiful mountain stream [bubbling] nicely you know the which uh is what [purifies] the water when
it [bubbles] yes
and yet even at that it was still contaminated yeah
yes
well i'm beginning to wonder too
i mean you you're always hearing stories about well the government [okayed] this
and then all of a sudden you turn around and my gosh it's okay to to doing it this way
but if you turn around and do it that way
it's dangerous
as a matter of fact i did
neither have i
uh yeah
i've often wondered about uh l a
now that's suppose to be about the worst city in the country
i guess for
air pollution
yeah
uh_huh
well uh they used to do it down in florida now i lived down there for ten years
no
they did away with it because they found out that uh the people that were doing it it was just a [racket] to them
and for uh for nothing to
yeah
uh_huh
well now here's another thing
diesels uh diesel engines are
are the worst
and yet they haven't done a thing to them
uh_huh
yeah
tell me about it
i just got rid of uh a diesel engine escort well they um i i had good luck with mine until it finally just blew up on me
here a few weeks ago
is that right
well
uh_huh
well now there was at one time as a matter of fact it may have been buick i think because i think it was g m that came out with a or diesel engine that was converted from a gas engine
and uh they used the same [pistons] and and cylinders and whatnot
but all they did was change the uh uh the [induction] [ports] and uh et cetera et cetera whatever needed to be changed over and although they were it seemed practical at the time they were nothing but a headache
and they did
finally did away with them
and went to a straight diesel
well now of course in california they they have much stricter codes than we have elsewhere
now could be that we could do the same thing that they're doing out in california
i don't know what it is [precisely]
but uh they're doing
they do something a little more stricter than we do
well i guess i've uh just i've listened a lot to the media
and i've tried to read some things on it
and i've tried to take some steps to uh understand it and figure out where i am in the whole mess
um apparently it's getting worse
i mean i can tell that just by driving in dallas you have the low flying gray cloud on certain days
but you know it really gets to you in terms of being able to breathe and and and things like that
so we know that if you do the same thing to like your plants and you don't let them breathe they kind of die
on you
um and so you know looking at the different areas that um cause air pollution um i guess we have industry for one um that has to be i guess a little bit more aware of you know the output and uh harmful chemicals and things that they use um what do you think about that
oh right
yeah
yeah
oh good
yeah
right
well that's true
i think you know we we had such
i mean i'm i'm close to forty
and i can remember the good old days when we didn't have to worry about all this stuff and life was pretty you know um complacent in these areas and uh i think you're right though that we not only pay the price in money we're going to pay the price in health and our you know in the future whatever's going to happen here
and you know it takes a few people you know on the alert to uh um really make a change and make a difference in the way people think
and you're right about the education it's just got to be little by little by little until people become aware
but i think we've got sort of a snowball effect going on now
and i think that you know in terms of air pollution we're um [pinpointing] certain you know industries in our own communities that are you know blatantly um abusing the [airspace]
and i think we're beginning to make them aware that um you know it's not just the a financial bottom line that they have to look at it's you know um
it has a a bigger impact on the on the whole environment and the whole area
and gosh
i i don't know
you know health seems to get in in the act too you know your your health and your lungs
and and all this
i mean this comes down to smokers
and i don't know what to do about smokers because you know that's sort of an infringement of they're rights see you can go overboard too
you can be real radical about this
and i'm not for that
i'm for [persuading] people by the use of education and by demonstration and by um you know your example of how things go um
and you know i know there's some real [radicals] out there and that that will tend to turn you off any time and think that they're you know full of baloney
and they're not you know on the right planet sometimes
but you know what i mean about that
i think it's education like you said that really needs to
and it starts with you
like you said just tell them to you know
why you're doing why you're collecting cans and why you're collecting glass and why you're recycling the stuff and gosh
oh
yeah
just as
yeah
well get it's yeah it's hard
it's really hard
and they have to maybe sort of like like hit bottom like they either have to die or they have to be you know totally incapacitated before they change their mind
and you know bless their hearts
you can't do anything that will impact them or or you you can't find a way really that it's it's it's almost like you know you can talk about [alcoholism] too
i mean you know in this hidden in this manner sometimes i think that it's just a person has to change their mind
and uh it's tough
but um you know it it
i don't allow people to smoke in my house and i i hope they respect that
and you know i i send them outside
sort of thing
and and they respect that or else they just don't come back
they don't smoke in my car
and you know
and it's not getting to be a big deal anymore
i you know they they seem to uh understand or at least have a little bit of respect for your wishes and they don't just necessarily light up and and uh you know not expect to get some flack these days
yeah
well yeah
uh_huh
use your own lungs don't borrow mine
can take part in your air yeah
well things are getting
i mean like i said i don't know why i know how old i am
and i know that i never had to worry about the stuff i thought you know the grass is green the sky was blue and the ocean was a pretty light blue you know and and i'm finding out that that's not always the case anymore
and that you know the damage has been done
and you know we're left with a mess in a lot of ways you know caused by um starting with the air pollution
and and that's just one of the factors that goes into you know trying to get this place cleaned up
but oh
gary indiana huh
which one oh really
really
yeah
oh i remember yeah
oh i'm from chicago
i grew up in chicago
so yeah
you know we had a lot of snow up there
oh absolutely
okay
well i i definitely think it's our the cars we drive
and i think you know everyone has good intentions
and and thinks well i should car pool
and i will
and but that we just have so many different interests and so many different things we have to do
it's it's a bother to have to pick somebody up and if you have a doctor's appointment or something
and they have to get another ride home or you have to arrange it's just a hassle
and i guess we're not willing to do that
but that to me is probably the thing that needs to be done or to start using public
dallas area
i live in plano
which is just a a suburb of of dallas
do you live in a major city
oh okay
no
well myself i i go to richardson which is a i teach school
and so i don't commute that far
it's only about four miles
but the majority of people that live in this area go into dallas to work and and when you're if you go out on the freeway and you look you see almost every car is just one passenger and our public transportation system's a joke
so people just don't bother to take that because it's inconvenient
we don't have any kind of a a train or uh you know anything like some of the big cities do
we're supposed to get one
but it's you know way off the in the future
but
no
it's just it
oh is that right
sure
how large is raleigh
so it's pretty big
yeah
uh_huh
and so you ride your bike to work and everything
or aren't you
well that's great
see that's that isn't even i mean i'm not sure that a even a percentage of of people in the dallas area ride bikes to work you know i just don't think they do
i never see anybody
um
another thing that that i think our my family's real conscious of is is is to stop using aerosol cans and you know uh you know get find another way instead of
you know
i know it really is
and we just need not to buy the stuff and those businesses will have to you know the corporations and so forth have to change
if you don't buy it
they're not going to make it
so
yeah
that is an easy one
but uh you know
and i notice probably a lot of uh commercial pollution
and and factory pollution in dallas you can see it
some days
it's really bad
yeah
it's awful
it's nothing like california where the smog is constant but it's still there
and you know it if we i think if we really realized how much we do breathe in
that's unhealthy we would immediately do something about it
but i don't think people realize how unhealthy the the air is
yeah
well i think i don't see i only teach english
and and uh but the science teacher i teach fifth grade
and we're [departmentalized] and the science teacher does a really big unit on it
and i think the kids are more informed than adults are
i mean
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
they do they do
and they and and i think that they are they care a little bit more
and i think as adults we need to care because it's the the future for our kids
and i you know i mean my kids are much more aware than i was at their age about things like that
and i think it's it's definitely has to be that
no
it really wasn't it wasn't a problem it
i mean i'm sure it was beginning to be a problem
but people were just weren't aware of it
like they are today
and i think that's where it has to start with the kids because it's going to be their world soon
and i think it and and we're real big on you know plano which is a small suburb of dallas
about a hundred thousand um
i think we're more than that about a hundred thirty thousand now
but um they're really trying their best to start recycling
and things like that that will
and we just we have separate garbage collections now for plastics and cans
and newspaper and which i think is i mean that's that should be just a way of life
for everybody
you shouldn't even complain about it
you should just do it
uh_huh
that's true
you're right
you're right
well you know it just has to be when you consider the landfills we we're not going to have any soon
and it's it's ridiculous
but the thing the [quandary] that i'm in is that that we had a great big article in in in the newspaper last week about i've been real big about going to to the store and asking for paper instead of plastic well
that was really controversial because some scientists you know feel like plastic
i mean paper is worse than plastic
it's just it's just a real um debate about which one is is the best
really the best thing to do is to bring
um you know a cloth bag yeah
do you
yeah
see that's what i do too
i forget
and and besides when i go to the store
i have a family you know i i get maybe ten twelve bags
of groceries and you know it would be a little a little expensive
although
you know i'm sure some
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yes
that's right
that's right
you're right
uh_huh
well you know
and they say that you know plastic is recyclable but not that many people use them
again you know
yeah
that's true
sure
sure
i think that you know i think that it's tremendous the research they're doing on all of this
because i think we need to to know and be more aware of it
so we can do some changing
but the majority of people are so lazy about it
that they're not willing to to sacrifice a little to to make the world a better place
and it's kind of sad because especially if you have children
and because you know you want your kids and their kids to to be able to be a part of a
yeah
a world that's halfway decent
and you know just in my lifetime i've seen such a change in the environment and it's scary because by the time my kids have kids and they're growing up
it's going to be a completely different world
you know
and it's it's scary
so you know like i i know that i need to car pool
and i don't
and uh and i you rationalize and say well i only am four miles away
and that it's no big deal
and
well you know
but
yeah
right
right
well you know just
yeah
just with with our thing in plano
it had recycling garbage it hasn't it hasn't been that long
and it was just uh really an easy adjustment for most people
but there was a small percentage that [griped] and complained and wrote you know letters to the editor and you know like it was some real
great big deal inconvenience and but it seems to me you should just be able to give up a little bit to make the world better
but some people don't think that
so
and some people don't
and some people i think really believe
and maybe they're [rationalizing] but they really believe that everybody's making a bigger deal out of the problem than it is
and that and that it's right no way it's it's there and we've got to face it
that's right
i think in some cases they aren't
and i see
i wonder i wonder how much the laws that congress passed several years ago are really enforced
as far as big companies and
oh i think so too
and i think that they're not fined the way they should be
or they're
they pay them off or whatever
so they can get away with it
i i was born in ohio
and when um when i was young
we we did a lot of fishing and on lake erie
and i i mean when i went back
i just couldn't believe the difference
it's just terrible the way it's polluted because of of big corporations that dump and you know
and you just feel so bad because at one time
it was a wonderful beautiful lake
and now it's a mess
yeah
i when i was little
my dad had a boat
and we would go fishing on lake erie
and it was beautiful
and it's not beautiful anymore
that's interesting
i hadn't seen that
i know there was a lot of talk about freon contributing to the the uh hole in the ozone layer and other various pollution
but uh other than uh making the air conditioning systems tighter i didn't know that there was any work on uh alternate [coolants] uh_huh
the uh the the times that i've seen any sort of of loss is uh at a time when maybe i'd have uh the the uh freon checked in the air conditioner or maybe [topped] off and it seemed to me that they'd practically waste almost as much as uh they'd put in the car
but i've
noticed in the past few years that
uh the controls on that are tighter
uh people are a lot more concerned about that
well obviously cars
uh and trucks contribute quite a bit and personally i'll uh
i carpool uh most of the time with someone
i work with
but my schedule doesn't uh doesn't make for a consistent carpool
uh_huh
that's a that's a good question
uh the leaded fuels have obviously been out of the automotive industry for quite some time and there's always talk about uh about regulating the emissions that a a car engine can produce and [tightening] down on that
and of course the uh the large auto makers in this country spend [untold] millions to lobby to keep business just the same as usual
there's a big issue in rhode island right now uh there's a company that wants to build a coal fired uh energy plant very close to to downtown [providence] and they are pulling all sorts of tricks to maneuver around various controls and inspections and regulations apparently the the
well we have the the usual automotive pollution
although it's not very visible you don't worry about that uh too much uh but uh we have a lot of wood smoke here now i heat with wood
so uh i'm one of the [polluters] if you think that wood smoke is a is a source of pollution
but there are people in this community who who think that uh it's gone beyond the part of being part of the charm of the community to the point of being part of the pollution and and uh we're very close to the uh grand canyon
where the air pollution is a very big issue because uh of pollution
well it's debatable as to whether it's coming from the los angeles area on the jet stream or whether it's coming from the four corners power plant up near page arizona
uh but because it's a national park
that's a a big issue there uh here in [flagstaff] actually uh it it's something that's unique to us
the the biggest [pollutant] that we have in our air is cinder dust
and that's because uh we're in a [volcanic] region
and we uh we have dirt roads uh in a lot of areas that are covered with [cinders] but they also use [cinders] on the highways in the winter time in place of uh using salt or substances like that that they might in the eastern part of the country
and when the snow goes away
and it dries up and the cars drive over it
we get a lot of cinder dust kicked up into the air and as of you know the the largest quantity that's the biggest pollutants that we have to to deal with here
yeah
huh
right
does does dallas sit in any kind of uh uh i've been there
but i don't remember if you sit in any kind of a trough that uh where you get temperature inversions that that capture air pollutants or anything like that
sure
i laugh because i made the journey once from el paso to dallas
and then continuing east uh to the eastern coast of the united states and uh i [joked] that uh all of the [settlers] settled in eastern texas where the green rolling hills are
and and when they finally beat the mexicans the mexicans said fine
you can have east texas
but as only as long as you take west texas too
yep
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
it
yes
here in [flagstaff] uh [juniper] is the the very [distinctive] smelling wood that you can smell in the wood smoke
uh and one of the issues here uh which gets into forest management
but has an impact on on air pollution is that uh we're surrounded by the largest stand of ponderosa pine in the world
but people don't want to burn ponderosa pine they want to burn oak which is very hard to find in this region
or
[juniper] because it's the more [plentiful] hardwood and uh aspen uh it burns very [cleanly] but doesn't put out a lot of heat
uh and ponderosa we also have [pinon] but uh uh it like ponderosa is very dirty
and so they're not [preferable] woods and so here we have this great abundance of ponderosa pine and the forest service is saying we really wish that we could find a way to make it uh less of a
how's the quality of air in portland
really
uh_huh
uh_huh
quite a bit of ozone and a lot of smog
yeah
oh yeah
i've heard that los angeles is horrible
and denver is i hear it's really bad
atlanta atlanta is moderately bad uh you know we have we have a big problem with ozone uh
and you know it's generally uh you know it's just just quite often you know be a very [hazy] sort of day you know because there will just be this pollution hanging in the air uh i think a lot
i think most of our problems
cause by automobile emissions it's you know a very mobile city
uh_huh
uh_huh
heavy industry yeah
i think the industry has been you know relatively good about uh you know having regulations at least in the last twenty years or so about industry pollution
but it's just seem that i think i think we really suffer because you know we don't have any sort of an organized mass transit system any sort of you know like high speed rail or even even you know decent regular passenger rail across the country uh it seems it seems like like there there's a lot more federal subsidies for automobile you know through the construction of highways for automobiles
um
i know a little bit of chemistry uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
until it gets to the air just can't can't support them in the quality life
they want
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh they they do have automobile emissions tests
but uh it's there's some sort of rule i don't have a car
so i don't know the actual specifics
but it's like your car is it's a if the model year of your car is more than twenty years old
you don't have to have it inspected any more
you know which which is just kind of ludicrous you know because it
they're the ones that you would expect to
you know be the hardest be the biggest [polluters] yeah
that's true
i essentially live downtown
and i go to school at georgia tech which is pretty much located in the heart of downtown within a mile from the heart of downtown
it's i don't think it's really announced you know in the sense that the way the way it is in california
but uh
okay
what do you feel is contributing most to air pollution
cars you think so
uh_huh
yeah
i i would have figured that some of the factories may be contributing as much as as uh automobiles
uh_huh
uh_huh
well if you only have to get your car in inspected once a year you can just have it fixed real quick right before the inspection
and and a lot of when you a lot of places when you go get the inspection they just pull it out of the garage and then pull it back in
and they don't really check anything
they just make sure the lights work basically
have they
uh_huh
oh gosh
yeah
that will help
less people drive and more you know more people riding in one car rather than everybody riding to work by themselves would help a little bit
and if if everyone car [pooled] that would cut it down in half
uh_huh
yeah
well uh in uh san antonio the parking downtown
i work downtown
and the parking is so dad gum expensive you basically have to car pool to be able to afford to park it costs seventy five dollars a month
just to park my car
so i ride with two other uh girls
so that way it will only costs me twenty five dollars a month to park
but it's just crazy
and it's from what i understand
i know a girl in washington d c
and it costs her a couple of hundred dollars a month to park her car
yeah
and from what i understand new york city is worse that it just costs a fortune to own a car in new york city
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh once you're in downtown san antonio it's real easy to get around they have a they have these uh buses that that look like little street cars
and they go all around that it's just real easy to get around once you're downtown the problem is getting downtown
and they have some uh park and ride uh [expresses] where you go to the the bus stop and you get on the bus
and it takes you directly downtown
but they don't have enough of them
and they're not convenient enough
and there just happens to not be one convenient to where i live
so
if if there were i would ride the bus
uh no
not really
um
i noticed once flying into d f w there was just a a [brownish] orange haze over the city
it was the ugliest thing i had ever seen
yeah
this is a nice time of the year though when it's so windy
it just seems everything is so fresh
yeah
um
yeah
yeah
i guess so
i think it's five
and i think we have
it was nice talking to you
so what do you think about it
um for the worst i would assume
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
you're probably lucky to see the end of the [runway] by now
um
well i'll tell you i don't know
i i don't know whether i i i count the stink as part of air pollution
and it stinks down here
it depends on where you are now if you're over
yeah
if if you're over by [asheville] you're pretty good
because you're up there in the mountains and you've got some nice ozone and all that over here in raleigh
it's kind of flat and stagnant and just yucky
it's fine over on the coast
because you've got the you've got the breezes off the off the water there
but uh seems like it's just dull and [uninspiring] here
no
i don't know
they're they keep doing things and it doesn't seem to be doing any good
i was i was really amazed because i never would have expected you know this problem somewhere like in atlanta
and i drove through atlanta uh couple of weeks ago
and it was unseasonably warm
and you could see the smog just sitting on top of the city
and when i drove through i it it was terrible
i i had to keep the windows up
it was just so thick and uh heavy uh i couldn't believe it
i because i i used to live in atlanta years ago
and it was always fairly clean
i mean you always you didn't have a problem with stagnant air like like l a
does
but boy it was really bad that day
yeah
yeah
right
but you see all these all these trucks [belching] out this black smoke
yeah
i know it's i i i don't understand where the priority is
it's uh like in atlanta they have um they have mandatory catalytic converter inspections there's only three places in georgia
that requires that
and uh even with that it hasn't done any good
i mean obviously it's gotten a lot worse
but you know just like you say you go through there
and you watch all these trucks and they're just coughing out all kinds of stuff
some of them spitting it out
so thick you can't even see past it
you know i don't know
uh_huh
yeah
because of the stuff settles on it
yeah
yeah
i don't know things like you know
well like acid rain and all these sulphur [dioxides] being dumped out there
it's just like a big [avalanche] you know you start putting sulphur dioxide in the atmosphere and you end up with acid rain acid rain kills the trees trees don't scrub the air and there you are
and then of course you've got all these folks cutting down on the rain forest as quick as they can
i wonder too you know they keep talking about ozone [depletion] and all this
it it seems funny that it's coming around at the time when we're losing the most most of the forests because i i i think that a lot of the pollutants and stuff are being taken out of the air uh you know by the plants and the trees and all that good stuff
and here we are losing it
and now the
now it doesn't have any where to go
but uh_huh
yeah
well it's like our winter here
i mean it was the winter that wasn't you know we were having having hot days in december and january and got in
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
you you might as well sell it for scrap or something because you probably never will use it it's a shame too because i miss all the cold weather
i i enjoy winter
yeah
yeah
it was an interesting day
the other day uh i think it was um yeah
it was last not not this past friday
but friday a week ago we i don't know
i think you had some bad weather up there too
we had tornadoes and everything down here
um that was the most historic weather day in recorded history for severe weather in the country on that one day
i mean you know of course you always have severe weather somewhere
but there was more of it on that one day than ever recorded before over four hundred reports of tornadoes hail and heavy winds amazing
it's a little bit scary
yeah
um i read an article a couple weeks ago they were talking about uh talking again about the ozone layer they said that uh the ozone deteriorate is greater than they had originally thought over some of the major metropolitan areas
that's a little bit scary to think about
because that's certainly not going to improve things around there
yeah
well that's that's yeah
that had that had been the thing that had always i mean i i i have always thought about the ozone layer as sort of like a layer and it would move around
i'm not that much of a [meteorologist] but uh yeah
i was a little surprised at that too because up to that point all i'd heard about was the one over the pole
and i said well i'm not too awfully concerned about that
if it's going to start melting the ice cap it's not going to be for a long time yet
but opening opening up over major metropolitan areas now that's uh that's
yeah
yeah
yeah
course the ozone is up there
so
yeah
i i mean i don't even know i don't even know if the ozone layer does move
i mean apparently it doesn't
but of course it it might be just a couple of scientists trying to get their name in the paper sort of like cold fusion yeah
i'll tell you i i was real excited when i first heard that
i said hot dog they finally did it you know
i mean i'm
yeah
i mean i'm an old science fiction buff from way back when i was a little boy
and this is the kind of stuff that science fiction was made out of
and it's the days that i keep looking for that aren't going to happen in my lifetime
but you know we're supposed to have moon colonies by now
but uh yeah cold fusion would have been great could have gone might have started making a little [inroads] on air pollution with that
but who knows
yeah
yeah
there's there's always a drawback to everything i mean i don't know
well
okay
i pushed it
so what do you think um we can do to uh prevent air pollution
yeah
well you know what i was talking to my brother in denver
and he told me that they have restrictions on when they can burn their fireplace
yeah
i couldn't
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i just couldn't figure out how could they could restrict uh you know like a fireplace
because a lot of places that's all all the heat they have in
their home you know
well i know
yeah
isn't that terrible
well i don't know all i know is that we have to have our car our car [smogged] every two years you know
and uh
uh_huh
well you think that they would be able to do that you know
i think they could too you know
they just they don't want to they want to use uh you know something that's going to burn all this gas
so we can buy more gas
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i don't know about that either
but uh i know i took a ride down southern california just recently
and it was just amazing to look you know like being up higher and looking down and seeing all this crud you know
it's oh it's terrible
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it does it burns your eyes and everything
but a lot of these trucks that's on the road now to i think they could do something to those because some of those trucks just smoke like heck you know
but it doesn't seem like no one ever does anything about that
uh_huh
no
the electric cars i think that was a good idea
i would really go for that
yeah
right
right
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well uh we have a fireplace here to i don't burn it every night usually
i just have mine on the weekends or when i have company that we're going to be in the house all day you know
and it's just nice to sit in the living room with a fireplace going
but uh other than that i don't use mine
yeah
right
right
yeah
i know i think it's going to have to be these large companies and
hi [cynthia]  
what did you wear to work today  
so can you dress pretty casually  
yeah  
well i um run a business out of my home  
so i tend to get up in the morning put on   sweats um   do whatever i want to do with the kids then whenever i have a meeting with a client i'll put a suit on   and then come home and get back into regular clothes again  
yeah  
i've recently um tried to update my wardrobe trying to put suits together that i can [interchange] the   jackets and the blouses and all that a lot  
that's helped me a lot with having  
i can only have a a limited wardrobe since i'm only   working part time right now  
um but still it gives it some variety   add different blouses and [scarves] and belts and things like that  
what about your casual wear  
do you like to wear jeans most of the time  
yeah  
it's nice you can wear shorts especially on a day like today when it's so hot  
dress shorts  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it'll be comfortable  
i guess down here uh  
we just recently moved to texas  
so my wardrobe has changed quite a bit  
um we moved from colorado where  
and i have a closet full of sweaters  
that  
you live in virginia now  
oh that's interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd like to be able to wear those here  
today it's eighty eight degrees  
so  
needless to say my sweaters have been hung in the closet for quite a while now  
today was uh definitely a shorts day around here  
this is pretty [unseasonal]  
but uh at least we  
you know it it it feels good  
it gets uh  
everybody doesn't have cabin fever today  
it's nice to get   out and about  
okay  
sounds good  
it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
um let's see  
what did i wear to work today  
um actually i wore [corduroy] shorts with a white blouse um and flat shoes  
um on occasion   on occasion  
um i do vary  
um you know i wear suits  
i wear skirts and sweaters  
on occasion i can wear jeans  
um how about you  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um you know there's real no no real dress code where i work  
um you see people wearing you know all different attire  
i um don't like to wear heels that really tires me out  
i work in a big building  
so i predominantly wear flat shoes  
um you know in the winter i wear sweaters  
in summer i you know i like one piece dresses short [sleeves] things like that  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
[accessories]  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
mostly  
i mean at home i predominantly wear [sweatpants] and things like that   also  
yeah  
well they're um you know they're like  
yeah  
they're like black [corduroy] bermuda shorts  
and sometimes i wear a blazer with them  
and i get really a lot of [compliments] on them  
um where i work is predominantly male  
so you know they  
their attire is always the same you know suits or slacks   you know jeans whatever  
and um but i'm really the only woman i guess at work that does that  
but seems to work for me  
in fact i just bought i i just got a new outfit as a gift that um  
it's one of those [skorts]  
you know  
it's shorts but it looks like a skirt  
so i think that'll be good for work too  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well see i live in virginia  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so i'm  
you know like right now today was in about you know the fifties  
but um you know i i do wear a lot of sweaters and things like sweater dresses  
oh my  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we're still pretty much you know in winter as far as that goes here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess we've discussed everything there is about clothing  
okay  
okay  
it was nice talking to you also  
bye bye  
okay um  
i don't know about you  
but where i am we have a like an extremely lax dress policy at work  
and it varies like every day i mean from jeans one day to business suits the next  
it's pretty bad  
but it's true you know  
they tend to try to be you know real lax  
and supposedly the policy is like you know we you know we hire these wonderful creative people  
and we don't want to [smush] their creativity you know  
we want to go ahead and let them do what ever they want  
and you know you really will see people in in jeans one day and business suits the next  
yeah  
yeah  
you know we're kind of that way too  
i try to  
i'm the same way you are  
i kind of try to judge from day to day  
i know you know where i am we work a lot with the customers  
and we have a lot of government folks come in all the time  
and   and you know if i know that they're going to be there you know you i try to really watch it and like you say you know really dress up  
and if i know they're not you know  
i i've been doing a lot of [reorganization] you know the last couple of months the same way you are you know  
and it's just it's just impossible to crawl down on the floor and dig through boxes in a dress  
it is  
and so  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh no  
oh how awful  
it sounds like mister power hungry  
you know just yesterday though i saw a girl in the spine out here at lewisville that had on a pair of shorts  
and i don't care  
you can call them split skirts  
and you can call them [culottes] all you want  
but these were shorts  
that's all they were  
i don't care what else you call them you know  
if they're below the knee okay  
maybe you can call them split skirts  
if they're above the knee they turn into shorts you know  
and these weren't even really full ones  
i mean they had a problem out here with it last summer wearing these shorts that were you know the real wide full ones you know  
and these weren't even those  
these were like pretty short black  
and they were very dressy  
the were black [velvet] shorts  
and she had on black hose and black heels  
and she looked very very nice  
but you don't wear shorts to work  
you know i mean as far as i'm considered she was in violation  
and nobody says anything to them  
it's always been a big problem in lewisville in the summertime  
you know if they just you know  
the management doesn't ever seem to want to take an cut off you know that no  
this is wear we're going to draw the line  
this is shorts you know  
and and nobody will ever kind of take control and do that you know  
so it always gets annoying because the rest of us are going well god we have a pair of those at home too  
it sure would be cool and comfortable to wear you know  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
and then during the week you see these women in the you know  
just because you put on a pair of hose with them doesn't make them not shorts anymore you know  
i mean i've never seen them do it without hose  
i mean they always have hose on  
but still it's they're shorts  
i don't care what you say  
they're shorts  
well i think t i's dress code is pretty lax considering everything anyway you know uh  
oh do they really  
oh my god  
i i couldn't afford to work there  
oh no  
uh_huh  
t i says no shorts and no [halters]  
i know that's it  
wow  
i don't know that that would be a good environment to work in  
i mean i see  
i i am more  
i don't know about anybody else  
and a lot of bosses may say i'm nuts  
but i am more productive when i'm in pants  
i i am  
i work faster  
i get things done faster than when i'm in a dress and heels you know  
i  
and it's weird  
but i it's i do i can i can get so much more done if i'm dressed comfortable you know  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you can't do that in a skirt poor soul  
oh yuck  
yeah  
that's terrible  
that's terrible  
gosh  
well i don't know  
i just figure you know yeah  
sometimes i worry about you know if i go in in pants  
and i never i never ever ever ever go in in a pair of jeans you know  
but i'll go in in pants  
i mean today i had on a pair of you know navy blue dress slacks and and uh like a peach colored top and you know not [cruddy] but not a dress either  
and sometimes i wonder if stuff like that would will hold you back you know if you don't dress in you know your dress for success business suits everyday if you know if upper management doesn't notice that and remember that later on  
but you know i don't know if they do or not  
you know i see a lot of the managers  
and they're in jeans  
so you know  
really wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
isn't that funny  
that's great  
yeah  
that's the way to do it i mean that's the smart way to do it  
it really is because your making you know  
if when they're meeting with the engineers who they know are going to be dressed down if they come in in you know a six hundred dollar three piece suit it's going to make the people they're meeting with feel very uncomfortable you know  
or it would me you know  
yeah  
yeah  
look at this slick guy  
i wonder what kind of money does he make  
uh_huh  
i can see it now  
well it was good to talk to you  
it was really enjoyable  
it really is  
oh yuck  
yeah  
well it's kind of enjoyable  
i'm really looking forward to it  
well thanks a lot  
bye bye  
well i'm kind of that way too  
i work in the legal department  
and where we are now what we're doing is some very big lawsuits that happen to have a heck of a lot of boxes of documents  
and i get to [toting] around boxes of documents several times a day  
it always seems like i'm doing that  
and i can't see getting dressed up and wearing heels and stuff when you have to carry you know boxes of documents around  
so if i'm just going to be there working in the litigation center and doing you know odds and ends and stuff with the boxes of documents i dress down  
but if we're going to have a meeting where we're having the attorneys come in or people from uh other [party's] attorneys and stuff then i normally dress up  
yeah  
and i'll wear a dress and hose and stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
as a matter of fact i thought i had one funny story  
when uh i was at t i the first year or so we were sent out to our record retention facility to look through two thousand boxes  
we had them in the warehouse  
and at that point it the warehouse was over across the road  
and it wasn't air conditioned  
and it we were there like in the middle of the summer  
it's [unair] conditioned  
it was dusty and dirty uh  
there was like a fan at the very end of the row  
and that was it  
and so we didn't really know we weren't supposed to  
we thought t i dress code was just dress appropriate to your job  
we wore shorts  
we didn't know that was a big no no  
and the supervisor from another area came up to us  
and you know this area where record retention is there's only a few people that work there  
and he he knew who worked there  
he should have realized that we weren't [regulars] in the warehouse there  
and he came up to us  
and he just said who's your supervisor  
well he called our supervisor and our supervisor and our [supervisor's] supervisor  
and it went up all the way to the head of facilities   complaining that we were wearing shorts  
he didn't at at least say to us did you know you're not supposed to do that  
that could have [alleviated] a big problem  
we ended up getting called out on it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
yeah  
um  
well i've seen some people try to just come in like over the weekend because they want to use the [texteller] machine  
and they have said no  
yeah  
i know i didn't know that e d s has a very strict dress code  
i had a friend  
oh definitely  
i had a friend who worked there for a year or so  
and they spell it out  
for men it's particular suits uh the pin [stripe] and the particular colors of shirts and wing tipped shoes  
oh it is definitely lined out  
women are not allowed to wear slacks  
you wear coordinated suits  
and and a particular kind of shoe you know so high heel  
oh it is spelled out  
when i was looking at her materials when she first started you know she had her benefits package and all that kind of stuff  
and it told about the dress code  
and it said these are the color pastel shirts you may wear or white shirts with this kind of [stripe] in it for the men and this kind of shoe and hair just this way  
yeah  
and e d s is very particular about this hair cuts  
i mean it was like you can't have you know such and such [facial] hair no [beards] you know and just really detailed  
well the the time we were there at the warehouse we felt really bad because we had uh another person coming from washington our outside counsel  
and she was told that we were going to be in a warehouse  
but she really didn't get the idea that we were in the warehouse part of the warehouse not the office to the warehouse but the warehouse  
and she came with skirts just like she'd be going into the office  
and we'd try we'd try to say didn't you bring any pants or anything  
we're we're out here in the warehouse you know  
you you got your skid of you know that wooden [pallet] of boxes  
and you're going to have unload you skid look at the documents in the in the boxes and then [repack] your skid  
and she   and she was so she was so hot and miserable you know in the skirt  
she finally tried to go buy you know a pair of pants  
but you know i mean it was just completely miserable for her  
some of our people in the legal department  
we have um assistants to the general counsel  
and it's funny  
because there's one that always wears a suit  
a matter of fact he's never seen without his jacket to the suit on [buttoned]  
and then there's another one who's who's a little younger and a little more [yuppish]  
and he's always kind of like in the [khaki] pants and you know a shirt  
and sometimes he wears the jacket to it  
and some of the [patent] attorneys have been real casual in their clothes  
and then other ones tend to always wear a suit with a very [starched] cotton shirt  
so that's just  
with the you know the little [suspenders] or something on  
so   we've we've kind of had a variety there  
but i think a lot of times it's it's mainly who they're going to meet with  
or they're meeting with people that they know is going to be dressed that way then that's how they are  
if there just going to be meeting with t i like to talk about a [patent] kind of thing and the they're engineers that they're talking too they dress kind of like how the engineers are dressed  
and they're usually casual  
yeah  
it's one of those [slippery] attorneys coming in here  
yeah  
this is this is kind of a fun project  
i've done some of the other speech programs  
but we've never got to talk to another person  
it was always just talking to the computer  
so this is a little different  
yeah  
okay  
bye  
well uh i am basically retired now  
i was a member  
i was in education and in administration  
so basically i wore dresses   and uh heels  
and i was never one uh because my work often took me into court uh never was one that got uh accustomed to wearing pants suits and pants to work  
but that was just me  
i know many people are very comfortable in the classroom and what have you wearing pants  
uh it  
i guess i was just old enough not to uh be very comfortable in it  
how about you  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
and i think that does make a difference  
because when you do have to be in front of people   uh i think you the the tendency there is to wear dresses and suits and and uh more classical style of clothing  
what about the mini skirt  

uh_huh  
well there are mini skirts and there are mini skirts  
there are some that are really short  
and then there are some that may be will come like four inches or five inches above the knee  
and again it depends upon the size the shape of the person   as well as the shape of the person's legs  
now i also uh  
even though i retired from education i uh i do modeling  
and i teach at a modeling agency here  
and uh so when we are doing [wardrobing] and we have uh two two hour classes in wardrobe we do discuss a great deal the mini skirt and the types of clothes to wear on the job  
uh even though i may have them from sixth grade on up through uh grandmothers   in my class  
and uh i always try to emphasize the clothes that you wear should not necessarily be the greatest fad  
because maybe they those are not the clothes that are the most uh appealing to you or the most uh [complimentary] to you  
but uh the mini skirt many times will [evoke] comments you don't really want  
and and then uh then you're in the situation where you're very unhappy  
that's right  
well i i uh i have to uh agree with that even when they was very very popular in the early sixties  
uh i uh uh  
again maybe because i was at the school there were still many teachers who wore mini skirts  
uh we had no regulation against it  
and a lot of the kids did of course  
and it could be very embarrassing for the men teachers  
because they were not that careful in how they handled themselves in those mini skirts  
and so i think uh uh of course now i go the other extreme i do not like to see in the corporate areas uh all the women dressed like men   with the suits and uh white shirts and ties and what have you so that they all look exactly the same  
uh i don't like that  
i don't  
i think there should be individuality in dressing  
yes  
right  
well i and i don't think that you have to be [manish] and extremely tailored to to look professional  
i think that you you make of that what you wish  
and you can go the opposite direction and uh over do all the frills and [laces] and [flounces] and what have you which don't belong in the in at least in my opinion in the work place  
uh but that that  
you can have a classical look without a lot of a great deal of [adornment] and what have you and still be very feminine  
because that was one thing i always fought against  
i started out as a physical education teacher  
so i was always fighting against the idea of looking tailored or [manish]  
uh and people would never ever guess that i was [phys] ed  
and um and that pleased me  
uh and so then i of course just continued what i considered the best style of clothing for me at work  
and uh and i find even even at home here now i i will wear blue jeans or i'll wear shorts and what have you uh and be very comfortable  
but when i go out somewhere then uh unless i have a pair of dress slacks i don't usually wear a lot of blue jeans  
i have difficulty getting them to fit me comfortably any how  
and so uh uh i just feel that uh you know each person has to dress to their own liking and for their own comfort  
but uh there are certain norms that companies should be able to uh put out as guidelines for their employees  
right  
yes  
yes  
that's good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i don't either  
fortunately i don't have to work in those companies  
but uh i i uh did have a group come over from one of the banks over the children's hospital where i was volunteering  
and uh they were doing a presentation  
and every one of the young [execs] coming up were dressed exactly a like men and women  
they all had on the gray jackets and the gray [trousers] or or skirts and the white blouses and the same color tie  
i mean you could hardly tell the women from the men except for the lengths of the pants   and one was a skirt and one was a pant  
and uh and i think that's sad because that doesn't allow for any individuality  
that's uh can [stifle] creativity  
so  
i guess so  
well it's been nice talking with you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you usually wear to work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i work at t i  
and they don't really have uh dress code so to speak there  
it's pretty lax about um you know  
you can pretty much wear whatever you want to  
and i wear anything from jeans when i'm feeling really casual to uh suits and dresses when i'm meeting with a customer  
or i i teach training classes   and so when i'm teaching a class obviously i wear a suit or dress  
so   it it uh definitely [fluctuates] mainly with what i'm going to be doing that day and kind of what my mood is  
and when it's raining   i'm more likely to wear jeans  
and and when it's really cold i'm more likely to wear jeans or pants or sweaters or that type of thing  
um but it just really depends on the weather and my mood  
and then you know obviously when i'm doing anything that i'm in front of people or or making presentations teaching whatever   i'm going to dress up more  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there are a few people every now and then that wear those to work  
there pretty strict about that though  
um i've never worn  
i just wouldn't  
i mean even to  
well jeans aren't exactly professional  
but for some reason a mini skirt is to me a little more [unprofessional] to wear to work than jeans  
just because it's maybe it's just because of the [sexist] views and everything  
but you just feel like you're you're being showing too much  
i don't know  
i wouldn't want to wear a mini skirt to work  
i have seen a few people do it though  
but they they weren't overly  
and they weren't overly [revealing]  
they were pretty much in good taste  
but um  
for me i just i just wouldn't want to do that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's what i've seen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well i feel like too on the job when you know there's men around and some of the managers are men you just you know you don't want them looking at your legs necessarily  
and uh to me i just wouldn't feel comfortable in that at work  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
even with the very tailored look of a suit sometimes i like to have a just a little something that's feminine  
not you know  
you don't want to over do it but just a little a touch of it just to say yes i am a woman  
but i can be professional too  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's what i one thing i like about t i is that they aren't overly strict about what you wear  
and they don't you know your boss doesn't come up to you and say now remember tomorrow you have a meeting so you'd better wear a suit  
i mean they they leave it up to you and your judgment to   to use good judgment and dress [tastefully] and dress for whatever occasion you may have  
the only real restrictions they have are uh no [halter] tops and no shorts even the long walking short of the [squirts] the the split skirts   anything that that could be considered shorts they don't allow  
and they don't allow uh any sweat any sweat shirts or t shirts that might have [vulgar] or you know anything like that on it  
but   other than that it's pretty pretty lax  
and i think that's good because it does allow people to be individual  
and it allows you to kind of dress the way you feel that day  
or you know if you want to be comfortable and casual you can  
and sometimes i think you may be more productive if you're comfortable with what your wearing and can be be feel more relaxed   whereas uh sometimes when your in the suit and feel kind of almost stiff and you're not you know maybe you don't uh can't get as comfortable to sit down  
and you know like when i'm writing training material i prefer to be more comfortable unless i know i have to meet with a customer later during the day  
so that's i think that is good that they're like that  
i do know there's a lot of companies that are very strict about what the employees wear  
and they must wear blue or gray or black and a white shirt and   you know no variation  
and i don't i don't quite agree with that  
right  
uh right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i agree  
well it  
i guess we've talked probably long enough  
nice talking to you too  
i enjoyed it  
bye bye  
okay uh  
i was just trying to think about how i how i dress for work you know  
t i is a very casual atmosphere  
and uh what i usually do on the weekend is is lay out five outfits  
and uh on monday i i wear the the worst looking one   because it doesn't seem like people are really you know are that alive on monday you know  
so  
and then [progressively] through the week i'll i'll wear nicer looking things  
and then on friday most everybody wears jeans jeans and sweatshirts or you know jeans and blouses or something like that  
uh but mostly what i wear are skirts and blouses or you know skirts and uh pullover sweaters or uh you know little two piece dress suit suits like  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
like where i work it's it's pretty casual uh  
it's it's i guess it's more like a a college campus  
also i mean there's you know hundreds of people work for t i  
and uh a lot of people just just wear jeans and and uh sweats all the time  
and they dress up like when customers are coming in   or uh when we have department meetings or something like that  
and uh you know a lot of people like those that work in the legal department for their the real uh higher ups   like the the the t i lawyers and uh those that work for the the higher executives those secretaries they uh they really dress up all the time  
so there's a good combination in the hallways all the time you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that's very acceptable at t i  
i believe at i b m they they make you wear a blue suit and uh some kind of colored shirt and a tie  
uh_huh  
i i would hate to be in that atmosphere  
uh_huh  
oh  
i see  
yeah  
oh t i is everywhere  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's a good idea  
uh_huh  
the  
no  
right  
yeah  
and if you happen to go into one of areas that is a smoke smoke area and you don't smoke you almost [strangle]  
so much smoke in the air  
yeah  
areas the smoking area you know it's closed in  
and if you if you don't smoke and you go in there  
everybody that goes in there smokes  
so it's full of smoke when when you go in there  
i used to smoke a long time ago  
i used to burn my clothes talking about getting back to clothes  
i used to burn my clothes with cigarettes  
that's one of the reason that i stopped  
yeah  
she always had uh yeah she always had to have a lot of clothes  
no  
i i wasn't either  
she my daughter she's real good at finding sales though you know  
she'll buy a lot of   yeah she'll buy a lot clothes at the end of seasons you know   and uh just have them for the next year  
and she you know she finds all the outlets and all the discount places and uh buys clothes  
uh you know when they were coming up i i didn't sew  
but now i've i've learned how to sew  
so i'm well i'm i'm still learning how  
but i'm and i'm getting much better at it  
and i   i'm going to be able to make my own clothes  
right  
right  
because clothes are are really expensive   you know  
uh uh a little simple shell shell blouse you know that you can make for about say ten dollars at you know at at the most out of a decent fabric   boy runs you like twenty something dollars in the store  
just a little shell to go under a suit you know  
uh_huh  
right  
especially to pay that kind of money for it  
i have a friend who uh  
she had a she had a a little boy  
and uh she used to dress him out of [neiman] [marcus]  
i mean   she dressed him uh [fabulously]  
and then seems like every time she turned around he was [outgrowing] stuff  
and she finally learned that you just can not do this you know  
so now she finds the basement sales and just like you know everybody else  
right  
yes  
and you  
right  
and yeah  
and you just have to keep buying them you know  
if you if you if you're not buying the most expensive clothes out there the the quality is really not that great you know for the price that you pay  
right  
right  
like i bought i bought the most beautiful uh sweater from uh i believe it was ross dress for less  
and it it was really pretty  
it was just you know it was just plain a plain uh you know round uh [necked] uh sweater  
and it had like it was [embellished] around the the top you know  
it had uh leather leather designs and um some other other little things on it  
and i just thought it was so pretty  
and i i got it at a real good price  
i think maybe it was nine ninety nine or something  
and it was so pretty  
and after i wore it a couple of times i realized why why it was   it was so cheap  
there was in the middle of the back of it there was  
it's like there  
it had been [slit]  
and they had like just sewed it back together   right in the middle of the back you know  
wasn't a seam or anything you know  
and that's why it was so cheap although it's not it's not really noticeable uh from the outside  
but   but still it's you know it's really not not not a good quality  
and then i was told by somebody that works for j c penney's that uh ross ross is just one of those places that sell sells seconds  
yeah  
yeah  
um they don't really buy the first quality  
they buy the second  
and uh places like j c penney's that they'll reject the seconds  
they'll send them back every time  
but places like ross dress for less and uh t j max  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah uh  
you know that's a good way to approach it  
i've never thought about um  
i do plan my clothes a week in advance  
actually i plan them a month in advance  
i usually do a month at a time  
so i don't repeat an outfit  
but um i've never thought about wearing your worst outfit on monday because really no one's paying attention  
but anyway um i really i don't work outside of school  
um i work in the computer lab at school  
so i can just wear whatever i have on for school  
an and um and really it's  
i try to dress [presentable] but very comfortable  
like um in the warm weather it's always shorts and a t shirt or a button up or something like that  
and then in the winter time it's jeans or or pants  
i usually uh you know  
college is so casual  
you really don't want to dress up unless you you uh have a job  
and you have to be there right after school or something like that  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
well that's good that they're so casual  
i mean uh my brother works for t i  
and he's a computer programmer or computer engineer  
and uh you know whenever he was going to school he was expecting to having to wear uh a tie or a dress shirt everyday  
but uh he goes to work in his blue jeans t shirt   and tennis shoes  
and he just loves it  
yeah  
that's what i've heard  
but uh i mean they they just moved into the new building  
he calls it the new building  
i don't know  
it's where all the executives are  
and um and so they were they were going to try to take their blue jean code with them and trying to get all the all the upper level to start wearing blue jeans  
but he just left for italy today at four  
and he'll be over there until july first setting up some kind of computers for them  
over in t i mean for t i but over in italy  
oh yeah  
he was so excited about going  
but uh he didn't carry any ties or anything because he he just went over there with the that attitude well if i don't take it then they won't make me wear it  
because uh he just he didn't you know  
he's not really into all that  
he would wear it if he had to for his job and all  
but you know if he had the preference i mean his his preference is um blue jeans and a t shirt  
so  
but i think that's great about t i  
and also uh to get off the clothing the smokers you know how they have the   the different designated areas for smokers and stuff  
i think that's great  
oh really  
do you smoke  
uh_huh  
i think that's um  
well um you mentioned your daughter had graduated from college  
well when she was in high school did she always have to have all the new fashions  
and uh  
see that's how that's how i am  
but my mamma was not raised like that  
and so  
oh me to  
boy i have   to hunt them down  
uh_huh  
that's great  
i wanted to take a sewing class at school  
but i just haven't fit it into my schedule yet  
but that i mean that can really benefit  
um that's something that i'd be very interested in very interested in learning  
uh they're outrageous  
uh_huh  
yeah it's   it's marked up  
it is it is really outrageous  
but uh i mean like whenever i i was growing up and all my mom  
i never understood this then  
but i do now  
but she never would buy me like the new [designer] jeans that had come out that were thirty dollars  
or   um or she wouldn't buy me the fifty dollar tennis shoes and stuff like that  
and she always told me it was because i was still growing  
and she wasn't going to buy me something i was going to grow out of next week  
yeah  
oh no  
uh_huh  
that's the best way to shop  
i mean i always thought my mom was being mean to me  
but i look back at it now  
and my child is going to  
i mean i'm going to raise mine the same way  
um i don't know  
i just they're just so outrageously priced  
it's just incredible  
i try to uh always catch the sales  
always  
yeah  
it it depends on um  
yeah  
there's there's always a reason why they're on sale  
so that that has a lot to do with it  
but um  
well  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh-oh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
the [defect]  
uh_huh  
t j max does that  
yeah  
we have a t j max over here  
and um  
okay  
guess we can go ahead  
uh well i guess you know it's you know  
since living in dallas it's always so hot so in the summertime i just i wear lots of shorts so because i don't work during the day  
so do you work  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and buying suits and stuff yeah because just being at home  
and i work at home  
so   i just have you know i just wear my you know my shorts and stuff like that  
i don't go out and spend lots of money on uh different you know suits and stuff you know  
but when i  
before i got married you know i was working  
so i uh you know i had more suits and stuff then  
but  
worry about all that kind of stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
when you're training right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
moved from   winter  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because i came from wyoming  
and i had wool suits and wool skirts  
and   you know i've got all these clothes that i never wear   because you can't wear them here  
and uh the seasons are just so much different  
you have so much summer  
and uh so then when i you know i finally get a chance to go out with my husband it's like a real chore to find something nice to wear  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you hate to get rid of it because you know how much you spent on them  
and it's real hard to get rid of some of that stuff i know  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
clothes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i i just don't spend you know  
right now my clothes come from target you know  
yes  
and they  
you take them out of the drier  
and they're [wadded] up in a ball  
oh  
i'm so glad to meet somebody that that their iron board is their permanent fixture in their house  
you know i have very little furniture  
but my ironing board is part of my [decor]  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well yeah  
it is it is  
but it's like uh i just don't want to do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's an idea  
yeah  
yeah  
i you know  
if i have  
if i know i'm having somebody come over to the house and there's a possibility they might be going back into my room   i will put it away  
but i iron our clothes as we go along  
so you know  
right  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you can't iron it all  
and  
yeah  
and then with my kids they're always getting into you know  
they can't decide what they want to wear so they   change their minds you know i know i mean my oldest is only four  
but she's still changes her mind two or three times   before she figures out what she's going to wear  
so  
and then they never put anything back  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that that's called smart you know they don't we don't do that kind of stuff you know   that's called too easy on mom  
our lot in life is to make her life miserable  
so  
uh  
yeah  
well that's  
it's been good talking to you to see somebody hear somebody that does the same thing i do because i tell people what i do  
and they just go oh how do you do that  
it's like it's easy you just do it you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think i'd know what to do if it wasn't there you know  
my husband wouldn't know where to hang his dirty clothes  
you know  
yeah  
he wouldn't know where to put things  
so  
yeah  
so  
oh it was nice talking with you too  
take care  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do work  
uh and  
but i work at a manufacturing plant  
so i wear a lot of blue jeans   and t shirts  
but occasionally i have to get dressed up and wear [panty] hose and a dress   and high heel shoes  
and i feel really uncomfortable doing that  
and   in the plant so uh it's it's a problem for me  
but normally i just wear blue jeans and a t shirt  
very very comfortable  
i like that so much better than having to wear dress clothes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i have plenty of suits and dress clothes because i'm like you when i first started working   uh i have all these suits and blouses and skirts and mix and match and that kind of stuff  
but now that i you know work in the manufacturing plant then it's just it's so much more difficult for me to to actually get dressed up to come in to work like that  
uh but occasionally i have to because uh part of my job is teaching   and training  
and uh so you have to look just a little bit nicer than your normal   [garb]  
than your normal [garb]  
but i'm like you too uh i moved from ohio down to here  
and i had mostly [polyesters] and   [wools] and winter clothes   and buying all these cotton clothes  
and then of course you have to iron them all the time  
that's really  
that's been a problem for me  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's true that's true  
well i know i was just now uh uh putting away a lot of my winter clothes  
and i was going through here  
and i was thinking i haven't worn this in three years  
and because it's a wool skirt  
and there's just not that many opportunities to wear it  
and i have five or six wool skirts  
so i was thinking well maybe you know i need to think about getting rid of them  
but no i folded it up [neatly] and put it away maybe next year  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know i agree with you  
well i know last year uh well this past winter it wasn't that cold  
but the previous winter we had more uh cold weather where i was able to actually wear   your double and triple [layerings] of uh clothes   yeah like you would when you're up north  
so   that's really interesting  
yes  
yes  
yes  
and they're all one hundred percent cotton  
and  
yes  
yes  
i know  
so i uh i have my ironing board sitting out all the time   i never put mine away  
it is it is  
that's true  
and and i've been looking at these uh uh like in home depot where you can go and they've got that ironing boards that will just flip right down off of the uh uh what the the the door  
and uh  
and then you can actually have one where you can put it inside of a wall you know to have it   permanently attached  
and that's what i'm thinking i'm going to have to do because mine's sitting right out in front of my bedroom  
and it's just it's just an [eyesore] i think   with all the  
uh uh  
uh uh  
no  
i've been thinking about putting the ironing board in the closet   and and running you know a line in there for my iron so i could do it in there  
and i wouldn't have to have that [eyesore]  
yeah  
so i have a big closet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i no longer do that weekly thing   because i have so many  
and i'm like you   i the night before or that day i will iron whatever it is that we need  
and that's it  
because it's too many  
hundred percent cotton  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh i know i know  
no  
no  
of course not  
no  
that uh that would be too simple  
absolutely not  
that's right  
uh_huh  
absolutely absolutely  
oh  
that's right  
that's right you do you do  
so uh  
but yeah  
i uh i know several of my girlfriends though we uh we all keep our ironing boards out and just uh an ever present thing in our household  
so  
there you go  
things that need to be [mended]   things that have to get [ironed]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
oh well it was nice talking with you  
okay  
take care  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
all right  
and and your occupation is teaching  
substitute teacher  
yes  
it is it is  
right  
well i was just trying to make an introduction here  
but oh and and i haven't told you i'm going to be at a different school this year now  
i've just gotten a another job at an elementary library at [barron]  
right  
i  
well not really  
i've got the every day i've got to uh read to kindergartners  
so i'm going to be down on the floor with them  
i've got about forty kindergartners i'm going to be doing working with every day for uh you know a half hour  
so i'll be i'll probably be wearing slacks as often as i do because i'm i'm if i'm going to be down on the floor messing with them i'm not going to wear nylons and you know   nice nylons and dresses  
right  
well of course you've been at clark enough that you know it's always cold  
but you don't know uh i guess at some of the other schools you go to unless you've been there  
subtract  
right  
i i think some of the dress codes are different at different schools  
that's one of things one of the things i ask about you know whether whether she would allow slacks  
and she said she doesn't have a problem with that  
she just didn't like sloppy dressing  
and and i said well you know that was okay  
and i'm  
basically i just you know i wear slacks year round except every about once a week i try to wear a skirt  
and and in the winter you know i just add a maybe wear longer sleeve shirts than i do in the summer and add a heavier jacket or you know wear jackets more in the winter than i do in the summer  
that's about  
i don't i don't really work in a profession that requires that i wear a business suit and you know look really  
yeah  
right  
and you never know that though   sometimes when you're going in do you  
right  
right  
right  
on what thursday  
right  
right  
so that would kind of give you a a clue i guess  
and and sometimes you get the long term stuff  
so you're aware ahead of time   of what's going on  
that  
so that's  
and i don't know you know  
i i think about well the dress code they have for the kids you know  
are  
they put one on the parents or the teachers and say they have to the men have to wear ties  
and there can be no blue jeans worn  
and because some of the teachers i know wear uh dress up jeans not sloppy looking jeans   but [tapered] jeans that they've had dry cleaned so they have got the [crease]  
and uh you know they'll wear it with a nice top  
and and uh i don't know that that looks that bad  
but if you're going to tell the kids they have to dress up i guess you can tell the teachers that too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
there's a couple   teachers up there that that do dress up more than others  
right  
right  
well and you always  
course it's a standing joke you know when the when the men come in in a a tie and a suit coat you say you know what have you got a job interview today  
or   there there's   there's usually yeah there's usually something going on that that uh and would would uh cause that to happen  
and i i don't know how a coach would feel if that teaches health or you know english or whatever that they had to wear a tie  
i  
some of those male coaches that might really  
right  
and a t shirt  
right  
that i didn't ever understand  
i mean we've got coaches that teach health for five periods and then have athletics sixth period  
so  
whether  
change then  
well see that's what i would think  
that's what i would think  
right  
course we had had one coach one period he'd teach p e and the next period health and then a period of p e  
and and that's hard  
you know so he just left warm ups on  
but but uh no  
i think really probably they could they could uh really  
and i don't know if if they put make uniforms the thing for the kids  
i guess the teachers will have to follow suit with a dark skirt and a white top  
and  
you don't think so  
well some of them yes they do  
and and it's not   at some of the private schools  
but even there's a couple public schools in dallas where where the kids wear uniforms and the teachers you know dress   in [accordance] with that  
uh_huh  
well i i think it would make a difference at school  
i i don't think we should be spending time saying somebody's wearing torn clothing or wearing too shorts too short  
or they've got the really short skirt and the black nylons and the high you know  
i mean   it's a lot of trouble to to take care of that  
and of course the kids say then why bother just let me wear what i want  
and and yet we can't to that either  
i'd like to see them go to to not necessarily a uniform but saying that they've got to wear a button down shirt you know  
that would that would alleviate any t shirts with sayings on them  
but if they could wear a button down shirt and a pair of dark slacks and they could buy them anywhere they wanted  
and  
and then the girls  
right  
i don't  
no  
not in plano  
they may get  
but they said in the dallas schools that that helps their educational process there  
highland [park's] thinking about going that route  
so it  
and then i think that's going to push teachers to dress a lot more professionally than they do  
yeah  
i agree with you on  
i'm a i'm a substitute teacher  
is is this pat i'm talking to now  
yeah  
i'm a substitute teacher in i believe the same school system we both work in  
oh okay  
oh  
well i bet you're you're you may dress differently then for that  
well   what i wear sometimes depends on on how cold i think the school might be or what room i might be in   since i'm a sub and have different rooms to go to and always carry a sweater  
yes  
no  
you try to layer so you can add or or   or take off  
and it's it's interesting to notice when you go to different schools that some are a little more fancier than others and have a very casual uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and well for me sometimes they even have dress up days  
or they you know have have spirit week that that you wear your different outfits  
and you have to have the color for that particular school if you if you choose to participate in   spirit week  
and one might be a hat day where you have to come up with some   sort of hat  
no  
but because i sort of stick to several schools uh i'm usually aware that there might be a spirit week going on and and might might remember to do it  
and then many schools on a particular day during uh i guess football season maybe all year long they wear the school colors for uh game day   which  
right  
it might be thursday for the high schools  
and it may be friday for the senior high schools  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it  
i see that the  
i think the elementary school teachers or maybe even the middle school teachers dress a little fancier than than some of the high school teachers i think  
but it i think it varies it it just so much  
anything anything can go  
and you can see in some of the departments in some of the schools like history at clark they're all pretty fancy  
but they're just sort of into clothes  
and then there's other departments   that aren't  
and they'll just wear your common ordinary you know whatever you might   might say  
right  
and so you try to maybe follow those if you know you're going there  
you don't want to dress too tacky because you're going to be in the same room with them  
or you're going   to be observed  
yeah  
right  
they go around in their little coaching shorts or   [parachute] pants  
yeah  
well at   vines the coaches don't do that  
they they dress pretty good i would say  
and then they go to their coaching  
and they they put their shorts   on there  
uh_huh  
but they they don't look you know they don't wear their sweat pants or or anything  
they're they dress like any other teacher would in   in a classroom situation not in p e  
those i can understand  
yeah  
i don't think we'll ever get to that  
no  
i don't think  
i think we're going the opposite direction  
it's the parochial schools that i guess many  
they've had uniforms for years  
i don't really know if they still do  
it certainly makes it easier to dress  
uh_huh  
well it's certainly cheaper and easier in the long run i think that you don't have to be concerned about your wardrobe  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i doubt that that would come   that that will come about  
just  
yeah  
i i  
no  
not  
yeah  
well i think it does  
it it takes their minds off of of trying to compete  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i don't think a lot of teachers are very professional  
but  
hi uh  
basically i wear pants  
i'm a real pants person  
and uh like when i'm at home since  
and i'll say i'm a homemaker since that's my basic thing uh  
i wear a pantsuit most of the time  
not a pantsuit  
i guess pants and a shirt  
and uh in the summertime i wear cotton tops  
cotton top shirts  
and in the winter i wear uh like sweaters  
i like sweaters a lot  
and so i do that  
but when i go out for meetings uh then i will wear either uh skirts or uh a dress  
and i have a couple of [pantsuits] because those are real in at this time  
but that's basically what i do  
oh  
right  
well that sounds nice  
uh it said the seasons  
do do you change much through the season  
or  
uh_huh  
maybe  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
then  
uh well i don't have the resources to just go out and buy buy buy anyway  
and so my don't change dramatically over the years  
if i need something new i will go and buy it  
but basically i'm a a pretty much the same  
in the summertime i wear the light cotton  
and in the wintertime i change to the sweaters  
and so it's not a whole lot of of change for me either  
and uh especially when i go to the meetings and wear the dresses  
i i i enjoy that  
but it just wouldn't be uh smart for me to do that in my home with my children  
so i have to uh think about things like that too  
i have given seminars before in in creative writing and things like that  
now i don't know if they consider that a job  
i don't really get paid for that uh often  
but uh when i do that then i i think i become more businesslike  
uh but it doesn't really change my clothing style  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
that's not helpful  
yeah  
i guess so  
well it's been great talking to you  
have a great day  
bye  
hello  
well i think our tastes are fairly similar  
although i am i government worker i do tend to  
i'm uh a scientist  
so that technically  
i suppose i could get away with with extremely casual clothes  
but for the most port part i don't  
i wear fairly respectable looking shoes  
and   and a pantsuit of one sort or another  
and uh i guess dress it up with a with a a very nice black jacket when i have have visitors or have to give talks  
right  
no  
actually i guess this summer i i wore some fairly nice jeans   uh more than i have in previous seasons  
but uh no  
i tend to to use the same things because actually our offices are very cold in summer  
i don't know whether they think by you know freezing them up overnight then they can save electricity during the day or something  
but   but you know you wear a heavy sweater in your office   all summer  
so right  
uh yeah  
i don't i don't i you know i'm not a clothes horse in the sense that some of my friends  
and i guess although in as i recall the stereotype of of secretaries was you know [overdress] over kill sort of  
and   in a in a sense the people i know who spend the most on clothes are secretaries  
although the fact that most of the ones i know are in the government and they're not meeting the public   it i find it a little bit strange that their priorities would would be to spend this money here  
you know  
i mean i suppose if you were a a more a receptionist and meeting the public and it was the image of your company at stake   perhaps you would have to dress up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
i mean you can look businesslike in in a the same pant suit you would you know   wear for other things  
yeah  
i'm i'm really glad about that pant suits are popular because i'm allergic to many of the [synthetics]  
and so i used to have a problem when when i was working in a restaurant while i was in college   and had to dress up and nylons and things like that would just give me a terrible [rash]  
so   right  
right  
but otherwise now i'm i guess we're both pretty practical  
okay  
well have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
why don't you start  
so you probably have a job you need to get to pretty soon  
oh you are  
oh wonderful  
well how do you dress for work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you're in a church there  
uh_huh  
well i'm working this is my first morning to work down at our little church preschool  
and they've told me to wear just something terribly comfortable because these are two year olds  
and they have a lot of uh they have bible lessons  
and they have all the things during the morning  
but they still have snack time and play time  
so i'm going to be dressing just in casual slacks and t shirts probably not blue jeans but little bit short of that just just tennis shoes and play clothes  
yeah  
i'm envious  
well it's a beautiful day here  
and it's in the sixties  
but we still have a lot of hot afternoons  
it's supposed to be eighty five today  
so you'll still see people  
it it's kind of an in between change that they're in their play clothes i mean they're in their summer clothes during the afternoons because you just can't stand the sweaters  
but in the mornings people are dressing for work in their sweaters because they just want it to be fall so badly  
did you  
i understand  
well so are the people around you um dressing similar to you  
uh_huh  
so you don't have to you don't have to buy the lot of the wardrobe that some of the people in banking and that kind of thing do  
well that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
well that's wonderful  
well my husband has to take the bus into dallas and doesn't return all day  
so he has to dress  
and he just really hates it  
they have the long sleeve shirts and the whole tie and the whole suit  
and even when his job is not going to be with people all day long he said it's just part of the uniform and the expected image that they have to dress  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that's i think that's great  
i think that's good  
i understand  
well another interesting thing on the our our end here is how even in my forties how much younger i dress than my mother would have in her forties  
and i will run around to the store in things in slacks and tennis shoes  
and she  
right  
and [pearls]  
and she would not have even probably owned a pair of tennis shoes after she got out of high school  
so uh she tells me i dress young  
but that's okay  
well there's not a lot more i can think of to discuss on clothing  
i guess this is what you call a natural end  
well we wear  
of course like i said if my husband's going downtown he's got the whole uh you know the dress men's dress shoes  
but for as out here just anything that the moms  
we all kind of have our own little dress code of just either tennis shoes or little [loafers] and and uh [tights] and things that feel comfortable to us around our kids  
yeah  
i'm sure they are there  
yeah  
i'm sure they are  
that's right  
i'm sure that true  
it's a lot different than working in a kids preschool  
that's right  
well you all have a nice day there  
thank you very much  
bye bye  
i'm already on my job  
so you you reached me at my job  
my my dress for work uh most of the time is uh rather comfortable and casual   uh usually uh slacks and a soft colored shirt  
the um thing that that [distinguishes] me a lot of the time when i have to dress real professionally for a meeting or something is i wear a clerical collar   and a suit and uh all of that sort of thing  
but when i don't need to dress up for a a meeting or a   service of some sort i don't  
yes  
well around there you can probably wear uh t shirts and other things  
but around here at this time of the year   we are into sweaters   and uh coats  
today today we we wear coats  
and   as the day uh warms up we may go to light jackets  
but i don't think there's an escape from light jackets  
the wind will take away a lot of body heat  
very similar  
no  
i'm not stuck with that   kind of a uh situation  
as i say unless it happens to be  
now yesterday i had to dress up and   and uh be more formal because i had a a formal meeting at noon time  
but then i can go home later in the day and and be a little more casual  
and then if i have a a meeting of people that i know i can be very casual in the evening  
yeah  
that's around here in a lot of places that's the way it is  
i mean there there are expected uh dress codes  

and the people need to follow that  
i think uh years ago i used to be far more uh committed to the idea of of a dress code  
but i've relaxed a lot more as i've gotten older and become more comfortable with myself  
it's taken a long time to break away   from from that  
but now that i've broken away from it i'm i'm glad i have  
you mean you don't need to wear little old house dresses any more  
that's a good idea  
that's a good idea  
no  
there you know  
yeah  
what kind what kind of shoes do they wear down there  
uh_huh  
we we can wear pretty much that although um tennis shoes are kind of out   in in almost every every situation   unless you want to look like a [gook]  
a lot different  
you too  
and thank you for calling  
uh_huh  
bye  
okay  
so we're going to talk about uh what kind of clothes we wear while we work  
do you work for t i  
oh you do  
well you're like me then  
i stay home also  
yes  
i have two a seven year old and three and a half year old  
how about you  
oh  
oh my you are busy  
and they're all girls  
i have two girls  
so all girls around here  
yes  
uh really sweet  
that's how i am too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that's kind of how i am  
i said who ever i talk to is going to be board because when it's summer time i'm wearing shorts  
and when it's cold i'm wearing sweat pants and   most of unless i'm going to something special that my daughter's doing or something like that  
well that's that's good  
i used to wear jeans all the time until after i had kids  
and now nothing seems to be comfortable because i bulge in all the wrong places  
so  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
well  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
one of my daughters was born in june  
and i remember i wore [sundresses] and you know just those real cool dresses almost the entire time  
and i had one that was born in december  
so um it was a little bit because it was a real warm winter  
so even even into like november and december i was still wearing the short sleeve dresses  
course i'm always hot when i'm pregnant too  
so  
i i didn't really need warm clothes  
but i really have been spoiled by sweat pants and these new uh units outfits you know that are just knit  
oh they are so comfortable  
it's it's just um you know a light weight   kind of like a sweat suit but made out of that real light polyester stuff  
and   it's just great because you can put you know you can decorate them up or dress them up if you want  
or you can just wear them with you know tennis shoes if you want  
so they're really nice  
and i've enjoyed wearing those  
but i  
yeah  
well i don't either  
if we if we had professional jobs where we go into an office and have to wear a jacket or something   that would make a big difference  
i worked part time when my oldest was a baby  
and um i had to wear a dress every day  
and   and it was a little bit hard to uh wind down  
i would i would have to drive six thirty five home  
and i would be burning up like in the summer time  
by the time i got home i was like oh i've got to get out of these clothes  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and then when you drive home like especially if you're in a lot of traffic   which you are in dallas  
uh_huh  
because i always hated to run my air conditioner just sitting still all the time  
i was afraid i'd make the car [overheat]  
yeah  
so i would roll my windows down  
it was still a hundred degrees  
and i would just be [sweltering] hot by the time i picked my daughter up  
and   um i had a friend who used to take shorts to work  
and after work she'd go in the bathroom and change her clothes  
and i thought that's probably a good idea   because you really  
yeah  
because you can ruin your good clothes getting so hot in them if you   especially if it's something that has to be dry cleaned which i don't have any of  
no  
when you have children you don't  
um even when i go to church i have to have something i can just throw in the washer when i'm through  
that's right or if you get it dirty or whatever  
i know it  
me too  
i know  
that's how i am too  
right  
me neither  
i have  
okay  
i'm ready  
uh_huh  
no  
i work at home  
do you have children  
oh that's good  
i have four girls  
they're nine and five and three and a [newborn]  
yes  
girls are nice aren't they  
anyway as far as clothing goes um my wardrobe changes all the time depending on my size  
we go from regular kind of spring clothes   regular kind of fall clothes   pregnant clothes   clothes that are in between where you're not down to regular size yet   or you're on your way up from regular size  
and they're all in boxes or bags  
and they all rotate all the time   kind of the same stuff all the time though  
i   don't uh get a whole lot new right now  
yeah  
yeah  
i i like jeans a lot  
oh and it's it's frustrating  
i just i find i have to get the right kinds though or it's not comfortable  
they  
it it works best if they have pleats in the front  
and uh they have to  
my waist is kind of small compared to the hips  
so it has to be not the straight up and down [levis] kind  
but um but i  
when i was i was pregnant through the summer this time   and i wore dresses all the time   because it was so much cooler   and so much more comfortable   not to have something [binding] on your waist  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i haven't tried those  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't know if they expected us to talk about [blazers] and such here  
but i sure never wear them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm watching [janice]  
uh_huh  
oh  
i i remember that from when i was  
i worked way before i was married even  
but offices they keep them so cold   in the summer that you can't wear regular summer clothes   and be comfortable  
you've got to have something to   add to it or something  
i don't know if you can  
you burn up  
yeah  
yeah  
it's hard on the car  
oh  
yeah  
oh that's funny  
yeah  
at least something cooler  
that's true  
yeah  
i don't have to worry a whole lot about that  
that's right  
something that it doesn't matter if it gets spit up on too  
i've always been a creature of comfort too  
if it's not comfortable forget it  
wool was never comfortable to me  
uh the only work i do outside the home is i am an avon representative  
and i sell family products  
and uh  
so i i don't really i don't really dress up a whole lot  
do you work outside  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you'd have to dress differently when you're working every day i think  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's kind of nice to relax a little bit  
yeah  
well my my dress up  
i live out in the country also  
so   what i wear depends on the weather  
uh so i really i know a lot of the avon representatives are portrayed as being very dressed up  
but i mostly dress i try to dress nice but for convenience because when the weather's bad when i go into the home i take off my shoes   which i try to wear something easy to take off you know   and put on  
and i don't too often take off my coat even  
so uh i really don't have to dress up like you would like if you're in an office or something   uh well not actually because   we really only have maybe three four months of i'd say warm weather  
yeah  
and the rest is uh gets into the cooler weather  
uh_huh  
course they keep saying the weather's going to change and we're going to have more florida type weather up here  
so i   don't know  
but for now   but for now we have a lot of ice and snow in the wintertime and uh cold weather   and that type of thing  
now my daughter works all the time  
so she dresses  
i think you know you have to spend more money on your clothing and that   because you do have to have the appearance a good appearance to do a good job   where you work  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
did you find you wore uh slacks when you were working full time  
or did you   did they wear more dresses and skirts  
no slacks  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
not even a dressy slack a dressy suit slack suit even   if it's all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know my daughter mostly  
i don't think she ever wears slacks   to work  
but i didn't know if the trend changes you know if uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
look more like a woman huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh well then you you you know why they make them then   that way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but yet you need to keep up an appearance for your husband too though   at home   because that's i i believe  
oh you don't think you will huh  
well you'll be excused because considering everything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i i look at homemaking as a job also   uh being a homemaker  
and i i think sometimes we lose sight of that   uh by the fact that we don't sometimes watch our dress  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
do you  
well i i work uh  
i'm a c p a  
and i do contract work  
and so and i work with another c p a who just started his own practice  
and i work with him a couple days a week  
and so when i go to his office or to other [clients'] offices then i'll dress up  
but otherwise it's great being at home   in jeans or shorts or whatever  
so that that makes it pretty nice  
it's   kind of weird because before i used to work you know full time  
and and uh it seemed like i was wearing a suit every day just about  
right  
right  
and so it's uh  
some of my suits i haven't put on for quite a   while  
so it's   it's it's very nice  
gosh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i imagine that where you live uh you're in warm clothing quite a bit of the year  
not really  
oh is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you all are waiting for that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
well down here it's sunny most of the time   and uh usually warm  
i mean we had a few cool days uh this month  
but not anything i'm sure compared to what you've had so far  
so i mean people are still wearing shorts  
and   and uh usually around halloween it starts getting cooler  
so   you start   you know breaking out a coat   at that time  
but that that lasts you know for a few months  
no  
no  
never wore slacks  
it was i think it was one of those things where it's not like someone came out and said you can't wear them  
it was one of those understood things   that you just you know either wore you know a dress or  
not  
no  
not not with what i did uh  
most people didn't  
sometimes like the secretaries might  
but even then you didn't see them wearing slacks too much  
and i really you know  
there's some nice [pantsuits] out  
and   and i wouldn't have minded you know wearing those   especially when it gets pretty cold  
but uh  
uh_huh  
you know i think it's one of those things where it's not viewed upon as being professional  
i guess they   expect women to be in skirts   or dresses  
yeah  
that's right  
and it's the men that make the rules  
but no  
we usually you know  
skirt and skirt and blouse or suit or dress   is what you see down here  
so it's nice with me working at home because i can wear pants  
no no one can see me   unless i'm you know  
yeah  
yeah  
but i'm not going to put a skirt on just for him  
yeah  
i think that the main issue at home   is being comfortable   in your clothing  
right  
yeah  
the way  
i'll go ahead and start  
the way i work uh the way i dress   for work is uh this year nineteen ninety one has been really suit and tie  
or i shouldn't say suit but coat and tie every day  
a a year ago i changed jobs from being a researcher   to doing marketing for the research group  
which means kind of a i guess it's a different set of standards i guess  
so uh i i dress almost the same every day  
i mean pretty much it's a white shirt and   slacks and shoes and   a coat  
but it was very different before  
how do you dress  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i understand  
right  
i understand  
that's funny  
so does it change  
your dress  
no  
so or i guess do you have things like presentations to do or anything like that  
so back in my old job up until through nineteen eighty   i would usually wear blue jeans and pullover shirts and the like  
but probably once a month or so there was some reason that i would have to put on a suit   for a customer presentation or something  
oh i see  
i understand  
oh well that's interesting  
let's see uh what else about this uh  
it it seems like t i is pretty cut and dried with two like two or three levels  
that there's the upper management that always wears gray suits   and the people that don't uh  
i would if you if i want to say don't have power or don't have authority or whatever   like i used to be in that research  
and i guess you are  
that we dress in the jeans  
and then there's kind of the the branch manager level   or marketing people that kind of do that middle thing  
but there's not much  
it's nice that there's not a requirement   for it  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
i guess you see those once in a while  
sure  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
i guess they're the isn't there a dress code something about spaghetti straps  
i'm not even sure what they are  
oh [backless]  
all right  
okay  
so this wasn't necessarily a big conversation  
but i think we   we did it  
okay  
and and your name was lisa  
great  
i am  
yes  
and i work in the north building  
uh well thank you  
all right  
good day  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm a drafter  
so i just wear blue jeans and tennis shoes  
and i have sweatshirt on today  
and that's pretty much the norm for me  
if i come in in a dress everybody's shocked  
they ask me you know what are you doing in a dress  
and it's usually i haven't done my laundry lately  
ran out of jeans  
no  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
every now and then i'll get dressed up and come in  
but that's for my husband's job and not mine  
i have to go to a business meeting once a month with him  
but  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
middle of the road  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sometimes i think there should be  
some of these women around here look like they came off of harry [hines]  
and you know the they have the no shorts deal  
and some of these mini skirts you know are worse than shorts ever thought about being  
but uh   you know that's i guess that's one of the things you got to put up with when you don't have a dress code  
supposedly and [backless] things  
but i've seen those too  
but  
uh yeah  
lisa  
are you the expressway sites  
oh okay  
thank you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
uh clothing at work  
um i work as a news reporter  
and   a lot of  
i work in a since i work in a small station  
this is my first job  
and so i dress very [variedly] if that's a word  
um sometimes i'm shooting and doing photography  
and so i'll be in jeans one day  
and   another day i'll be on camera  
and so i'll be in a suit  
and another day i'll come in  
and i won't know what i'm doing  
so i'll wear a pant suit   in case i have to shoot  
so it really varies  
i try to dress very comfortably  
i don't really like dressing up at all  
i don't i don't wear a lot of makeup or anything like that  
i just  
i don't know  
it just it takes too much time out of my day  
and i don't i don't know  
yeah  
i don't mind it at all um  
uh_huh  
okay  
white pants in a bakery  
wow  
okay  
what's the name of the bakery  
oh italian i guess  
new clothes and stuff  
yeah  
that's one thing i would like is just to sort of have i really don't like uniforms   but just to have something i don't have to get up and decide what to wear  
that just bugs me to death  
oh yeah  
sweats and  
yeah  
when i was in school i was a sweat monster  
all i had was sweats  
and when it was time to go out i didn't have anything to wear  
yeah  
yeah  
um let me see  
i hate shoes  
if i didn't have to have shoes i wouldn't have them  
i just oh my feet bother me  
and they're just tedious  
to go find shoes for me it's just  
i don't know  
i wear size nine  
and it i don't know if just the shoes i get i either don't like them or they don't fit right  
and i   just wish that i could just go without them  
oh really  
oh  
just the opposite  
but um let's see  
what else do i wear  
um if i were in a bigger market when i do get into a bigger market i'll probably go out and buy a bunch of suits and things and uh where i wouldn't have to shoot and do a lot of other things  
and i could   then i would be able to dress more business like and things like that  
but   we're all kind of just out of school at this station  
and so we're all you know still in sweats really  
so it's pretty fun though  
yeah  
i  
oh  
yeah  
i like this the uh suits with the  
they come like with a mini type skirt   you know and the jacket  
i like that  
but   but i'm pretty short  
i'm five four  
and so that really doesn't [flatter] me  
but i think it looks good on taller people  
are you  
yeah  
any time i go to the store  
i mean i i have like two pairs of pants because i can never find any that are short enough for me  
and it's just oh ridiculous  
pants too i could do without those  
pants shoes  
yeah  
those are nice  
those are nice  
yeah  
those are nice  
and tennis shoes  
my boyfriend's got me these l a gear  
they're kind of big and [hefty] tennis shoes  
and it it's just like a chore to pick up my feet   because i'm used to wearing the little white girl tennis shoes  
the little ones  
yeah  
and i'm used to those  
they're just sort of you know  
like your feet  
i mean you don't feel them  
you put these things on  
it's it's you know like exercise or something for your feet  
and i have to wear them because he gets upset if i don't  
so   so so how do people in wisconsin dress  
warm  
i grew up in new york  
and so i know what warm is  
like five pairs of socks and  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh  
oh  
oh me neither  
yeah  
yeah  
same here  
i don't mind not wearing any makeup  
um i work at a bakery   because i'm a still a a college student um  
but we we have to wear white pants and um any color t shirt as long as it's not like a bright color like a pastel  
yeah  
yeah  
the [bakers] wear all white  
and we wear [aprons] and have to pull our hair back  
and so  
yeah  
it's italian bakery  
and uh so i don't mind having having to wear a uniform because i don't have to buy you know   right as you know many clothes  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i do that every day for school  
yeah  
but i i like to wear comfortable things like cotton and baggy things and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i don't have very many dress clothes  
but   i don't mind  
i don't need them yet  
um  
oh really  
oh  
oh  
um  
oh wow i love shoes  
i always buy shoes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
i like the look the the like suit look professional like you know look  
but i i really don't have much of an opportunity to wear it  
um   i'm going to be a teacher  
so i'll probably just wear   casual   clothes maybe skirts and some  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that is cute  
yeah  
i'm five three  
and  
yeah  
oh really  
oh  
i like the like stretch pants the cotton ones  
they're really comfortable  
with a baggy sweatshirt  
oh yeah  
oh  
oh yeah  
i have a pair of those  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
warm this time   this time of the year pretty warm  
sweaters and  
yeah  
yeah  
sleeping in sweats or long underwear  
my parents keep the house cold  
i guess you heard our our topic for today was clothing  
how you dress for work and season to season and everything  
how do you dress for work  
sure  
you bet  
look professional  
yeah  
i understand  
i am a  
i own my company  
i am in the i am uh manufactures rep sales organization  
and my office is a small office  
and i am very casual and wear slacks and sports shirt and things like that  
but then when i travel it is a little different situation  
uh suits and sports coat tie and the whole bit   cause you go to meetings and you are required to look your best and look professional of course  
yeah  
i think in today's society uh there is more credibility to be quite honest  
i will always remember  
i will tell this real quick story when i graduated from college  
my first job years ago uh thirty years ago twenty nine years ago in fact was selling agricultural fertilizer  
i worked for the uh smith douglas division of [borden] chemical  
and i sold uh you know manure  
and uh i would go out and call on farmers  
and i would always try to look my best wearing sport coats and things like that  
but i was calling on guys that wore bib [overalls]  
and so one day i got up and thought well i will just go casual and you know that i called on a guy wearing exactly that bib [overalls]  
and he sort of told me that he expected me to be professional  
and he sort of expected me to dress as a professional  
so uh it was sort of  
you bet   even back then  
so i sort uh been aware of my dress ever since then and   try to look my best  
but here again i dress casual quite a bit  
so  
it gives you confidence  
in my business if i call on the the j c penney company here in dallas or say someone say sears and [roebuck] in chicago then i wear coat and tie  
if i call on just uh a normal little dealer of mine i might be casual  
i call on [oshman's] sporting goods again it may be casual or it may be coat and tie  
so it depends  
uh probably no  
probably no   because uh today i believe you can get away with  
but then it depends on who you are calling on  
who you're  
you like your minister standing up in front of you with no tie you just uh he would be missing something  
although he shouldn't be evaluated on that  
so it's its' just different  
yes  
it is  
i am uh like a catholic  
and the people that go to my church you know  
catholics dress very casual   a lot of the times  
people in jeans and in whatever  
but yet the way i was raised  
i am a converted catholic  
the way i was raised  
i was raised a baptist  
and like as a youngster i use to always dress up all the time  
i guess that has changed also  
right  
sure  
but  
that is a very good point  
i am from west virginia  
so i understand what you are saying there  
and it's it's a very good point  
but you shouldn't what's the old saying you shouldn't judge a book by its cover  
and uh evaluation of an individual course all of it depends on the type of job responsibility you have  
i think you have to dress sort of accordingly  
but uh you certainly should not judge a book by its cover and uh or evaluate a person by that  
what about season to season  
does  
i guess your dress changes  

yes  
i certainly did  
uh_huh  
well uh uh about the same i dress for school  
i uh i am a graduate student  
so i don't have to worry too much about uh what i wear too much of the time   which is nice  
uh   uh uh although i do uh a lot of  
i am a speech pathology major  
and so i do a lot of [clinical] work  
and when i do clinic work then i have to uh uh look my best  
yeah  
unfortunately  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh uh do you find that uh on the average do people give uh more credibility or less credibility to a professional uh to professionally dressed individual  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
even the farmers  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
certainly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it depends  
sure  
uh so you don't uh  
if you had the choice would you wear a tie or not  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that uh  
if if you wanted to uh uh really get into a hot issue uh  
well at least in some in some beliefs uh how people dress when they go to church is uh is uh sometimes a pretty pretty hot topic  
uh unfortunately   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
i'm i am uh i go to the church of christ  
i have been raised in the church of christ  
and uh but uh i uh too many times you hear you hear a lot about what what you're uh supposed you're supposed to look your sunday best   uh uh and dress and proper attire  
and uh and sometimes that really [disappoints] me uh in uh when i see in other economic areas like in kentucky  
you know people just don't have that  
and they are afraid to go to church or afraid to go simply because   they don't have the clothes to wear  
uh_huh  
yeah  
certainly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
a little bit  
uh uh of course in the summer if i can get away with it i wear uh uh a pair of shorts  
and that's it  
run around [barefoot]   no shirt or anything  
but uh  
okay  
so how do you just figure  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well um i'm going to talk about when i was working as a teacher and when i was working at now  
um when i was a teacher um in utah i would generally wear um dresses and heels and things like that  
and even when it um rained and snowed i just [braved] it  
and i wore heels anyway  
and  
i know  
it might kill you to go up and   walk up to the door  
but you're going to look nice for the kids  
oh oh yeah  
well i need all the height i can get  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we too um  
if it was it looked really dangerous then i would wear boots  
but then i would change um into heels   as soon as i got to my desk  
so um  
oh  
oh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh well um  
yeah um  
the first two years i was in a room where they didn't heat it  
so i did  
yeah  
and then the third year we um got heating  
so it was nice  
right  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
oh nice  
well  
uh no  
we we moved to iowa  
and um i'm working at a day care right now  
and so the way i dress is really different because i'm working in the nursery room with kids from six months to like twenty months  
yeah  
i wear uh tennis shoes   and jeans and things that you know are sort of um  
not  
yes  
it doesn't matter if i have to wash it a hundred times or something  
yeah  
but i never wore jeans because um i thought that was too casual  
for  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
that's how i feel too  
um oh it there's some good things about it  
but i've seen a lot of things i'm not used to yet um  
um we lived in utah before  
and and i grew up in california  
well you know it depends upon our weather here you know  
today was a beautiful day  
it was like uh uh summer day  
it was seventy degrees  
so   so i dressed in uh uh a light weight skirt  
it's a uh ultra [suede] skirt and a blouse with a sweater [cardigan]   over it  
because i had some [appointments] at the office today some interviews  
and so i had to dress up anyway  
and then i wore heels you know  
but when it rains a lot which is has been doing here a lot lately uh very often you know wear uh pants and boots   you know  
so how do you dress  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i can see  
i i've been a teacher so has my daughter  
and i know that we very often wore heels despite the fact that   it was [tiring]  
that's right  
that's right  
and it always makes you feel like you're a bigger person than the kids right  
yeah  
i do too  
so to be taller than some of the boys in the bigger grades   uh older grades i had to wear heels  
uh_huh  
of course we wear uh an [unlined] boots you know  
it has a heel on it  
they're the kind of boots that i wear to work  
and we wear them you know  
they're a leather boot that you wear  
and as i said they have a regular heel on them high heel  
and they wear them we wear them a lot with shirts and things  
uh it's kind of a  
i can't say constant down here in texas that you wear these boots  
they're not a cowboy boot  
but they're just a real pretty boot  
but they keep your feet nice and [toasty] from the rain  
as i have a private high school that i run here and so when i'm interviewing a parent of course i feel like i need to wear heels   you know and look like i'm a business person   you know because the children will tease about where's your motorcycle   if you wear boots too often you know  
of course you probably wear coats a lot  
oh my goodness  
so then you had to  
yes  
then things improved right  
but of course here we wear a light weight jacket a lot you know you know  
and uh that's very seldom  
we it depends upon our winter  
we have a few days you might wear a coat winter coat you know  
but most of the time you can wear a sweater  
and we just don't wear coats much  
we often laugh about even when it turns chilly  
we're wearing something [lightweight] or no jacket because we're so used to running around like that  
it's really different  
let's put it that way  
are you not teaching anymore  
i see  
oh so you don't wear heels anymore i'll bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
more practical  
when you were teaching did you ever have uh uh a blue jean day or anything like that  
yeah well  
i know that some of the schools they have uh country western day or something like that one you know or tacky day  
and i always thought it was kind of out of got out of hand when the teachers looked real tacky too  
it's all right for the students  
they look tacky a lot  
but i didn't think teachers should you know  
yeah  
do you like uh uh iowa  
where did you live before  
oh well that's quite a change from california to utah  
okay
hi
well i work in uh corporate control
so we have to dress kind of nice
so i usually wear skirts and sweaters in the winter time slacks
i guess
and in the summer just dresses
we can't even well we're not even really supposed to wear jeans very often
so it really doesn't vary that much from season to season since the office is kind of you know always the same temperature
not [formally] but it's kind of understood that we're supposed to dress a little bit nice a lot of times we have to go over to uh like jerry [junkins'] office and bill [ellsworth's] office to deliver stuff
and we prepare a lot of [foils] for [marvin] and bill
so we have to dress a little bit nice
we're not
yes
now you know if if like in august when everybody is on vacation or something we can dress a little more casual or ice storms of course you know we all came in in our tennis shoes
but i guess that would have to do with the weather
but um unless it's an you know an unusual day
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
or uh_huh
what area
do you work in
um
okay
it with the
yeah
but then usually in the summer
it's cold in the offices because the air conditioner
is doing it's job
so well
oh yeah
it
uh_huh
just suits
there's not a whole lot of fabric [variance] there
uh they can't have a [rayon] suit
so
not really
i think i mean it's kind of [unwritten] but i think we're supposed to wear hose and and shoes
you know most of the people do anyway
and most of the women wear um actually most of the women wear suits more than anything else
but i'm not in that professional of a position
so i don't i'm not expected to do that
uh_huh
yes
pretty much
i'm a secretary yeah
yeah
but there's really no written rule
i guess they couldn't write that down that might be discrimination or something
i don't know
i mean i've never been told what to wear or what not to wear it's just you know judging from what everyone else wears is how i determine you know what i feel a comfortable in you don't want to stand out too much
well that pretty much covers the topic
well thanks for calling me
well i haven't uh i've benefit working in my own home for just um about the last three years
so i can just wear whatever i want
around the house
but before then i taught at the the university of houston
and um so i tried to wear things that were comfortable
but still tried to look you know
yeah
it wasn't quite business
but to give the students um and made you feel like you were the authority i felt like if i came in just in jeans or or [tattered] clothes that i didn't have as good control over the class
and if i tried to wear things that were a little bit more businesslike
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh that's nice
well do you um meet with clients and so you have to dress a certain way for the clients
or
huh_uh
well i have noticed with my own children for example that they will depending on what they're wearing it it makes a big difference on how they act
and so that could be the same can be said for the business office too
uh_huh
uh_huh
well and i noticed in my teaching experience that since a lot of the people were my own age or older even um that because i taught english as a second language
so i didn't have your average freshman
and um so i i had to do something to just [elevate] myself a little bit off their level you want to be friends with the students
but you don't quite want to be their equal
and so for me to dress in businesslike clothes my uh you know um i i preferred slacks because we had to park pretty far
yes
and you wouldn't want to have to walk uh you know in high heels it's hard to walk a long way
and the campus is pretty large
so i preferred slacks and um you know kind of dressy shirts and things
but
so that i would look a little bit different
and i would come in and i would have just the appearance of a little bit more authority than they did
and that helped with their discipline
and didn't make me have to much trouble
and with the students
huh_uh
well i noticed since we moved down here to texas
my husband is originally from texas
but uh i'm not
and since you don't have to have uh such a wide variety of seasonal clothes that you do up north
you have a totally different wardrobe with different [fabrics] you know heavier [wools] and no
and you don't um you know if you usually can wear pretty close to the same types of things just with a jacket or sweater
or or something rather than having the whole entire different wardrobe different shoes you know we always had like um higher shoes higher tops on them
rather than just the lower skim [skimmers] i think they call them that you would wear day to day but
huh_uh
that is really true
a lot of it is um the color certain colors seem to be
acceptable you know if you wear um [pastels] it needs to be warm weather
and otherwise you have to wear darker colors in the winter for some reason
and so i guess part of that is um just the physics of it that in what isn't dark colors attract the sun
and light colors repeal themselves
huh_uh
that's true
there's some rule that's like between labor day uh no
is it labor day or memorial day
huh_uh
right
and the one that's like in may
you can only wear
and supposedly we don't have an opportunity my husband and i we don't go to a lot of like where he as to wear a white dinner jacket or something
and so you can only wear a white dinner jacket between those
two holidays
that is pretty funny
it's funny that we have as a society go to so much trouble when we have so many other things we could be spending our time thinking about
huh_uh
huh_uh
i noticed uh when we moved to plano that um the mall here collin creek
i don't know where you are
but um
oh you do
that there there is a pretty
um i wouldn't say [snobish] it kind of borders on that if i depending on what i'm wearing i get better service at the mall
i felt since
uh since where you know where i've lived in houston that
you have to in order to get the attention you might need help
you need to be
you can't just come in off the street
is what i'm trying to say
oh is it
huh_uh
yes
i think i think your right
i've noticed that too
it's very different
but i've i think it's kind of sad when you have to make have to dress up when you go somewhere
i mean just to the yeah
and you have to be sure that your everything [coordinates] and and everything everything is freshly pressed and everything
no
you can't
well i appreciate the conversation we have had about clothing i know i've
it's interesting to hear a man's point of view it's usually my husband he's got a pretty good deal
i go out and buy all his clothes
well thank you
you have a good day
this is like one of the worst topics
i've had because i'm a terrible dresser
i'm really not that bad of a dresser but um where i work um it's very casual dressing so i can wear jeans and um pretty much a sweater or even a t shirt to work
yeah
well we i work in a manufacturing plant
so we i don't have to deal with customers or anything
but
no
actually i'm at work right now i work at night
and i'm using this phone as one of my you have to have two phones
i'm using one of these
yeah
well i sit here
i'm taking a course
and i study when i when i read my course while i'm trying to get through
so i just make a couple a night though
oh you see that's
i almost wish i had a job like that
so it would force me to dress nice
yeah
because i can [slough] off and then when it comes things out or i go out to dinner or something
or or not not so much going out to dinner
i have like three or four dresses that i can wear something like business interview
i went for another job in a different company
and it's like i go right over to my sister's house
what do you got to wear
yeah
and it's it's really convenient we're twins too
and so it works out
yeah
she just had to change her whole wardrobe because she's going up like a management ladder and even though she still has to work
i mean do some lot of physical work and adjust her machines
um she still has to dress for success as they say
so she went out and she changed her whole her whole wardrobe yeah
that's true
you know
i know because you know even like i [ironed] a shirt to come to work tonight
you know just a nice blouse and if i had to wear it with a suit or something
i would have had done a a ten times better job
yeah
and it's it's got to be more expensive
yeah
but that's what's so hard when you you have to deal with the public or deal with the customers
like that that business suit
boots
do you have to do you find that you you can are you happy with wearing dress slacks instead of dresses
because i know a lot of people dress it's
dresses dresses they hardly don't wear dress pants or anything
yeah
all the girls that i know i know a couple girls that work in insurance offices and that's all they wear are dresses they hardly ever wear pants
then on the weekends you know they wear their jeans
and their sweats but they uh the pants just aren't dressy enough
but in the wintertime
i think i would
yeah
yeah
yeah
even even here the secretaries they usually dress nice
but it's not strange to seem them in jeans and a sweater
so
and you know sometimes it is on fridays
but in the summertime
if their going to like i know a couple of the girls and this one lady goes camping a lot
and like every friday she's
you know she still does her same function and everything
but uh normally she's dressed to the t she's just perfect
yeah
well we're fortunate here cause the [building's] um very um climate controlled but we work in an electronics field
and we have to wear polyester smocks so it's usually um a tank top in the summer
and then silk and polyester are the only things that are close enough to being dressy and [polyester's] terrible on me
and i wear my silk under this polyester uh [smock] and you just get so hot
even though it's a nice temperature in here
so you really in the summer time have to we have to dress extra light because we have to wear these smocks yeah
and in the winter time pretty much just uh um even a [turtleneck's] all right because you have to wear these smocks a [turtleneck] and a sweater
and the [smock] would be too much
it gets really hot
so it's kind of weird when it's really cold we we come in pretty much we take our coat off and then we take our outside sweater off
trucking through the parking lot
yeah
but they still they have to keep the pants really just
but
yeah
and their shirts have to be pressed
so they still have the same thing here
if they could dress casually it would take them less time too
but i know it's great
i mean just putting on a pair of [panty] hose can take you an extra five minutes
yeah
right
i know um even my dress shoes
i don't wear them a lot
i notice the wear on the bottom of them
and there's no way i could wear them all days
i would be one of the women in flats well i'm pretty short
but i have a very bad knee
i couldn't
couldn't walk in heels all day when i go dancing i stay on the ball of my foot hope that i don't slip on my heel
because if my if i if i came down on my heel too much my knee doesn't catch and it's bad
well it's
no
we don't at all
um we used to be a lot [busier] so um it used to be important what you wore if you're comfortable because you knew you were going to spend a lot of time working and now it's very slow
and i pretty much
i've taken a couple of courses
and now i sit at my desk
and i and i read read my courses
i'm a technician
so i've taken a couple of technical courses
plus i'm going to take a couple of college courses
like i've taken um some business courses
just to it gets boring to stay here technical courses learning about in computers
yeah
yeah
this
okay
so do you think it's been five minutes
see i never time these
oh okay
so we can end our call
okay
who knows
did did you have you ever gotten duplicate people
no
i i'm almost afraid to get duplicate people
i don't know why
okay
yeah
okay
bye
uh are you a t i
okay
well we might have a difference uh to talk about on clothing uh
what
i am how come
we got the same
subject
i was amazed that they had the same subject on clothing too
i never have had that before
i noticed it on the weekends occasionally when i call
and how could they possibly get the same person that's ridiculous
no
no
they sure haven't what other aspects i'm i i'm
this is funny you know
uh clothing let's see uh i was curious you know if they just want to talk about the words of uh related to clothing that polyester was coming back
have you heard that uh i saw it on the t v that the
models were they had a new kind of polyester uh whether that they just like to switch materials uh periodically i don't know
we might
i haven't we didn't talk about materials i i prefer you know the cotton with very little
in fact when i look for
uh i i try to go for the [cottons] and i don't know that polyester will although men's shirts are half and half or sixty forty or whatever
yeah
i uh i'm originally from the east and i we used to wear sweaters and things
and sweaters are this isn't necessarily sweater country uh you know i i guess they're not as popular as they were
i don't know about how women if you do you have problems with air conditioning
or were you you were uh
is that a factor
that's very bad
yeah
yeah
at t i
i am too in and out and well of course we don't wear ties and jackets certainly not in this kind of weather
the the jackets they don't disappear but you know they're they're on a hook usually
the vice president's or the [manager's] and again i used to wear them
but i don't i don't bother with it
right now
yeah
that is a problem uh where did i see an article about where they're about that subject where they're trying to have oh i know it was [lunchrooms] where they're trying to encourage people to stay at work
and so that's why they even downtown this might be applicable where they're trying to have restaurants within walking distance
but at the same time
in other words you go down in a subway or whatever
and go to lunch
and they say that's so much more healthy for you than going out in the street in the open traffic and going to lunch
you'd be better off i'm maybe you do have some tunnels down there
and they they say that's so much more healthy for you to you know when you have to go out or go to lunch or whatever
it's to to walk or however and get to a place that is uh you don't have to go in and out of the of the temperature whether that affects how you dress
i can imagine uh
right
yeah
i uh
well i'm for colorful things
and i sure
i i do enjoy the uh the newer products along those lines
what do you think about women and wearing slacks and all that we haven't talked about that
okay
yeah
do you have children i might comment on teenagers how they dress
oh you have a lot to experience i have two
right
well have the opposite then i have uh well one of they're almost now teenagers at one twenty almost twenty and one almost sixteen
and i learned early on being surrounded by women here that the
i i love to take them shopping
but i don't pick anything out you know
i i just kind of influence
but uh the the teen the junior high teenagers really i don't know if you can describe how they dress you know you you
i i know what angle that we can talk about here we they want us to talk about clothes around work
but uh the way kids in school should dress and i'll give you my i don't think that the school should just kind of let the kids dress what is the current style not that it's totally ridiculous
of course
but public schools
oh i didn't hear that yet
right
well well whoever said that in my opinion doesn't have any teenagers who didn't grow
they won't do that they'll never pass it that will be like
right
uh_huh
i can uh of course i went to school you know a hundred years ago in college
and uh we did wear ties and jackets and this was they have since changed it was an engineering school a city it was in an downtown area like i don't know
well you can't compare anything around here to the school in like no u t a
here is in arlington
but i guess like that
and they just historically since it was in the city they wanted us to wear jackets and ties
and i did
my whole college career which is i guess terribly unusual we wore jackets and ties for four years
and i
so subsequently i wanted to get a masters degree in in after i got out of the service
and uh they changed drafts so there was a the styles have certainly changed to where i guess my campus now looks like typical uh college campus
i guess
huh
the older i get the more open to other people's ideas uh you cannot be you have to let them come out with uh whatever they not whatever
but some of their ideas too
and so you kind of back off and see what people
and i know their clothing is changing
you know all the time
and i'm i'm certainly open to how you should dress uh now of course the subject is work uh or clothes really i guess
uh and the again the one thing i am at at work is is certainly a professional look but i'm not saying that that will not the professional look will look differently from year to year perhaps
no
i really don't
it's uh uh go through a lot of shirts and think
no
i don't really
uh_huh
right
well you're sure
right there
because not even when i wore a jacket and a lot of the guys when i was up at spring creek in uh plano uh we think he just brought the same jacket even that wasn't a that's not a black mark against the man
and you're right that uh women are expected to look more
everything matches i guess
right
right
your work without saying much about it
do they ever bring the subject up of asking your opinion on on whether you want things to change on how you dress or are the ties
oh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh t i has several locations different sites have a little bit different dress like i said at spring creek
it was definitely more formal i think because it was newer and uh type and many many more people wore there was very there was very few production areas
uh a little bit during the school year we're uh definitely expected to wear [hosiery] and you know things like that
although we can wear slacks
uh during during the school year
and of course that's a good idea because i do sit on very low chairs to read stories
to kindergartners
and you know so it's pretty important to uh i also like very much the new split skirts
you know because then you
oh that's
oh that's true
the old [culottes] that's right
but those are just real comfortable and uh you know allow you the privacy and all
the only
uh no
i think it needs to be longer probably
if it's split it it varies though between the from one principal to another
there are some like uh some principals insist that you not wear uh [anklet] type shorts
i mean socks uh that you have to wear you know hose
but i know of other schools where they wear uh you know [anklets] and
uh_huh
uh_huh
how embarrassing i know i hate that you really really have to check on the check on the length
well we wear the knee high ones
a lot too
so
do you wear uh suits very much
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i am too
and i
uh i've been here seventeen years
but i'm from but i'm from illinois
that's right
that's right
that's right
right
that really is nice
i uh i'm kind of a pack rat especially when it comes to clothes
and i i mean i still have some sweaters that i had you know from before i moved down here
things that were were wool or just you know really nice things and and really very seldom get to wear them
and should certainly get rid of probably all of them
but like i said i'm kind of a
yeah
that's that's really true because who would want it down here
but anyway
they they still sit around in drawers and boxes and i i get them out at the beginning of the winter
out of a box and put them in my drawer
and then at the end of the winter i take it out of the drawer and put it back in the box and sometimes i never wore it now that is silly isn't it
yeah
are you from here then
uh_huh
well the thing is that you know it does get cold
but it's just such a short season
you know
and you just can't wear that much
oh how nice
rabbit rabbit rabbit
huh
where have you found them
uh_huh
but they carry them at dillard's
huh
i'll have to look at those that sounds interesting
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you mentioned that you liked the long skirts and i i really do too
i just i don't know
i'm really comfortable in
uh_huh
uh_huh
i like that too
that's exactly right
oh well for work
well you work year round
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
yeah
that's true
well i have more summer stuff
i guess for that kind of casual because we do go on a uh
i go back to illinois and visit my folks for a week
and then we go out to the east coast to visit my husband's mom and family and we usually go to the beach while we're out there
so
uh in fact i was thinking this summer that since i'm doing summer school i haven't worn very many of those things
but i was thinking oh well i got to get them all together so to take them on our trip
oh how nice
i took i went through my closet this spring
and i i took some stuff out and put it in another closet in the guest bedroom because i'm so tired of looking over it
and it's all just a little bit too tight
but it isn't so much too tight
i mean i could easily well maybe not too easily
but i could lose that weight and then they would all fit fine
and you know
and there are things that i really don't want to get rid of you know i really want to keep them because they're nice
and so i thought well i'll put them in there
and then maybe i'll feel so bad that i can't wear them now
and i'll do something about it
but so far
oh that's funny
yeah
that's right
hey when you have kids you definitely have to have
you think they're [hinting] yeah
that's true
ooh
yeah
you'll be glad believe me
uh_huh
oh
it's just unreal the time though that it really gets the worst is uh is when the kids get old enough that they really care what they're wearing my kids are twelve and fifteen and uh you know they're both boys
so they're probably not as picky as if they were
girls
but on the other hand
they can be pretty picky and you know i mean i could get away with you know with it
not costing nearly as much
you know when they were littler because they didn't care
anything was fine
but you know now it has to be a certain kind of
certain kind of jeans and the the shoes are just about the worst
oh
jeez
i'm my son just came out the other day
and he's his what is it
i think they're [reebok] whatever my other son has nike [airs] at the moment
but these [reeboks] and i was thinking he bought them in march
it was early march he bought them
and they are demolished
i mean they are absolutely demolished there are pieces hanging off of them
the inside of the sole on the bottom has fallen out
i mean that's how worn out
they are
and they i bought them on a wonderful sale at mervyn's they must have been thirty five or so percent off
they cost sixty dollars on that much of a sale
and my husband and i were just talking you know it's i mean we're talking minimum of three of those a year
that's a hundred and eighty dollars a year
for his tennis shoes
you know
and my husband
oh it's just awful
and my husband bought i mean this year he bought a pair of of really good you know work leather nice men's dress shoes
and they were about a hundred and fifty dollars or you know something like that
and you know he said i felt terrible spending that amount of money on this pair of shoes he said
but i'll still be wearing them in ten years
and and he's
i mean we're talking a just a piece of rag so anyway before we go visit grandma
okay
let's see um when i was working i would wear um comfortable casual type clothes nothing real dressy
but um mostly um i do like to a shirts that are kind of longer
and um not real high high shoes i would say more
more more flat kind of shoes and something that would be comfortable to wear throughout the day nothing that would be too dressy
uh_huh
which is nice
that's that's
uh_huh
i felt the same way
well i work in a private high school and i always felt like i had to dress
i dress casually
but yet i dress a little bit
i dress totally dressy compared to what the kids came in to
what the kids looked like you know
i had to
right
so i had this and real conservative my taste runs real conservative i like white blouses with little peter pan [collars] and sweaters and [cardigans] and turtlenecks and just kind of um just very conservative kind of traditional clothes and nothing nothing at all [faddish]
i don't i get suits with dresses that i have that i had several years that i can pull out of my closet
and they will still be in style just as they were when i first bought them
you know that kind of stuff
yeah
yeah
and just just um
i do too
i do too
a lot of
uh_huh
well i have uh dark hair
so i do like to wear the real bright
i like bright royal blues and bright reds on on me
and that's kind of nice especially for the holidays it's fun to dress with all the bright colors
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
too much for you
uh_huh
huh okay
uh_huh
okay
yes
now browns
i stay away from browns
because i have dark eyes and dark hair so for me i
a lot of those
pretty shirt
uh_huh
that that i have a a little three year old that has very blonde hair
and i dress her with different colors that i never get to wear like the bright the bright um she looks really pretty in yellow just like a real bright lemon yellow
and um certain colors like that
and um i'll put on her
and they look real cute
um that's it
well well that's the that's the problem i think it's you know the way
you would like to dress and the way you could afford to dress is too different
yes
that's right
i see
i'm not even just working part time in this uh private school last year
um it was it was an expense just to get started to get the clothes
after being home with the kids and like i said it was real important because i was working around teenagers and i like you said had to set an example
and i
well wouldn't have felt comfortable wearing jeans although some of the teachers did once in a while that i don't i very rarely even just wear jeans at home you know i'm not comfortable
in them
yes
yes
that that is a big consideration if i have a a solid navy blue blazer i might you know go ahead and pick up a [plaid] shirt or something
and then maybe a solid or whatever to mix and match that
i sit there and really kind of i really have to take a long time to think about what to to get because like i said you have to
right
to make it right
and also adding some [accessaries] to different different things
i'm not a real um i don't like to wear really big earrings i kind of have a few gold earrings that are my favorites
and just little [pearls] kind of boring and conservative
no
they once in a while
i'd i'd try one on
and it would seem right
and then before i walked out the door
i'd have it off because it just didn't feel right
um i did until my company went bankrupt
yeah
now right now i haven't been able to locate a job down here in patterson it's kind of a small city
so i've been going to modesto which is larger
but it's not like being in the bay area where i came from
you know
but anyhow when i did work in the winter time i wore uh my wool skirts and sweaters and boots
because the bay area gets kind of chilly in the winter time
and um then in the summer time i just wore you know the polyester blouses and usually pants
and just uh heels you know
so uh where do you work at
oh okay
right
do you
i don't suppose you can wear pants
oh
because i never see anybody in the banks out here
it seems like i never see them with pants on
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
no
i haven't
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
isn't that uh_huh
uh_huh
um
yeah
that would be interesting to do um i worked for a trucking company
so we didn't really even have to dress up at all
if we didn't want to
we could wear pants all the time you know
but uh i just in the winter time i just like to wear boots
and you know the wool skirts and the sweaters and everything
but uh i've never gone to and had a you know
anything like that done to tell me exactly what color i would look best in
uh i know i don't look good in yellow
but i like pink and blue you know and red
but uh i just look in the mirror
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh very interesting
so do you have your do you like do you in dallas
do you wear wool in the winter time
or
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
and naturally it gets real hot in the summertime i suppose
yeah
yeah
yeah
it gets hot here in patterson in the summer time more so than it did in the bay area
you know
um
like here uh like um a hundred and twenty six miles from [fresno]
but in the valley north
right
right
uh_huh
oh i see
uh_huh
so you have been to california though
do you have
we're supposed to be talking about
hello
hello
hello
yeah
i am now
wonder what happened
oh really
i couldn't hear a thing
well
oh
gee
i was on a cordless when she called
but then i uh i never get it to work
so i had to go to my other phone
anyway we're supposed to be discussing clothing right
um
yeah
where do you work
oh you work for t i
oh okay
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know what you mean
all right uh
yeah
i uh well i work for [lomas] mortgage and uh our office is so cold
i usually try to wear i wear suits most of the time except on friday we have casual day
i mean we can wear jeans i'm not a jeans [wearer] but i wear pants
but uh a lot of people in the office dress fairly casual most of the time
uh they do carry me through
yes
uh most of them i can wear all year
i just you know i just buy them they are uh leslie [fay] makes a [haberdashery] and uh i can even wash them in my washing machine
yeah
and uh so they're not too heavy for summer or winter or just anytime
so i i usually buy maybe a lighter color
you know like for the summer then i won't wear the real light ones in the winter
but
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
right
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that makes it nice
oh you are
well congratulations
oh
yeah
oh yeah
that's nice
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well our company is
our company allows jeans on friday uh everybody wears you know most everybody wears jeans
but they are kind of particular you know what kind of jeans or what kind of shirts you wear with them and you know they want you to look nice and uh everybody is pretty good
i i'm a student
and i work at [nu] skin so
yes
uh we're allowed to wear we we just can't wear jeans
uh every monday through friday we just have to wear you know nice slacks
or
uh just something that looks nice
and then on fridays and saturdays we can wear jeans
so
like jean day
uh it's pretty standard
i mean just more sweaters and stuff
of course in the winter
but
right
oh uh
uh_huh
oh really
and you don't find that gets too expensive
or
really
wow
uh_huh
that makes it really nice
uh_huh
does he have to wear suits and ties and um
uh i i rarely wear dresses
yeah
i mean it doesn't
it doesn't have to be that dressy guys have to wear ties at work
but shirts and ties at [nu] skin but other than that
oh no no no
but uh the guys seem to get to have to dress up a little more than the girls
for some reason
we can get away with more
uh no
we can't wear tennis shoes during the week either
yeah
we can't wear tennis shoes
but i it's pretty casual i i found
i mean it would be what i would wear to school anyways
most of the time
so
yeah
yeah
i well i work in the mornings from six thirty to ten thirty
so i get up pretty early
and then school comes after that
so i just don't bother to change for school unless i really want to be casual
but
how long have you been doing this t i
really
how did you find out about it
he's in is he in dallas
oh really
that's where i'm from
yeah
yeah
uh what is is he in a ward down there
or
sure
okay
uh i i like
yeah
i'm more into suits i think i'm more uh
yeah
more what's it called just uh
yeah
and oh what's the word i can't think of the word it's uh
did women uh have the more variety in this area right
are you saying that the that the uh teachers are wearing jeans
treated as if they're sloppy or treated as if they're uh peers
ooh
uh_huh
right
of course motivation is everything
and i suppose you're striving for [intimacy] on a intellectual level
it's really hard to figure out how you're going to do that
but of course we're trying to talk about dress and not teaching
well i am in a much more [conventional] position
i work as a uh white collar worker uh i'm a senior principal scientist at s r
i international
uh work with
speech technology
teaching teaching computers how to understand the speech in texas instruments oh yeah
i actually used
i used to be chief speech scientist at texas instruments
no
actually i try to stay behind the scenes which means i wear slacks and uh my own personal style
and it's it's variable and there are a lot of people who wear jeans
but i say probably most people uh wear dresses or slacks and uh wear the men wear uh uh probably most of them wear long sleeve shirts without ties
uh it's interesting
it's sort of silly and ironic not ironic but it's silly in in a sense that on [visitor] days which is are quite frequently people quite frequently dress up and they wear ties and coats and uh on [nonvisitor] days people dress down and they wear just slacks and dress shirts
right
and it it's not one of my dressing is not one of my main [obsessions] or [preoccupations] well i i buy a new shirt once a year whether i need it or not
well i don't pay much attention to it
now this this question did it relate to work or did it relate to to uh whatever
huh
i guess i'm a typical [oblivious] male in that respect
hello
hello did i reach the dallas area
yeah
my name is fernando
hey
how's it going
do you work for t i
north carolina state university
yeah
i'm getting a master's in computer science and computer engineering
um i took a voice i o course
well uh one of my teachers went to a to this conference up in bethesda maryland
and so he saw it there
and he just said you guys want to make some money and talk five minutes a day here you go
so
uh not originally
argentina
yeah
well i used to live up in new york and maryland
and i uh i like i like bigger cities
i like i like more populated areas because i used to live in [buenos] [aires] but they have ten million people
but uh this area is nice
it looks like it's got a lot of uh job opportunities
especially at research triangle park
and so it looks it looks well it's the third largest growing area in the country for businesses
yeah
yeah
no
north carolina state
yeah
no
the wolf pack yeah
no
we're we're not we're not the tar heels
why do you run
oh okay
my dad is too
yeah
yeah
it's nice
yeah
it's it's clothing
right
how you how you dress to go to work and how it changes from season to season
and from day to day
okay
okay
ready
i'm going to press the one
no
then then we say bye
and uh
well i i've got a [stopwatch] here
so i'll probably say you know it's like well we've been talking for five six minutes
so
okay
well uh we'll just open it
okay
i'll press the one ready
okay
okay
so
well you see since i don't work
i just go you know to class it all depends because i like to wear like sweat pants because it's more comfortable for me
but you know it's like when you're in school
you either wear [sweatpants] or jeans
yeah
yeah
yeah
okay
are they like t shirts
or are they
like do they have
oh okay
well well because how how hot
i mean like like in the coldest that it gets in winter down there
how much is it
yeah
yeah
that's
well it's basically you know it's like i got like a leather jacket or a you know
so i just put on a t shirt
and a leather jacket and i usually stay in class that way
and if not i would wear a sweatshirt underneath it
and then you know you'd but what happens is uh what i've seen here on campus it's very strange because a lot of black people
here they wear like dress pants and dress shirts to go everywhere
okay
and they wear either that or they wear dress pants and black turtlenecks or white turtlenecks and so the thing is you know is like i asked a guy you know why why do you wear that he goes well it costs me the same amount which is true because some dress pants you know cost me twenty five dollars which is the same as jeans
but um but basically all over here everywhere
everybody wears jeans and if not what the what the thing is that they're wearing now is sometimes you wear like shorts with [biker] pants underneath it which is yeah
where at
where at
oh okay
yeah
yeah
but the thing is when you started with t i
was it as big a company as it is now
yeah
yeah
i mean when
hello
you probably got wait calling
okay
well i guess i'm supposed to talk alone while
he's on the wait call about clothing right
so i don't know what to say i don't wear any clothing we're at [nudist] camp
we don't wear any clothes here
yeah
oh that's okay
yeah
was that in the seventies
no
no
but uh when it had gone up
yeah
yeah
i i i sort of remember that i'm only twenty two
but in the seventies
i heard you know t i was even making uh those little watches you know those those uh
l e d watches that you couldn't see in the sun
yeah
so
yeah
well they said that women like the the you know executive women or women that work whatever
they spend uh five hundred dollars on clothes a year
so but but for me
yeah
i mean women go all
i mean what i've seen like you know they like to wear something different every day
and for me it's like people know how i dress and we have you know like the gym here
they give you shirts right
which
which you use
and then you take back
they give you a clean one
and so sometimes you wear you know the shirts from from the gym every day of the week
the only thing is that you can tell them apart
because they have the year that they were bought in
so i mean you don't feel as bad because it's like they they give you different year sometimes you know
so you're wearing you know sometimes you're wearing eighty nine the other times
sometimes you're wearing ninety one the other times you're wearing you know eighty six
so it's okay you know
right
see when we take p e
you have to dress in the in p e clothes
but it is it's issued to any one that wants one that's in the university
well right now since i'm graduating i'm
well pat what do you wear to work
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
my my schedule
yeah
my [schedule's] pretty similar
i um i teach so on the days i teach
i teach a couple days a week
so
whenever i teach
i try and wear a tie
but uh but that's i wear normally just wear like [khaki] pants and a shirt and tie
i never wear a sport coat that's ridiculous
but then most of the time you know then i just have to uh i can wear jeans or or just casual clothes
i think they i think they [frown] on shorts and sneakers
but i think i could probably get away with jeans and sneakers uh
yeah
i could
well if i don't have to see students and uh i'm just in my lab
and no one sees me then i'm probably okay
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
well that makes sense
uh_huh
yeah
as long as you're clean and yeah
that makes a lot of sense
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that would that would uh_huh
yeah
and you don't have to worry about fashion and stuff too you know
buying nicer clothes and things
yeah
that makes a lot of sense
well you know my mother's a waitress and she has like three uniforms that she sort of wears in rotation
and she likes that you know
uh_huh
yeah
your your uh_huh
that's right
where the the uniform as as a waitress now your uniform really
it might be a little expensive
when you first buy it
but you know that's it doesn't it's made of polyester so it doesn't stain like cotton or wool would you know
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well that makes sense
yeah
that makes a lot of sense
uh_huh
that's
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh probably the people that probably the people that are prone towards getting dirty
yeah
with the type of job that you have you might be getting dirty either either manual label labor where you'll [perspire] heavily or uh or where you'll come in contact with uh oil and things
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's what
yeah
i find too um if you're a programmer do you get cold does your how's your air conditioning work
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh oh see
yeah
because my office is really heavily air conditioned
because i guess they they keep the air conditioning on all the time where they don't in a lot of the other offices because of the computers and um
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
see sometimes my air conditioning gets really cold
i think it's probably because my office is one of the only ones air conditioned in a a large area you know
probably probably that's why i get
because sometimes boy i'll get i'll freeze it's so cold in there
especially when it's ninety degrees outside
right
yeah
and blows on my legs man one time i left
i thought i was going to
i thought i was going to freeze the one day i wore shorts to the office
because i was just going to be in my lab
and i wanted to be comfortable because i thought the air conditioning would be all turned off you know
and jeez if it wasn't the air conditioner wasn't blowing it wasn't fifty five degrees
yeah
that's true
a lot of those nice looking legs
yeah
yeah
i was just laughing
it's funny that um we get clothing you know because uh i'm i'm in graduate school
i only work part time
and my wife uh we recently we decided we'd buy a sewing machine because that would be a good investment you know
and we could make clothes and save money so she's made me shorts
well of course you know she makes shorts and she says here i made you shorts and they're they're a nice material nice [checkered] [plaid] material here
but but she didn't put a fly in them
yeah
the pattern she bought didn't have a fly
so it's like well they're fine for her
but uh you know they're just everyday summer shorts you know
but there's no fly
yeah
they're not for a guy that really changes your the whole way you do your day
so i was laughing i thought that was funny you know because while i i was up at the office
and everybody says oh jeez
those new shorts i think they were laughing because they are sort of a wild color you know
but i was just crossing through to get my mail and stuff
uh_huh
yeah
that's probably true without being laughed out
yeah
i'm not i never i laugh at the wardrobe my father in law wears golf clothes
and it's the only time he puts on those funny clothes
and he doesn't wear those in the back yard or casually around
just when they go to play golf
they wear those funny clothes
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
but they have that dress code i you know i also know um e d s
uh e d s
i have some friends that interviewed with e d s and uh you know they interviewed while they were in college
so they didn't really have a suit with them
and the woman said to them
well your second interview would be here
but [du-] oh
and on that day i would say wear a suit because i guess they just had on a sport coat
and the one guy even had like um a gel in his hair you know his hair was sort of [slicked] back
you know which is popular with the kids and she says oh
and you know uh i wouldn't put the gel in my hair you know in other words you're to bore us a two or three piece suit with no gel in your hair you know and that way
she made it pretty clear during the you know the first interview how they were supposed to dress for the second interview you know
so i thought that was really funny too you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't think my hair has probably changed in ten years
uh_huh
he he's into what
uh-oh
really
uh_huh
yeah
i see them i see the kids with the the things cut in their hair all the time
well you know my dad was the same way
i thought it was really funny back in the nineteen seventies
my brother came home with cowboy boots on
was growing up in pittsburgh
and my dad called
my brother tex for about the next four weeks
you know and other than calling him tex he barely talked to him because he was so angry he was wearing cowboy boots
yeah
i thought it was just so funny
you know my dad we're not in texas
it was very funny
you know and all that over a pair of cowboy boots
and it was finally my mother convinced him she you know the cowboy boots give you about uh an inch lift you know they sort of have a heavier heel
what
well what kind of job
do you have
uh_huh
oh okay
is that because you're a student
or
uh
oh okay
okay
well i'm a student
that's why i was asking
and uh i uh i haven't been working this semester
so i don't really have uh much to say about that
but i do work in the hospitals once a week
uh i
yeah
i have i wear a uniform a nursing uniform so i don't really have much choice
yeah
they they tend to be pretty expensive
uh yeah they should uh unless you just buy a few
and keep wearing those
all the time
and
yeah
and people tend to use [bleach] on them
because you know you want them to stay white
and that kind of [deteriorates] it a little bit
but uh i'm hoping mine my one uniform will last me a long time until i have to start working more days
and there's not much of a selection at least in my price range like styles or things of
yeah
yeah
so uh
oh you did
oh okay
that sure does
yeah
were you a receptionist
oh okay
yeah
definitely
uh_huh
sounds good
right
also the shoes are expensive
that's
yeah
that's really tough before i went back to school
i work as a uh what do you call it can't even remember it's been
so long
uh office administrator or whatever it one of those titles
uh sort of
and it was a more of a casual uh atmosphere
but i still wore dresses and things like that
so i mean it was for a uh non profit organization
so
right
yeah
i agree
i i really i totally agree
i have a friend that has a [knack] for looking really stylish but always comfortable
yeah
she's really good at doing that
exactly
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well she she you don't have to wear high heels to look good
yeah
she never wore high she's an engineer and she
never
yeah
she never wore high heels just flats and low low heels
uh_huh
more the classic look
yeah
see that doesn't have to be uncomfortable
yeah
but you're right
i think those things tend to be more expensive
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
because uh also you tend to those things don't go out of style
so much
and uh i find
right
yeah
and since i'm a student
i never buy fad clothes because i know they'll be out of style the next
season
and then i have to go buy more
so i just don't buy any
hello  
hey how you doing  
fernando  
wait  
let me turn off my stereo here  
because i've been like waiting like for about ten minutes to get connected to somebody  
yeah  
yeah  
what time is it over  
are you are you in dallas  
are you  
because every time i got through i went to dallas texas  
yeah  
i'm in north carolina  
on the other coast  
what  
yeah  
yeah  
it's uh  
i'm watching saturday night live here  
wait  
what did how how did you get to know about the t i thing  
what are you working on  
really  
i'm doing my masters in in computer science and computer engineering  
at north carolina state university  
uh i don't because uh i come from a lot a bigger city than this one  
and   i i'm in raleigh  
and  
yeah  
that area  
and it's really small  
all all you have is like towns built around universities  
like chapel hill  
yeah  
where you at  
oh okay  
so so i mean it's like this this town probably has like two hundred and fifty thousand people  
and that's about it  
yeah  
oh okay  
so so where do you go  
do you go to berkeley  
oh okay  
because uh i was looking at at the   doctorate degree in computer science center at berkeley  
and they're asking like for a uh g p a of like three point seven or something   like that  
and like they're looking like for uh g r e like ninety nine percentile and this and that  
and it's like  
yeah  
i know  
that's why that's why i didn't apply  
i mean it was like   for me it was like practically impossible to get between like ninety and   ninety nine percentile on the on the [verbal] part  
yeah  
so are are you going to go for your doctorate  
yeah  
when do you get out  
oh okay  
but uh but what if they pay for it  
what if they pay for  
yeah  
because i know i know a couple of people here that work for uh the army uh  
i think i think they're military  
but i   mean the guy is still in  
and uh uh he works over in maryland  
and so he's doing his masters here  
they gave him like a scholarship like for a year  
and he's doing it in like in a year and a summer  
and so he's getting that  
and uh   they said like they got a lot of benefits and that  
that's why you want to join  
but uh this guy  
i mean you can earn a lot more money  
so you say  
i go why you still there if you can earn a lot more money once you've get your your your masters  
they go well they got a lot of benefits that would go with it  
so  
yeah  
but i mean i mean you  
the  
once you get your masters you can be earning between anywhere between like thirty seven forty five thousand a year  
and   and that's not what they're paying  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
but that's uh  
yeah  
it's like   it's like uh in i b m  
in i b m you can get certain points  
and uh everyone's a manager  
but nobody can get one more point to become you know like whatever you need to earn so much money  
yeah  
it's like  
no  
i i mean i b m is like  
there's a joke about i b m which says you know it's like uh  
all all the major companies get into a a boating race right  
and so i b m says well we have we have to have a team right  
and then they come in last  
and they have this whole team you know analyze why they came in last right because the person asked for it  
saying  
he goes uh the problem was that there were five people saying row row row and one person [rowing] right  
so he goes have you come up with a uh have you come up with a solution  
they go yeah  
change the [rower]  
you know it's like everyone's a   manager  
but you know it's like   only use like one person does the work  
so  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well that's the way it works  
i mean that's that's why they're having problems  
i mean everyone's a manager  
and  
yeah  
i mean it's like it's like the people that actually do the work there   are uh very few  
and then the other people just plan it you know  
it's like it's like have you have   have you ever seen the commercial like for federal express where the with uh the think tank   you know  
like all these people are just standing sitting around just going you know like what shall we do  
has anybody thought of anything  
no  
and then this guy from federal federal express comes along  
they go what's that this track which it's going around the world  
and they can tell you where your package is anywhere any time  
and so it's like the same thing with i b m you know  
so they have this think tank  
and they got to come up with ideas  
but see uh the the thing is that i b m is so [stabilized] that everybody will buy their stuff  
yeah  
and it fails  
and you're dead  
yeah  
well i b m doesn't fire anybody  
because   uh what they do is they they put you in a different job   which you actually are like sitting around not doing anything  
so you quit  
i mean that's their policy  
they never fire anybody unless you're caught doing something [illegally]  
yeah  
like if you're stealing something or doing anything like that  
but they won't let you off  
what they'll do is like  
suppose you know like you're a manager  
so they'll put   you into keeping up the paper you know  
it's like how much paper is going in  
and then you   say that's not my job  
so you quit  
right  
right  
right  
no  
but i mean it's like it's like they they have just like different policy  
i don't know  
my dad works for them  
but it's like i b m like never in their commercials they never put down any other company you know  
it's like   they won't say  
yeah  
because see what happens is they have a good backup policy  
and anybody can fix it  
and so that's what you're going to go for  
and and you know it's like for example like leading edge  
have you ever heard of leading edge  
what  
they they made like uh small personal computers  
i don't know  
i don't know  
but what they do is what they did i don't know is buy all the parts that i b m would throw away   and build an i b m p c with all the parts that i b m would throw away  
yeah  
for example you test a chip  
it can't last seven years  
but it can last five  
i b m says let's throw it away  
leading edge will say we'll buy it from you  
and so that's  
i mean they're still around i think  
so that's what they do  
they buy all all the things that i b m throws away  
and they and that's why they're so compatible   because i mean  
and by the time you have computer for five years you're going to throw it away anyway you know  
well i mean there's like well  
in a way you realize  
i mean one one of my teachers got this computer which you know  
it's like uh voice uh [synthesizing] stuff  
and he got that  
he said you know it's like uh  
i was testing it  
and it was wonderful  
and then when you tried to erase and correct you know all the errors in your voice it takes up all your memory  
and i want more you know  
and it's like jesus christ you know  
it's like why do you want more  
because it's like one second of recording  
i mean you put into wave  
and you want to correct the errors into wave  
it takes so much  
i mean it's like  
of course it does  
i mean by the times it [transforms] into wave by mark off model  
and you put it in there  
and you want to correct those  
and then you know you're trying to make the the wave smooth  
so you can approximately  
of course it's going to take a lot  
imagine imagine   what it is for us to make mark off models you know  
it's like jesus christ  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well like they say like nobody can get enough you know  
it's like once you have something  
and it's like  
i was watching this program on t v yesterday  
in nineteen seventy six   nasa came up with three d graphics  
right  
and they were showing this like three d three d graphics view of like  
what  
no  
no  
no  
this is like this is like   video game stuff  
okay  
but the only thing was that it was just lines  
okay  
like if you  
hello  
not bad  
not bad  
what's your name  
fernando  
my name is nick  
sure  
really  
[phew]  
man i'm  
no  
no  
i'm in detroit  
or not detroit i'm in uh california  
yeah  
i  
really  
oh  
well you're on the uh  
let's see  
yeah  
twenty one  
yeah  
shoot man it's what midnight almost  
yeah  
okay  
all right  
well i guess we're supposed to talk  
what about  
credit card  
oh one of my instructors uh said that they were doing something like this  
and  
a a masters in uh information systems  
yeah  
where at  
hey  
how do you like it out there  
yeah  
oh  
raleigh durham  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so it it's basically a bunch of small towns anyway  
kind of [quaint] little towns  
but they   don't have a whole lot there  
uh well i'm in monterey california right now  
yeah  
two hundred fifty  
okay  
it it's it's a lot bigger than monterey is  
but we're just uh just south of uh san jose and san francisco  
and it's only a couple of hours away or a hour away to a you know to a large city  
no  
no  
i go to the it's the naval [postgraduate] school out here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's what they look for  
whether or not they get it is hard to say  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty tough  
it's pretty tough  
i  
uh let's face it you know  
and you know i you know did the you know  
as far as  
i found it a lot of times with regards to education you know the school only takes you so far you know  
it's what you do   you know  
so uh i don't lose any sleep sleep over stuff like that  
probably not  
see i'm in the navy  
and uh you know most of the navy funds that i probably won't do it until i  
if i do do it it will be after i get out of the navy  
oh probably be another twelve years  
oh you know i like what i'm doing right now  
excuse me  
if they pay for a p h d  
[nah]  
they won't pay for it  
they've i think they have maybe two people a year go get get their p h d  
yeah  
they [civilians] or uh military  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well a lot of times it's you know a lot of times it's not the money that keeps that keeps people in  
they they like what they're doing  
they you know they feel good about what they're doing  
that type of thing  
it's more  
uh_huh  
oh easily  
i'm sure  
no  
well it depends on what rank you are of course  
i mean like i say if you're if you're you know if you're at an upper level in the rank category you know you're probably pulling down close to seventy grand a year  
yeah  
those are few and far between though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
since i imagine it's fairly competitive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
too many chiefs and not enough indians  
yeah  
i don't know  
that can be that that can really slow you down  
i didn't realize that  
uh_huh  
push paper around  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
they've got a they've got basically a uh you know a lock on a lot of the market  
and a lot of times you figure you know with the support that they provide you know  
people generally go with that because they figure that the you know you probably won't get fired for getting i b m material  
where's if you try something different they'll   they'll say yeah  
why didn't you buy why didn't you try something more [mainline]  
no  
uh_huh  
uh  
illegal or something like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so in other words that's the way they force   people out  
that's why they can say you know there's no layoff   policy  
but it they don't really say that you know  
you're you're always going to have great career   conditions  
hey that's kind of sad  
no  
well they're the standard right now  
or as far as that goes you know people think of computers they think of i b m a lot of times  
and the main  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know that's that's a that's a big thing  
yeah  
they are out of korea right  
leading edge  
don't they  
yeah  
small p c  
they're out of korea right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
okay  
yeah  
i've seen well i've seen them around anyway you know  
uh_huh  
most people do  
or they have to anyway  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
it's amazing  
yeah  
well when you get you know when you get right down to it the uh the more they can do for you the more uh like i say the more the more memory they're going to require  
yeah  
both both in terms in ram as well as uh you know standard   memory or disk disk base  
so  
oh yeah  
you find out more  
yeah  
uh_huh  
like the deal  
like a hologram  
with just graphics on on a  
okay  
what are you afraid of with them  
yes  
well that's very can be very very true  
well that's the idea  
they figure that   if they give you card   at no charge for a whole year that you will use it  
and  
absolutely  
well the other thing of course is the fact that they hope   you will not pay your bill at the end of the month   so that you would be paying interest  
i use mine a great deal um for groceries for everything that i can and   then just write one check at the end of the month   for the entire thing  
right  
that's all right  
sounds like you have a little one there  
oh you have  
great  
how old are they  
oh boy those are two very active ages  
uh_huh  
well uh do you uh do you ever use the a t m machines  
well i find it a great use from the standpoint that you don't have to continue to write checks   in order to get cash  
oh that helps  
right  
well the the other thing some people are not aware of is they will use their a their credit card like their visa or their mastercard for cash  
and when they do that they begin paying interest right from that very day on  
yeah right  
absolutely  
because they   they figure that that's correct  
the idea is to use their money  
and uh during that whole month and   then pay it at the end of the month  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think that's the only thing you can do is just say no and mean no and   not be tempted  
well  
oh absolutely  
preapproved  
that's their favorite word  
i think so you're right  
well it's interesting uh that uh   people have the generally the same view   of credit cards   no matter where you go  
that much stuff  
right  
well and some people use one credit card to pay for another credit card they own  
and i mean that does nothing but [exacerbate] the entire problem  
that's right  
that's right  
well it's been enjoyable talking with you  
right  
well take good care  
take care of your little ones  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
well um with credit cards is me i uh i try to get maybe just one or two  
i don't i don't like having credit cards for every store  
i i uh i just don't like them  
what am i afraid of  
um i don't know if i'm really afraid of spending too much  
i just uh don't think that i need them you know  
i  
uh they are tempting at times  
but i i just you know sometimes i just don't like everybody knowing everything about me you know  
so  
so and you know everybody just gives you a credit card just so you'll spend money  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
see they make money off of it whether you use it or not  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's what i do  
that's what i do  
just a second  
sorry  
i have two little ones  
yes  
yeah  
so  
um four and two and half  
yes  
so yeah  
um i'm i'm like you  
i i use my only use my credit card for um you know when i you know  
i just use it whenever i feel like i don't want to write a check  
and then but i don't charge anything that i can't payoff at the end of the month  
so  
no  
i never do  
my husband does at work just to get cash out  
but uh i take the checkbook  
so i you know i just if i need cash i just tell him  
and he gets it out  
and i don't even think i know my number  
uh_huh  
that's right  
see we he couldn't do without it but you know since he can just do it right there at work   for nothing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you're right  
and that's kind of silly  
yeah  
your [defeating] the purpose  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i get i get at least one or two a week   people you know sending me a credit card or calling me on the phone and i just say i don't want it  
because i  
yeah  
it's like   i'd like to know where they determine that i'm such a good credit risk that they can go and say you get this much credit line you know  
you've already been preapproved  
yes  
everybody in the country is preapproved i think  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then some people they get so wrapped up in them that they find you know one day they find wow i didn't realize i had this much   you know i'd spent this much money  
and then they can't meet the minimum monthly payments on it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it does because you're you know you you're you know you're just costing yourself more money because you if you can't make the monthly the minimum payment you're paying interest   again  
so  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
it's enjoyable talking with seeing that somebody feels the same way  
so well  
you you too  
good luck  
bye bye  
okay  
i was trying to get my children quiet for a minute  
well credit cards boy that's an easy topic  
isn't it  
oh yes  
yes  
i guess i've had some good experience and some bad experience with them  
uh_huh  
well i do fairly good until i go in the store and i see something i want   you know   not need want  
there's a big difference there  
but most of mine that i use is strictly gasoline  
uh_huh  
oh it sure is   especially when you work out of town and everything that way  
at least that's for me  
yeah  
but yeah  
i've i've talked to some who's really had some bad experience  
and kind of knock on wood i haven't yet not bad  
you know i just i'm just shocked at the end of the month   to see what damage i have did  
but   i try to keep it pretty reasonable  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and then they have bad drawbacks too   i mean high interest  
it's like paying twice  
yes  
so  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
uh we used to have you know like several  
but right now we're just more or less at american express   you know  
and that way we can go ahead and pay it off when it comes in  
yeah  
pay fifteen  
yeah  
yes  
i know  
yeah  
and when you pay fifteen dollars a month it sure takes a long time  
it sure does  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
and maybe we'll get to talk again  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
okay  
yes  
it is  
it's one we all hold dear and near i'm sure  
yeah  
most of mine's been pretty good although i'm i guess i'm like a lot of other people now  
i'm trying to to pay off my credit cards  
and and uh i've done pretty good at it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
there is a big difference  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i i do that  
i do that  
but the rest like i said the rest of them i've been trying to to pay off   and uh get back on a cash basis except for gas  
it's too easy to to run into the gas station  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well that's  
yeah  
yeah  
well i've been pretty lucky in that respect  
i don't charge like i say i've i been trying to to not charge except for emergencies  
and uh so but i haven't really had any bad problems with credit cards  
there's you know  
they have uh wonderful features  
they're there when you need them   you know like in emergencies or whatever  
yeah  
it's it's awfully easy  
that's true  
that's true  
i try to  
i did switch to one uh sponsored by the credit union though that seems to be a pretty low interest   yeah compared to some of the other ones  
and you don't have an annual fee there  
and that helps  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one way to do it because that that forces you to pay for it   instead of saying well i'll just   pay on it this month  
and  
yeah  
takes a long time  
that's right  
and now without the benefits of being able to deduct interest off off your income tax   that's you know  
of course it's been going down for a number of years  
but this is the last year you can take anything  
so  
so  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
so do you have any credit cards  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i have one card  
and i try not to use it  
but   right now it's maxed out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i have uh  
the thing that bothers me worse than the credit cards i think is uh you mentioned the gasoline credit card  
i don't have that  
but i've got you know one of the the the instant teller cards   that you can use for point of sale purchases  
and we use that usually to buy gasoline  
and it's just   it's really amazing how quickly that goes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they've they've talked about it  
course it [eliminates] any waiting period  
god help those people who have to float checks occasionally   because you won't be able to with that  
no  
oh it was well  
they consider it to be the same as cash   well cause it actually is  
yeah  
it's better than cash  
they don't even have to deposit it  
it just goes straight in there  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i'm so glad he told me that when that they they got to such a point with their credit cards they didn't want to cut them up because they were afraid sometime they might actually need them  
they paid them off  
and then they stuck them in a thing of water and froze them  
she said at least before she could use them she'd have to thaw them out  
i mean that's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
i i want to still have just one   just in case  
but i'd   sure want to get the get it paid down and   not use it for a while  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well our our limit is you know fairly low  
and uh so that's that's one thing that's good  
oh i've got another call  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  
yes  
i do  
i keep uh i have an american express and a visa card that i keep you know kind of for emergency purposes  
and i have you know i use a gasoline credit card which i you know pay off   every every month  
but i've i've gotten rid of all of the credit cards you know that i possibly could  
and my balances are practically zero on the ones that i have  
especially since you know it's no longer after this year  
or after tax year nineteen ninety there's no deductions for you know credit card interest that you pay  
so it's a you know gosh  
credit cards run what anywhere from up to eighteen nineteen percent i guess  
it's just a bad deal  
course there are emergencies you know that you you know probably need to have a card  
uh_huh  
that's that's probably enough  
absolutely  
it's it's very easy to you know to do that or you know to abuse it  
it really is  
it's so easy to pull out the plastic  
but we're trying our best not to not to add any you know credit card debt to our structure here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure you're right  
i don't i don't i don't participate in that  
but you know a lot of folks do  
yeah  
at least with the uh gasoline company credit cards you have you know up to thirty twenty five thirty days you know interest free for it  
but you know the instant thing may be may may be the way of the future to you know to replace checks and every other thing  
yeah  
it certainly does  
absolutely  
that's right  
do you get any sort of discount when you use a card like that  
i see  
i see  
i see  
it certainly is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
no returned checks or anything  
yeah  
no  
i i understand it's becoming you know the popular thing to do  
we're not participating in that particular program at the moment  
and i don't really perceive doing it unless we absolutely have to  
but uh i have in times past gotten into a bit of trouble with credit cards  
it's just you know too easy to do  
that's right  
well that's a novel idea  
yeah  
that would cause you think a little while wouldn't it  
that may not be a bad idea  
but i'm kind of getting a little more leery of credit cards you know as time goes by  
unless you just absolutely have to  
now there are times when you'd   at least think you do anyway  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
my wife and i really i guess are fortunate  
we're really not compulsive [shoppers] you know  
we we plan purchases you know pretty well you know watch for the best buys things like that  
but uh some people have a real problem with it  
uh_huh  
sure  
absolutely  
yeah  
oh i'm sorry  
was nice talking to you  
take care  
bye bye  
well how many credit cards do you have  
sounds like we have no conflict  
we had  
for a while i was carrying one card  
and my wife was carrying a different one  
and since the slips all look alike uh you [commingle] them  
and then you get the statement  
and you try to sort them out uh  
and it uh it caused more confusion about it  
i finally said gee this is kind of a waste of time  
and then when a t and t came along and offered a free one uh i accepted that  
and we've been using that one  
uh the interesting thing is is that uh the amount of money you can can run up on them  
i don't know  
do you know any people that run up big big bills  
well did um were you able to get one while you're in college  
just curious because i have a son that's a senior this year  
and he's heading off with any kind of luck  
but there has been  
i've had a couple of ads for for for to provide a card for a college student  
uh what do you think about the idea of providing one for somebody like that  
well that that that i guess from the from the card [issuer] uh that  
since since it's it's in the parent gets it for them that really the parent becomes the one that's responsible  
but it's  
yes  
it's whether the parent wants to take the risk  
yeah  
to to go run up a big bill  
and the thing is there some advantages if he got off   some place and stranded  
i i'm i'm leaning towards doing it   for for   a convenience  
yeah  
and the idea that you know if he got in trouble there's some some ways of getting out and that he doesn't have to carry cash  
the uh  
i i like the idea of credit cards that uh i don't i don't i don't carry cash around and and uh i don't even carry checks around  
i let my wife take the checkbook  
and she writes the checks  
and i record them  
so it's uh it's uh it's but it's interesting that uh the people that can that can uh the amounts of money you can run up on on credit cards  
and uh i i had recently had some dealings with a fellow that  
they had run up he was making oh considered a modest salary for an engineer  
and he had run up uh more than a years salary in in various debts to  
and he wound up declaring bankruptcy  
but there  
it it's hard to believe that you'd run up twenty thirty thousand dollars of uh  
well it was a combination of things   he had  
there were there were several credit cards  
and then there were several other businesses  
but uh i i guess what's interesting have you seen the the the the ads where they're offering to extend payments from uh things like uh like the credit union's offering  
yes  
yeah  
the interesting thing about that is is that uh that that they're encouraging you to incur more incur more debt  
and  
and they make more money if you extend your loan  
yes  
and they know that people own a car that new unless absolutely die of service  
they're not going to keep on if the car were older  
the interesting thing about it is is that from a uh uh an economy standpoint or in economics  
i i thinks it's i think it's poor poor uh economics to to carry all that consumer debt   at least from a tax standpoint  
so it's interesting that that the american public is encouraged to incur all that debt and then next year none of it will be deductible  
and this year it's ten percent or so  
it's uh it's interesting that that uh they encourage us to do things  
i think ten percent  
yes  
of your of your consumer credit  
oh if you had a thousand dollars that means there's another hundred dollar deduction i've given you  
yeah  
it's on uh yeah  
yeah  
on the the  
there's there's there's a place for consumer debt  
and then you take ten percent of it  
on the  
oh okay  
it's on schedule um   schedule a under uh  
well it's the same place it's the same place you put uh interest  
but but see that's what that's what makes texas [squirrelly] laws that you can't you can't take out a a second mortgage like some states where you can take out the mortgage and declare that  
and so uh it's fully deductible  
the laws are a little [squirrelly]  
but it basically comes down to  
it's not in your best interest to borrow money from a tax standpoint  
but uh anyway  
sounds like you're you're very very financially responsible  
it's uh   that's uh  
there're a lot of people who really run  
my boss drives quite a ways to work  
and he's got just enormous debts  
and he's  
but i mean what do you say it's like [shucks] boss i'm sure sorry you've got all that debt  
well he's had had two kids in college and and this kind of thing  
and that  
i think that the whole credit card issue i think they certainly encourage people to run up the debts  
and but i agree with you  
i don't i my debts  
well i did buy a new house last summer  
it's it's remarkable how many people as soon as they get out of college buy a new car  
and that uh apparently that's been going on for a really long time  
i didn't do it  
i i bought a second hand car when i was the middle of my senior year  
yep  
miscellaneous things like food and   other things  
these habits you get into eating  
and and uh it's it's it's amazing how it what you learn  
well anything else good to say about credit cards  
i might just  
you don't have to carry the cash  
and and uh and it's it's it's certainly accepted more places than the places you know  
it's hard to cash a check if you're out of state  
and  
yeah  
they don't allow they don't do  
yeah  
carry all that cash with you  
well you know they they   they've started towards a little bit of the debit card  
have you seen the debit cards where they actually debit your account when you  
yeah  
and i think that's where  
yeah  
i've seen a couple  
although the  
so many of the grocery stores don't do that because of the the time frame which they get paid in general  
that uh  
they  
i've seen checks deposited the very next day i mean cleared my account the next day  
my wife will write a check for groceries  
and you know almost  
well i guess it's the day after uh  
technically it's two days  
but they took that check and [scurried] it to the bank  
and the bank [scurried] it back to my account  
and you thought there'd be just a little bit of float  
but apparently that's why the uh the uh the uh grocery stores are reluctant to do that because their volume that is quite high  
and they have uh  
the [costability] of the cash flow is a big issue for them  
anyway  
well it's good talking to you  
maybe we'll get across we'll cross paths again  
good night  
um i've only i've got about four maybe  
i try to limit them because i well one i don't use them too much  
and i use my visa just for for about everything  
and i pay it all off  
so i try not to  
i just use it for free money for thirty days basically  
i'm i'm you know i'm in the age group you get out of college  
and i think a lot of these people have them maxed out  
um i don't think i ever tried  
um well  
yeah  
i i you know  
it's you know feasible  
i mean i know a lot of college kids who have them you know who had them but just depends  
yeah  
so basically if you want to take the risk  
it's your risk  
do you trust your your son  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'd say you know have one with you know   at least a thousand dollar credit limit or something  
uh_huh  
the the extended loan payment for your car  
yeah  
i saw that  
well it's it's it's business  
and they're making money off that  
yeah  
and and it's so it's business  
so and you notice that they're they're only going to do it to like cars that are one or two years old  
and so they've already shifted the risk  
if they assume that car then they just have to sell it themselves  
and they'll recover the loan  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
what now what's ten percent we can deduct  
i didn't know that  
i didn't think you could  
any thing on a loan or   i mean a mortgage i know you can  
oh i've never [itemized] yet  
so maybe that's   schedule a or  
yeah  
yeah  
i try i i really do i just try to stay out of debt  
and i and i use my visa for for as much as i can  
and i pay it all off  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
hell i took a five year note out on my car when i right when i got out of college  
and uh i'll never do that again  
i still got a couple of years on it to go  
and i'm  
well you you think you're starting out well until you start paying all those bills   uh apartment rent  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
um  
you know they're convenient you know  
that's probably one big thing about them  
and uh  
yeah  
well i was used to using my credit card like at skaggs [alpha] beta in dallas and stuff  
and now i'm out here in phoenix  
they they  
none of these grocery stores take any credit cards  
so now i have to carry cash when i go to the grocery store which is new to me you know  
i got to have sixty bucks on me or something  
so uh   that was interesting cause i always you know  
you   didn't have to worry about carrying that much unless i knew i  
yeah  
i've heard about them  
that's mostly locally  
the banks will line up with uh  
yeah  
all righty  
all righty  
take it easy  
all right  
uh_huh  
um i wish i had  
well i  
it was done for me after a while  
i had a uh i had a business going  
and this was back in the eighties  
i don't know if you remember the gold and silver prices and all that  
but uh i had a coin shop  
and everything was going great while gold and silver was up  
and it started falling  
so i started paying expenses and stuff on my credit cards  
and things got worse and worse  
and finally boom  
yep  
yeah  
it was  
i ended up going into you know  
it was one of those things uh  
oh it'll get better next week you know  
things will pick up  
and so there i was in old bankruptcy court  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i was buying from other dealers  
and uh you know they take payment any way they can get it  
yeah  
course on on stuff that i was on merchandise that i was buying on cards it was i was getting the money back  
because i was selling it  
i wasn't buying you know just to hold onto it  
uh but it was things like you know rent and phone bills and advertising and all that other good stuff that ate them all up  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the way they suck you in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well just today in the mail i got uh i got got my guaranteed acceptance by uh american express  
yeah  
yeah  
as soon as you're a graduate student they get your name  
and uh course i guess i guess i've been [purged] from their records  
i used to have an american express  
uh back when i had my business i got one  
and they they goofed up bad on my on my very first bill  
because i was using the american express strictly for the travel expenses  
and the bill would come in  
and i'd pay it  
and the very first bill i paid it  
and then i got this nasty letter from them saying you're [overdue] pay  
so i said well it just crossed in the mail  
so i didn't do anything about it  
two weeks later i get another letter even [nastier]  
and said we're going to turn this over to our attorneys if you don't pay  
and i looked at that  
and i said uh_huh  
so by this time my checks had come back from the bank  
so i made a copy of the check that they had [cashed]   attached it to their letter and sent them a nasty letter with the card cut in little bitty pieces saying thanks but no thanks  
yeah  
they were i tell you  
they don't talk about they're charging that enormous fee every year  
it's up to fifty five on the gold card  
it's eighty five for the optima  
or i'm sorry no  

no  

yeah  
for the green card  
well now that's the card see  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's um  
well of course on the green card you have to pay it when the bill comes in so there isn't any  
but on the optima card it's  
um let's see right now it's running at about  
it's not too bad  
it's actually it's about sixteen and a half percent which is pretty good as far as credit cards go  
well they're dangerous  
huh_uh  
mine don't either  
mine don't either  
they uh  
my mom has a uh has a mastercard and a visa card  
and that's it  
yeah  
yeah  
now i i do use gas cards  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
plastic is just too easy  
i mean   that's the that's the whole problem with it  
um  
yeah  
sure  
naturally  
that's  
i got into all kinds of trouble doing that  
well   having having been out of the credit game for some years now i've gotten used to either paying in cash or not getting it  
and uh  
well it is  
but i i i'm kind of uh grateful for the experience because it's taught me a lot of restraint  
yeah  
exactly  
i i uh i just went out and got a new v c r yesterday with cash  
and it it's  
no  
i wish i did  
yeah  
i could use a discount  
i have to wait for things to go on sale  
yeah  
especially on electronic goods  
especially now  
circuit city  
yeah  
they they're not their prices aren't that terrific  
they they used to be  
but they've gotten they've got to pay for all that national advertising now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're they're all over the country now  
they they used to be good  
i remember when they first opened up  
they did have good bargains  
i don't know if you have a place there called uh  
or you probably have something similar  
we call it service merchandise  
you got service merchandise  
yeah  
it used to be service merchandise was the place to go  
and uh circuit city came along  
and that was the place to go to get your t v and washer and dryers and refrigerators and all that  
and then after the years went by they just sort of kept creeping up on price  
and actually service merchandise is cheaper than them now  
so  
so much for circuit city  
i don't  
i'm a graduate student  
i'm a professional student  
it is  
it's great  
it is great  
i love it  
n c state  
uh north carolina state  
not yet  
ours don't ours doesn't start until uh next week  
where am i  
what do you mean where  
oh  
in raleigh  
little  
the [burgeoning] [metropolis] of raleigh  
what a dead place  
yeah  
i've got a nice little business at home  
and i sit around and tinker with that most of the time  
um uh human factors  
not a thing  
it's it's really looking at systems and design systems and seeing how people interact with them  
it's well it's more psychology and engineering  
uh  
my my master's is in industrial engineering  
yeah  
p h d in human factors  
well  
oh yeah  
i b m uh  
i mean uh a lot of people use human factors  
folks  
but i b m is what i'm looking at right now  
they might be  
but not at not at the human factors level  
they they're  
no  
as a matter of fact the i b m right here or in [carey] which is a little suburb of raleigh just just hired one more human factors person  
doggone it  
if they'd just waited a little bit longer it could have been  
me   i'm i'm i'm going into or going into the uh dissertation this summer  
uh i'm going to start this summer  
i probably won't finish it until the end of the year  
but uh i'm i'm trying to get a uh [intern] position with i b m right now so that i can find an area to do my dissertation in  
it's hard finding an area to do a dissertation in this field  
yeah  
that's  
that and and it's it's limited application in some respects  
um in the area that we're in here there's a lot of places that use human factors people  
most  
well like i told you before  
and you're talking about credit cards  
we put ours up  
i mean i had a delightful evening one night cutting a bunch of those suckers up  
well you should try it  
yeah  
you lost your business  
oh [gol]  
what a nightmare  
well you weren't charging gold and silver were you  
you can't do that can you  
oh you can  
oh that's a nightmare  
uh_huh  
well i remember before i got married  
you know when you graduate from college they'll send you all those   credit card applications   you know  
of course you fill them all out because you're honored  
and uh i had stuff for like [sanger] harris  
and you know it got up like to couple of hundred dollars  
and i thought well that's okay cause all they wanted was ten dollars a month  
right  
i wasn't thinking a thing about it  
yeah  
i was just stupid  
and every time they had a sale there i was  
because you know got get such good bargains  
and i don't know  
oh yeah  
we've been getting those  
i went back to school and got my master's  
and they started sending those things to me again  
yeah  
they did  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
turned out they weren't [cheeky]  
so what is it now  
what do you mean fifty five  
you mean fifty five dollars  
but then what's the interest  
and interest is like eighteen or something  
yeah  
well credit cards  
you know my parents don't hardly use them  
i've got all my gas cards because i don't want to carry money around  
i'll do that  
now impact is kind of bad too though  
you know especially if you get forget to record those little suckers  
uh_huh  
well and you're tempted if you've got cash a little bit of cash and you don't have enough for the purchase right  
of course you got to charge it and keep your cash  
what are you saying  
oh my husband says i might buy it  
but i i don't really usually consider that an option  
maybe that's how we got in trouble  
yeah  
but it's hard isn't it  
well it makes you feel good when you whip out the cash instead of your plastic  
with cash  
do you work with t i  
no  
yeah  
you could have got a discount couldn't you  
but there's always a sale  
yeah  
what is that thing i saw  
circuit circuit world or something  
circuit city  
have you been in there  
oh it's national  
i think i've seen two around dallas  
well what else  
yeah  
in garland  
uh_huh  
so  
so okay  
what else can we talk about  
who do you work for  
sounds wonderful  
we were talking about that just today  
we could be just lifelong students  
where are you going to school  
what's that  
so you're on spring break  
so where are you  
yeah  
oh okay  
is it  
so what are you getting your degree in  
and what do you do with it  
well what is it  
so it's sociology  
so you're working on your doctorate  
oh lord  
oh that will that will sound wonderful won't it  
get you a little [plaque]  
aren't aren't they laying off several thousand people  
well i heard it on the news today  
i could swear it was i b m  
um  
how much longer do you have  
and get that done this summer  
ooh  
because you  
why  
there has been so much work done already  
okay um  
let's see  
how do you feel about credit cards  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
wow  
right  
well we uh me and my wife when when we have like extra money that we know we're going to have and we can put it in our budget yeah we'll we'll use it  
but like last year i think we paid  
i think it was like twenty something cents interest   on our visa  
and i think this this year we uh i think we used it for christmas  
and we got caught just a few days on our grace period  
and uh so we'll pay a little interest this year but maybe two dollars  
but we don't like to do that at all  
and you know we i think we feel about the same way you do real strongly  
we uh we have several credit cards though  
we have a gas card our visa and then of course the american express  
and i think we have a couple of department stores  
but we use it the same way  
and uh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
it's it's not uncommon for us to have paid it before we even get the bill  
that's usually how we do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's good  
i've i don't think we've gone that far   to pay it in you know in advance before we spend it  
but i guess if you [foresaw] that you were going to have to use it that like that   that may be good  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
especially  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good  
oh from the dallas area  
oh really  
wow  
do you work for t i  
well really  
um i wonder how t i got g t e involved  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you have a very um very  
what's the word  
your your speech is very exact  
oh really  
wow  
yeah  
right  
i work in  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we talked for a good eight minutes about the subject  
so i think you get ten  
so i think we're okay  
well you too  
same here  
bye  
personally i do not care for them uh although i find them a necessity in business and so forth  
i i try to [refrain] from their use as much as possible um for a number of reasons one of which is the you know extreme interest rate on most of them  
the one i use uh of course for mostly only for business purposes is uh you know american express  
and uh i'm not i'm not terribly in favor of them  
not for my own personal uh point of view  
plus it uh has you know from an economic point of view it has increased our debt   tremendously   to the tune of somewhere on the order of five to ten billion i believe  
uh at least that's one number for this range of numbers i have i have heard  
do you use them frequently  
or  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
i find the one i use mostly uh  
aside from the american express i do use my sears card  
but uh i try as with the american express i try to pay it you know as it comes in  
so uh  
i know when i travel or when i used to travel overseas quite a bit what i would do on my american express card is before i would before i left i would mail a check to to american express   and you know have some idea of how much was there you know i'd sent them you know several hundred dollars or whatever   i felt i would spend   and then use it then  
but uh for hotels and and so forth  
but uh but i knew that it was paid  
i knew   i knew that i had that much   credit going in  
sometimes you know sometimes i would go over  
but it wouldn't you know it wouldn't hit me in a big in a big way because   i knew that uh i would have it covered in that respect  
well i found   i found in um in traveling overseas   that uh often it would uh it would [expedite] things to have an american express credit card   for hotel bills and so forth  
plus i would uh when they uh would send the bill they would automatically convert to the exchange rate  
so now the only time that got to be a problem was if the exchange rate changed drastically  
uh for example i remember on one trip to france when i started planning the trip i think uh a dollar was worth nine or ten  
francs   and just in a matter of a week or two the dollar fell against the [franc] drastically  
and when i finally got over there it had fallen uh two or three francs to the dollar  
so the  
so i got caught a little short   in that regard  
but uh   uh i i was anticipating you know my room would cost uh let's say  
if it were say sixty or seventy francs a night   that would mean it would be about ten dollars or so or maybe twenty  
maybe it would be more than that  
it was more than  
it would average out to thirty five or forty dollars a night   which is a reasonable rate  
but then when i got back and i was working for the government at the time  
of course the government was several months behind in   their on its per [diem] for exchange rate  
so there's a little [consternation] you know in trying to get them to compensate   for the difference in the exchange rate  
that was the only time i really got caught short  
and i   but as i said most most of all i try not to use them uh to any you know [lavishly] in that regard  
well from where are you calling  
so you're from  
okay  
i'm from maryland  
yeah  
no  
i work for g t e  
yes  
well i know jack [godfrey]  
i know him very well  
i've known jack for a long time  
and i'm also in the speech business  
so when i heard that jack was going to do this i called him and asked for an application where i could participate   in this  
and so that's how i got involved  
oh thank you very much  
but as jack said i'm one of the the old hands in the speech business  
yeah  
uh yes  
i i've been doing it for twenty some odd years  
and so uh i was very much interested uh in getting involved in uh switchboard  
so uh you work for t i  
oh really  
i guess we're supposed to do this part of it before we started the recording  
alright  
okay  
fine  
well you have a good evening  
it's been pleasant talking to you  
take care  
good night  
okay  
how do you feel about them  
yeah  
well we have this philosophy we use it when we go off somewhere  
but we pay for it as soon as we come back you know  
as soon as we get our bills   we pay it off  
and we only have one  
we tore all the rest of them up  
because i don't like credit cards for one thing you know  
i mean they're okay i guess  
if you're on a trip or something   you don't have to take a whole bunch of you know cash with you  
but i don't like using them because i've seen too many people that used them and ended up bankrupt or on   chapter thirteen and stuff like that  
because they have this weird opinion that if you use that card you don't have to pay for it  
yeah  
yeah  
and it gives you a um a false sense of security or something it seems like  
because you say oh well i don't have to pay for it now  
but you're going to have to pay for it  
and it seems like  
uh_huh  
right  
are you married  
oh okay  
well i know that a lot of young people you know i  
it took me a long time to get it through my child's head  
i mean that was her goal you know uh got to have a credit card  
but now that she has one  
she's only used it one time  
but she wanted to establish some credit  
but i think it finally [sunk] in you know because she saw some of the other people and just like she heard them say you know well i used a credit card  
and my husband's sister is the world's worst at oh  
well i'll just use the credit cards  
and she has all of her credit cards up to the limit  
you know and i'm i'm thinking woman wake up and smell the roses before they come and get you  
but  
right  
and people don't see that either  
right  
the only one that we we have that we kept was the discover card  
and it pays you to use it   i mean if you pay your bill off right away   if you don't ever have to pay any interest on it because they give you a certain amount every time that you use it  
and you make that money as long as you don't ever have to pay them any uh interest  
now it's  
and people say well you know i'm making money by using this credit card  
but they don't realize that if they  
i mean it only takes one time for you to use it and not pay the interest  
i mean you have to pay the interest not pay it right off  
that's going to take up what you would have made  
so that's the only reason that we kept that  
we debated for a long time  
plus they don't have that um charge on it you know  
like  
yeah  
right  
they don't have one of those  
so it  
we decided that was it you know  
and i mean everybody calls us and wants to give us a credit card  
we have we could have credit cards running down our ears  
yes  
yes  
and then i'll have just like uh department stores  
they'll call me up you know  
and i'll say  
look i don't want the credit card  
well we're just going to send it to you you know  
you don't have to ever use it if you don't want to  
they'll send me any credit card  
i tear it up  
i just can't see it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know it  
and you know what  
what's really bad about those though is just like  
young people if they don't you know  
we take the time to you know help my daughter  
she's in college  
but it this is her first credit card thing  
well when she got her first one she was so excited  
it was unreal  
look at this they sent me this money you know  
so then when i explained to her look you have to pay this back and they are going to charge you interest and stuff  
of course she tore it up  
but a lot of parents would not take the time you know  
and they wouldn't even think of it  
or their kids may not be as close as my daughter  
and i  
are  
and uh you know they may not even discuss it  
they go out and cash their check thinking that you know  
they've got something  
maybe they've won something  
you know somebody sent them something free  
and go out and spend it  
and um it's just unreal  
i mean i don't like credit cards  
i wish that they would come up with some other way to you know  
the only way you could use them is if you were like on vacation  
they would let you use it maybe once a year  
you know i mean of course i guess some people go out and spend their whole entire limit on it like that at that time  
but um i have seen so many people  
and i have a friend right now she just got off of thirteen  
she got uh  
i can't remember what she called it  
it's some kind of  
maybe it's sure or something like that  
it's something it's some weird name of a credit card  
and she is charging out of her mind already  
and i'm going  
you just got off  
that's how you got on to it to start with you know what is the matter with this person  
but um it seems like people just you know they just think well i can just have anything i want  
and i just don't see it like that  
of course i always see pay the bills first  
and whatever's leftover that's what you have  
but um maybe a lot of people don't see it like that  
but i can't stand owing  
i mean i cannot fully tolerate to owe something like you know  
i guess it's just because i've been brought up like that  
but um i could not charge to the limit and knowing that i was going to have to pay this thing out for ever and maybe suffer from having to [payout]  
but that's just the way i feel about it  
right  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i guess it is like that though because it seems like more and more people are like that  
but um i guess it's because i'm older  
i mean i'm not real old  
but i am older  
and um you know i didn't feel like that i didn't feel like i had to have everything  
i guess it was because  
well i had everything when i was at home  
but i i don't know why i didn't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
well it didn't hurt you did it to  
i mean you didn't go out and charge a whole bunch and lose everything did you  
yeah  
well you learned then  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i keep trying to get away from them  
i used to use a lot of credit cards  
i guess for a while i would use you know a variety of the visa and the mastercard and the stores  
but i think i i impulse buy too much with them  
or i buy things you know i see it on sale  
and i think oh it's on sale i have to get it  
and i really don't need it  
or i really haven't budgeted for it  
so um the last couple of years i really have tried not to use them at all  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
if if it's on the credit card it doesn't seem like it's money out of your pocket  
sometimes you may think well i don't have the money so you use the credit card it's like fake money or something  
yeah  
you think well i don't have it now but payday will come and then i'll have the money  
but that's probably paying for things that were still owed from last time  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
besides the fact that how much interest you pay and then this  
yeah  
this thing that you thought you got on sale by the time you get done paying with that with all the finance charges because you pay it off over a long period of time  
you've spent a heck of a lot of money on that thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
service charge you mean  
yearly fee  
yeah  
oh you get that stuff in the mail all the time  
what i really hate in the mail is like for the credit cards that i do have still   that they send you these things that look like checks  
and they say hey you know two thousand dollars you know free to you kind of thing you know  
all you got to do is go cash those things  
and you've got a short term loan  
i hate it  
i can't believe they have the nerve to do that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's it's somewhat a uh symptom of our me generation  
and that  
we think we need all these things  
and i think my parents always you know did without or saved up to you know buy things  
and we consider that so many of these things we just have to have you know  
like when i first got my apartment and i was setting it up i did try to [economize] some  
but you know i was just like well i have to have it all [furnished] and i have to have all of my kitchen setup  
and you don't you know do without too much  
and you know that's how i got started kind of with setting up a household all up you know it kind of like in the short amount of time  
you know you just have to have these things just you know have them at home have to have them at my own place  
and that's you know a big expenditure to start um buying all these things that you think or or have to have  
and actually they're kind of luxuries  
or you should save up slowly and keep buying them and not just rush out and [furnish] the whole place   you know going in one big [swoop] save up and then buy it  
but we're not into that  
we're into like have to have it all now  
well we're geared to that  
we're like  
okay  
like i want a living room set and instead of sitting back and and going okay well it's going to cost maybe a thousand dollars two thousand dollars  
and i'll save for two years  
people go oh well i'll just go buy it put it on credit and they'll pay it off  
people aren't tuned in to like saving for it and then buying it  
they just put it on a charge card put it on account   and then pay off the bill because they want it now  
it's always have to have it now  
no  
no  
but i have had some times when i've had some pretty good balances on there  
and uh you know i finally you know paid them all off and thought this is you know kind of nonsense  
so we don't uh have big balances on them at  
all now we're we're you know we  
i use it occasionally  
but i pay it right off  
we're  
yeah  
you learn the you know the hard way you hate paying all that interest  
and i've never been one to itemize on my income tax and never had enough to itemize  
and so it's just a big chunk of money  
and you realize that you're not buying anything on sale your paying so much more for that item because you've got finance charge and the cost of having that card every year which is what forty dollars sometimes just to have the card  
that's a lot of money that you went to buy this item  
and then you never feel like you've got anything to to put into savings or anything  
you're always just paying bills paying bills you know  
you don't feel that you have any extra to save  
and i hate i hate living paycheck to paycheck  
i like to have a little there you know  
that i can save  
so i can feel that you know if something comes up i've got the money to pay for it  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
you have a lot of discipline  
they make it really easy for people to uh to get credit cards especially college students  
i have uh two daughters who who both are in college  
or in fact one has finished now  
but they both have a lot of credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh right  
and then they they give you uh uh the credit limit  
and then you're always seemingly up to that limit  
now i have quite a few credit cards that i'm always almost up to the limit on most of them  
and that's that's how a lot of people get into trouble  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well you have a lot of discipline  
i uh i'm trying my best right now to pay off some of mine  
i i've i've paid off about four credit cards this year  
and uh but still i have some that are are up to the limit  
and especially the visa card   that you can go and get cash on  
and it seems like every time i'm short of cash i just go get get it from visa  
uh_huh  
uh  
well uh you can go in a bank and just hand them the visa card and say i want a cash advance  
or if they've sent you a uh a number that you can use you know a a personal identification number   that you can use in the uh impact machines or whatever you   you can do that  
because i have one that i don't have a pin number for  
you know sometimes you have to ask them for that  
and then i have one that uh just gave me the pin number automatically  
uh_huh  
right  
oh wow  
well they they do that a lot if you have good credit and you have been paying your bills on time  
everybody in the world will offer you a a credit card  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well you know the way the economy's going and inflation and the recession and all that i think we we really need to try to stay out of debt as much as possible  
that's that's why i've i've really started to try to to pay off mine and get out of debt because we never know when we might you know get laid off or   something  
especially me  
i work for texas instruments  
and they've had had a lot of of uh you know layoffs lately  
you do  
where are you  
johnson city  
uh_huh  
i   know they're selling out somebody in colorado springs  
yeah  
it it certainly is  
i've uh i have worked on a part part time job uh where i was a collector   for uh uh a jewelry company  
people uh that  
they just had this jewelry account  
it was [zales] jewelry in fact  
and uh a whole bunch of  
i mean they have about a thousand [collectors] i guess  
and uh there's just so many people that have bought jewelry which is really a luxury item  
and then they they just can't pay for it  
something something happens  
you know and you hear so many stories listening to them like uh you know they lost their job  
or uh they they've signed for a friend  
you know they got it in their name  
but they   got it for a friend  
and then the friend   wouldn't pay them  
and now they're stuck with the bill  
and it's ruining their credit  
and   you really have to watch it this you know  
because  
yeah  
because every every month all of these credit cards report to the credit bureau you know automatically most of them do  
yeah  
and if you if you're uh  
it's bad because if you you know your bill is due on the fifteenth   then [y-] you're not past due until the fifteenth of the next month  
but you know if you if you pay one day after that fifteenth you're not one day late  
you're thirty days late  
right  
right  

and anyway we need to watch our credit reports and all that kind of  
uh_huh  
well you know you you can do that  
i believe it costs about ten dollars  
oh yeah  
it is  
it is  
you might even find somebody's been reporting on you  
and you didn't even know it  
you know you i mean you might think you're paying something on time  
or and you by that day  
and you're thirty days is not real bad though anyway   if you've got a charge off on your credit report or something like that  
that's when it really gets bad  
or something you haven't paid in sixty days or ninety days you know and things like that  
uh_huh  
do they charge a lot of interest on that card  
i don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well always watch out for anybody who bills you out of atlanta georgia  
or there's a couple of other places that are able to charge us like twenty one and twenty two percent interest  
i know i had a charge with uh [spiegel]  
and i hadn't read the uh terms of the credit agreement really  
and uh when i did i you know i realized that that it just looked seemed like i was never paying the balance off   you know  
and i looked at the credit card agreement one day  
and it was like twenty three percent interest  
and that's the one bill that i hurry up [hurried] and paid up  
and   and i've always watched it since then  
you really have to watch those interest rates  
i mean  
that's true  
so anyway they can't bill you any higher than eighteen percent i think in in texas  
but   there there are a couple of states that can  
and one to watch out for is anybody that bills you out of atlanta atlanta georgia  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
i wonder if they  
i started when i was in college  
you know they always offer credit cards for college students  
so i went ahead and accepted every one that i was offered   because i knew it would be easier to go ahead and get them and establish credit early  
so i i pack around a lot of them  
but i only use a few of them  
yeah  
and they give you such high credit limits  
it's it's easy to get caught up in the minimum payment trap  
yeah  
i've got i've got two that i you know that usually i'll have a balance on  
and then all of the others i just try to use kind of like you would an american express card and and pay it off every month  
and that way i feel like i'm getting you know a thirty day loan  
but i don't have to worry about you know running them up too high except at christmas  
then they usually go then they usually get run up pretty good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now that's one that's  
i've never used my visa for cash before  
can you use it like at a bank machine  

or  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
now we got  
that's that's funny you said that because we got a credit card uh my husband and i got credit cards in the mail one day that we hadn't even applied for  

now a couple of weeks later we got we got pin numbers  
and then we got uh a bill saying you know uh the yearly fee it was like forty dollars  
and we we cut them up and sent them back because we we hadn't even applied for them  
and we didn't want them  
but they they had just automatically approved us and sent them without even [contacting] us  
so i thought man i don't know if i trust this or not  
it's like let's see if we can get her to run up her bills  
but it's hard  
i mean it's it's tempting when you see something to say well i'll just charge it  
and sometimes i'll do that  
but usually i i will try to pay everything off the next month  
or   the ones that usually have an outstanding balance all the time i'll i'll pay more than the minimum payment  
just i i feel like even that little bit helps  
i know it  
well i work for t i too  
and i think they're getting ready to to probably sell us out our division  
in johnson city tennessee  
yeah  
yeah  
they just they just announced that didn't they  
so i mean it's it's kind of a bad time to be a slave to your credit cards  
uh_huh  
man  
yeah  
oh  
didn't pay them  
man  
that's scary  
i didn't realize that  
yeah  
oh okay  
they don't they don't recognize any time difference do they  
ooh  
that's scary  
that's something i never thought about getting you know checking with to see what what your credit report looked like  
might be worth it for peace of mind  
yeah  
i think that discover card has a good idea with you know giving you a little cash back incentive for each amount you you purchase as long as you don't go crazy trying to get cash back  
and since they don't have the yearly fee  
i don't know  
i've never i haven't gotten one   just because it's uh uh  
i felt like with visa and mastercard and american express you didn't need another one  
i would think it wouldn't be you know much more than the eighteen or nineteen percent everyone else charges  
so that that wouldn't be too bad  
yeah  
holy cow  
definitely  
that's awful  
i mean there's no point in giving them any more money than we have to  
so  
oh that's great  
i'll try to remember that one  
well let's see  
i was trying to think if there was anything else  
uh the i guess the worst problem i ever had with with a credit card though was um i got a an item on my bill that i had never purchased  
i had ordered a sofa and had filled out the paperwork  
but they weren't supposed to process it until they delivered it  
and i changed my mind  
but then they went ahead and charged it on my account  
and it took me about eighteen months to get that all of that mess off of my account  
so that's that's probably the worst thing i've ever had happen with a credit card  
i don't  
guess we got our first uh credit card oh back in the seventies early seventies when   i first got married  
was a visa card uh issued out of a liberty bank in oklahoma city  
because my sister worked at the uh the visa some bank [americard] center there  
so we were still in college  
and had she not worked there i'm not sure that i would have qualified  
they've come in handy over the years  
uh and they have become or also a a real bother sometimes  
especially you know if you catch yourself short on cash or if you're on vacation   it's just easier to put everything on a card  
and uh i find if you're not careful you wind up uh a month or so staring those bills in the face  
and you go i don't remember doing all that stuff  
and it adds up  
so sometimes uh especially traveling with t i   you know everything goes on american express  
and it makes it a whole lot easier for [bookkeeping]  
but uh as far as personal life goes i guess i really try to use them as little as possible uh  
i kind of like having them for uh gasoline purchases  
yeah  
but other than that uh i i guess over the years tried to avoid the national credit card syndrome   of just putting everything on there day after day after day  
and then   then you really get [socked] to it if you don't watch it  
how how do you look at counting credit cards  
well that's  
right  
well that's kind of the way we were doing  
it's uh  
i guess for that very reason that that uh if you're not real conscious of what you're doing   it's just too much by the time you get  
well if you got a bunch of cards   you get a bunch of bills every month  
and for some strange reason those people think they need to get paid  
yeah  
and i give them  
maybe not maybe they're not really concerned about getting paid  
because they're  
know if you don't   then they're adding on what eighteen nineteen twenty percent  
sometimes   it's twenty two percent interest  
yeah  
i guess that's one of the motivations behind the   the uh   the uh american express card with t i  
there's no  
with the american express card from t i   there's no um late fee  
there's no uh interest rate  
you you either pay the thing off  
or they come get it  
and it's turned into personnel  
and they come get you  
so they've got quite a bit more motivation i think to get paid then   some of the others do  
but that's the one that your call center manager sees every month  
so you're a little bit more careful about what you put on that   even though you can use it however you want to  
oh yeah  
you can use it like any other card  
and uh   but it you know you kind of you know that somebody every month  
and who knows how many people   are looking at those uh bills that come in and those statements  
you're not the only one  
so uh you want to make sure that uh is that okay  
is that okay that those people see what it is that you are buying  
and most of the time it is  
but most of the others i've sent back i mean all you get is card offers  
i've got three card offers now   uh from gas companies and uh visa gold and uh some other bank uh  
[citibank] i think is always sending the visa stuff out  
and i usually just throw them away because i   i don't want another one  
i don't want to have to mess with it  
you know you carry around a wallet full of credit cards  
and uh one of these days it's going to all be full  
oh that's not bad  
yeah  
no  
if they don't say no annual membership on them i'll throw them away  
um   years ago well i had my visa card through this bank in oklahoma city for   oh probably fifteen years  
and then they started charging uh annual membership fees  
and i said [adios] i'm you know i'm not paying you  
it's just another way to make money   as far as i can tell  
i mean they've been  
well sure  
and they i guess they figure they've got enough people out there with cards  
they're going to get cards at the   twenty bucks a pop  
there's going to be that much more  
uh so then a couple years ago i found uh a bank here in plano that if you kept a minimum balance in any kind of account whether it was a savings account or what it was you can get a visa card through them and no annual membership  
so i went over and just stuck three hundred dollars in my son's savings account in his name and got my visa card  
so   as long as they have no annual membership fee   i it would be okay  
but i can't see paying someone to use their card  
be charged their eighteen percent interest  
so   yeah  
i think you're right  
the best philosophy is have them if you need them but otherwise leave them tucked away somewhere  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure does  
maybe they're counting on that  
i don't know  
well i guess that's it  
thanks for talking  
bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh tell me about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they add up quick  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we like to keep one on hand just for emergencies you know  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we just uh quit using them  
and they got us in trouble  
we took a loan and paid them all off  
we keep them uh we keep uh one gas card and uh and uh visa just you know in case there's an emergency or   something  
but other than that we don't use them anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
isn't that funny  
yeah  
yeah  
and then some of them add late fees on it   if they don't get paid  
and  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
can you use that one for personal use  
oh you can  
uh_huh  
oh i see huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i do too  
i don't even open them much  
i throw them out  
uh_huh  
a girlfriend of mine found a  
it was a visa or mastercard  
she found an ad for one in like a good housekeeping magazine for eleven percent  
shoot i need one of those  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
why do they do that  
i mean   i mean they get enough you know on the interest  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
i can't either  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
gets a lot of people in in trouble  
okay  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
well what are your  
did you like do you use credit cards  
huh_uh  
so it doesn't get uh uh the credit uh  
the interest rate is so high that you're really  
if you're going to use credit cards you need to use that policy i think don't you  
otherwise you end up paying so much more for your merchandise that it's hardly   uh it's not a very good idea  
well i have a lot of them  
but i don't use them very much though  
i use them mostly for big things like maybe sometimes uh tuition if it's you know if i'm short to go ahead and get it and then try to get it saved back as quick as i can  
the other thing i i think if you do get overextended a little bit you need to be sure and pay it off uh more than one at a time because i think you could run forever paying what they require  
just goes on and on  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
there are times   when it's when it's very useful   like uh emergency trip   or something  
sometimes when you when you  
the money will be available  
but it's you know not immediately handy  
i think uh they're very helpful plus the fact that it's helpful not to have to carry a lot of money sometimes  
but uh i you really do need to be very um oh responsible about it  
or you end up in deep trouble  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that can be very handy under those kind of circumstances  
the other thing about them is too if you really don't you really need to get some and use them because if you have never used them and developed and haven't developed a credit thing it stops you from doing a lot of things  
if you   if you pay for everything by cash uh there is a lot of things that a lot of people who will not give you credit when you need something like a house or   a car  
so so they they have become a very vital part of our of our monetary system   over the last few years  
but uh it's true  
you have to be very careful or you end up uh going in the deep end  
and uh and an awful lot of people are in trouble  
we have a boy living with us who works for a credit card uh company that  
and he makes calls to people who have problems you know credit problems   that are trying to work out  
and uh poor thing he comes home very depressed every night   because the world has so many problems of that sort  
so it's   it's uh it's uh it's a really big problem i think and um takes mature people to to treat it uh  
so that it's so that it's a real advantage to you instead of a disadvantage  
yeah  
right  
it didn't do you any good now does it  
even before it probably wasn't though because you didn't get anywhere near as much as what it   you didn't get to claim anywhere near what you ended up paying  
so well i'm not  
other than that i don't have too much on credit cards  
but  
it's good to talk to you  
uh_huh  
bye now  
uh not very often  
i usually uh  
the ones we use is like visa  
and we always try to pay it back at the end of the month  
i have uh uh  
right  
yeah  
that's right  
do you have a lot of credit cards  
right  
oh yeah  
which is what they want  
i think a lot of people go in debt because they think oh you know i can just charge it  
but really i mean if they don't have the money then they aren't going to have it in a month  
so  
they uh make the mistake of   pushing all their cards  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i made that mistake when i first got a job  
and that's kind of like  
it took me quite a while to pay them off  
so after that i decided well i'm not going to use them at all and just try to pay cash for everything  
and that worked for a while  
and then we got married  
so we decided to you know if we used them we would pay them off as we go  
so  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
i think um the way the tax system was they encouraged people to use credit cards you know with a big write off at the end of the year  
but now it's like it's punch money because  
you cannot  
right  
you cannot write off your interest  
yeah  
yeah  
you too  
thanks for calling  
bye  
hi  
what do you do with your credit cards  
oh jeez  
oh i was going to say that that sounds like like pretty many  
but i see what you meant  
you had them for each of the individual stores  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gee  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but each of these had an annual fee also right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
forty five  
right uh  
i  
exactly you know  
i that's it  
i really resented the fact that they were charging me for cards  
so i sent back all of mine except the ones that were free  
and um then then i also limited it to one of each one mastercard and one visa  
and here most of the stores will accept those  
and actually i then got a discover card since they pay you back  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
actually i pay off my cards every month  
only once in my life have i not paid  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and also in a sense they're giving you a loan for a month  
so that   you know if i were smarter i would have that same amount in savings and get the interest which i don't   do  
but but yeah  
the the thought of adding you know x percent to to the price of what i buy   i just i can't accept  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that i would that would be a very scary feeling for me to know that i was you know juggling payments to different people   i guess because i never experienced it  
and it's not because you know i'm rich or anything  
it's just a mental concept that i have   yeah  
that i just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but it sounds like you know you you learned from it  
and you're coming out of it all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but now the fact that you still have two cards  
are you do you use them more [judiciously]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
purchases  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
clothing sales  
sales i find are a pain  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it sounds good you know  
like i said it sounds like you're you've really got it under control  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and like i said once once it it happened i couldn't because my son's tuition came due  
and i guess i had you know not really counted on it quite at that point  
but um yeah  
i didn't like it at all  
i was very uncomfortable  
so  
you know and and i mean it was i thought a lot  
sixty dollars interest or something for for just a couple of months  
and i'm going   jeez that's outrageous  
but in in you know retrospect it wasn't all that much  
i mean a lot of people pay a lot more  
and   and you know but still i mean i figured i didn't need those items if it cost me sixty dollars more to have them  
exactly  
groceries for a week  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but now did you use to not feel so badly because you could take it off your income tax  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
thrown away  
yeah  
jeez  
you were good at it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i suspect that you know thinking about it and looking at my friends and the number of credit cards that they use and you know the amount that i know they buy i guess probably a lot of them are in a similar situation and you know just don't talk about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
very personal  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and especially if you if you don't feel you're handling it quite right   or that somebody might make fun of you or that it would be  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but but once i suppose you you prove yourself by paying this off next year   you'll be in very good shape  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well my husband and i have gotten into some some problems with credit cards  
we don't handle them very well  
we we tend to run them up to the maximum and then ask for more  
they they're they're really bad for us  
um matter of fact we've gotten rid of all of our credit cards except for a mastercard and a visa  
and we pretty much keep those maxed out  
yeah  
we had i had probably twenty credit cards   for  
i had i had an american express american express gold an optima all the different department stores um two visas two mastercards  
i mean i had  
any time anybody would you know send me an application you know preapproved or whatever i went i took it  
and it really ended up getting us in some real serious trouble  
um because see the more credit cards you have the more people offer them to you  
and the more you use them the more they send them to you  
exactly  
the american express was probably the worst um because with the gold card  
i can't remember how much it was because i didn't even have it very long before i gave it up  
but i know the green card was like thirty five five dollars a year  
which was a lot  
because i mean you had to pay it in full every month  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had a discover  
and that was one of the ones in the group that i ended up um closing  
um it really wasn't my choice though  
i mean i ended up having i ended up actually losing my credit cards  
um i ended up going through a credit counseling service   um because my husband and i just don't handle credit very well  
and um when when you do that they automatically once you start with their service they close your accounts out  
so i'm still paying on all these accounts  
but my accounts are closed  
so and i would prefer to keep it that way  
once we once we're paid off   um i would prefer just to have one mastercard and one visa  
and that's it  
i think that's a really good way to handle it because that way if you if you paid off every month you never have to worry about well how much do i have to pay these guys you know this month you know  
this you buy what you can afford  
i mean   if you handle it just like you would like a check or cash   it's a lot easier to keep it in check  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i   and i think at this at this point in time with the economy the way it is i think that um it's going to get even worse  
um i'm i'm glad that we're starting to pay our debts off now um you know  
we only we started this last year  
and we probably still have about another year to go   before we're completely out of the hole  
but i think this they way the whole economy is going right now it's just not good to be in debt  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well when you when you're getting rid of the whole credit card cycle and if you really get into the mind set i got really good at juggling money and basically robbing peter to pay paul  
and it was scary because i was so good at it  
and i thought this is not right  
i mean this has got to stop because eventually it'd end up catching up at catching up with me  
and it hit me in the face  
um  
i yeah  
i have  
i've learned a lot from it  
i've learned that credit cards are extremely dangerous in my hand   and my husband's too because he's he's the same way i am  
i don't i don't think that  
well when we buy on credit we just don't have a concept of how much money we're spending   until the bill comes in  
and then all of a sudden you look at the bill  
and you go oh my gosh  
i spent this much  
yeah  
we pretty much use them for emergency type things like transmission fell out on our car  
and that paid for a new transmission  
um and and things like that  
um and we try not to use them for   [incidental] type things like you know gas and stuff like that  
yeah  
yeah  
i've i've gotten i've gotten a lot more away from from credit cards  
and i pay by check a lot more now  
i i admire you for having having that mind set for not not even getting you know past the thirty days  
i would that's ideally the where where i would like to be  
uh_huh  
i can imagine  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
think about what you can buy for sixty dollars  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think about all all the money that that we've spent on interest   on all of our credit cards  
and it's just incredible  
we've never been able to take it off our income tax  
i'm i'm fairly newly married  
i've only been married less than two years  
and before that i never owned a home or anything  
so i never had any deductions  
so really it was always just money   thrown away  
and i never really thought about it because  
yeah  
i was so good at it that it just kind of got stuck in the back of my mind and just never   um became a real problem until all of a sudden it came an [insurmountable] problem  
yeah  
most most people don't like to talk about money  
they feel uncomfortable i think  
you know   for a lot of people it is very personal  
yeah  
but i think the the average american is probably pretty heavily in debt not not including like a mortgage  
a mortgage is an understandable debt   because that's you have you have to have a roof over your head  
and i would much rather own my own home than than be renting it like we're doing  
i mean we're basically you know kind of throwing seven hundred dollars a month away  
we're renting a house  
but you know right now with the way our credit card situation is there's nobody in the world that's going to give us a mortgage on a house  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's going to it's going to take quite a while  
hopefully within five years we'll be in our own home  
but um i'm not really counting on it real soon  
okay  
yeah  
we well we have quite a few  
but we don't really use them a lot  
we have well we like a lot of gasoline credit cards   because we like to be able to stop you know when we're traveling and stuff wherever there's a station  
but as far as like mastercard and visa we don't use those too often  
what about you  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
huh  
oh is it like an automatic debit  
or  
oh huh  
oh really  
yeah  
we use our credit cards sometimes for a big purchase  
but we always have the money set aside already to  
and then we just pay it off the next   month  
we never pay we don't like to pay interest on the credit cards at all  
yeah  
gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
we we screwed up one time like that too  
we mailed it  
and they just never did get it  
and we had to finally mail them another check  
huh  
yeah  
i don't either  
no  
you figure   you'll get your check back if you have to  
yeah  
really  
i like to use my card if i buy something through the mail which i don't do real often or something from out of state you know where if something is wrong   you don't want to end up having to pay for it  
a couple times i've had to write big credit card companies and say you know i didn't really get this  
or i don't know what this is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
it's  


yeah  
if you filed that letter with them then they will kind of  
yeah  
i'm like you too   about the yearly fees  
i don't uh i don't like to pay the yearly fee for a card  
right now both the mastercard and the visa we don't have to pay a yearly fee on  
and   since we don't pay the interest it doesn't really matter what the interest rate   is too just as long as we don't have to pay that yearly fee  
now we had american express cards  
and my husband had always had that before we got married  
and those got so high we finally decided for him and me both to have a card it was like ninety dollars or something i think  
i can't remember  
but we decided let that one go  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but yeah  
like you said if you really if you need that extra for charging tickets and stuff   it's more worth it  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that wouldn't be too hard to do  
yeah  
have you ever run into problems of charging up more than you meant to and having to   be stuck with that  
we've never had   that problem either  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess it depends on whoever you buy it from how fast they turn them in or something  
lot of places have  
i guess they're called those pointed sale [terminals] where it's like it goes in the minute   you charge it  
yeah  
oh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
that's nice  
right  
yeah  
i like that feature  
and the like if you break it yourself even you know  
if you buy something that's [breakable]  
yeah  
oh really  
oh i didn't know that  
hi  
do you have lots of credit cards  
uh_huh  
um i used to have a ton of gas credit cards  
and now i have one or two of them  
but i think i've even let some of them [expire]  
but i was living out of the country for a while  
so i wasn't using them too much  
and i don't drive that much  
but i have you know mastercard and visa as you know  
i have a mastercard and an american express now  
i got rid of the visa because it was getting out of hand having fifteen million cards  
but as long as  
like my mastercard is um free as long as you spend about i don't know three thousand dollars a year or something like that  
and so i tend to buy almost all major purchases on a credit card   when i have the choice  
and um i used to even use it for my grocery shopping and stuff  
the stores around here don't let you do it too much  
and so i don't  
but i was living in france  
and there you pay for everything by credit card  
but it's not really a credit card  
it's a it's a debit card  
yeah  
and um just you know it's many times you get out of the store faster if you pay with that than if you pay with cash  
bye  
thanks  
um yeah  
because they're just so well set up with it  
right  
well  
yeah  
i i never pay finance charges on them except when i screw up which i occasionally do  
and you know i'll forget to pay the bill by the due date  
or this last month i mailed a check to them on the twenty second  
and they didn't get it until the [thirtieth]  
and it was   due the twenty fifth  
and you know so i thought i  
and so i got hit up with a uh finance charge on it which pissed me off   because um you know i really did mail it in time  
but they have no proof of that  
i don't i don't want to probably talk to them some more discuss it  
but i i never um usually never pay finance charges  
i had that hassle one time  
and that went on for months and months and months because  
and they eventually found the check and deposited it  
and months later they were still telling me that i owed them finance charges and um late fees and things like that  
and i said well i mailed you a check  
and you eventually did deposit it  
so you know i guess i don't know who the the burden of proof is on  
you know kind of the  
because you never  
when i pay bills i don't make a xerox copy of it  
or i don't   um  
right  
or i don't get a i don't mail them all a signed receipt whatever i   you know at the bank to have a proof of when i mailed it  
and i mean you can't do that  
it would be ridiculous  
right  
well you can  
right  
or i returned it  
so don't charge it  
yeah  
well that's basically what happened with us is we bought a computer  
and the computer um wasn't didn't do what these people said it would do  
we need to just put external cards in  
and it wouldn't do that  
so he brought it back to them  
and they're supposed to [modify] it  
and so i called the credit card company and said well we haven't really taken possession because it's not useful for us  
we can't use it  
and then they said well then don't pay it  
and then a month later i had to dispute it in writing  
and i was out of the country and got back  
and i took care of it as as soon as we got the computer back  
and it was okay  
i mailed off a check  
but then it was too late  
so now they're hitting me up there with a finance charge  
but it's sort of you know  
it's it's half our fault  
and so  
right  
if i had filed the letter to dispute it and then paid it eventually it would have been okay  
so i learned that for the next time  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well my husband and i both have that  
and i don't know what we pay for his card  
i pay i think  
i have a gold one  
so   i think it's like seventy five dollars for me  
and i'm not quite sure what it is for him  
but i had really like  
there  
nowadays i'm not so sure that it's worth it  
but um in the past there you know there are some places that only take american express  
and then they don't have the credit limit because i've over done the credit limit on the other card  
if my husband and i both travel   it you know a couple of plain tickets and a little bit more and you're over the limit on the credit card  
and um with the american express they say there is no limit  
there really is  
but they   tell you that  
but then that was one advantage  
but that's like  
i don't  
i think it's seventy five dollars for me and forty for him   for a year which is a lot  
be  
yeah  
well   we should probably get another um visa card   one another one that's free  
because there are some  
like i think a t and t has one that's free if you make two purchases a year  
well so  
yeah  
and so that's easy enough to do  
and if that's true that's um it might be better off to have that as a second card just to have the credit   and get rid of the american express because it costs so much  
no  
no  
i  
and i don't i mean i guess i do understand the mentality of people doing it  
but i don't understand  

because people think it doesn't really cost them anything to pay  
i have had months where i was shocked at how much had come in because like i thought i would buy a big expense and think that it would take one or two months to process  
and sometimes it comes in right away  
and it's like oh well guess   i have to pay that too  
because like many times i'll i'll buy some things towards the end of the month thinking hey i won't get that bill until the next bill   not this bill  
and it will come in on the next one  
you have to pay for it right away anyway  
but sometimes the is long  
like i've had things that i didn't get [billed] on for two or three months  
yeah  
immediately  
yeah  
but that's what happened with us  
like we bought a washing machine seven months ago  
and that i got [billed] like the next day  
it didn't matter because we couldn't have paid for it by check  
but we prefer  
like with the credit card you get the automatic um one year guarantee so if something breaks things like that  
you can uh return it so like the washing machine we bought it in october  
and you know if something goes wrong with it within the first year we've got an automatic guarantee on it besides the manufacturer's guarantee  
and [somethings] like that are  
right  
or if it gets stolen or if you lose it or whatever it might be  
and so so that's you know another advantage and then even things like airline tickets you automatically get flight insurance which um you hopefully you never use  
but like if your  
but things like if your baggage gets lost you get money for that   to buy new bags and things like that  
and yeah  
when you rent a car you get that  
and sometimes you get discounts with the cards  
and so  
do you use credit cards a good bit  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
absolutely  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well actually i i have a whole wallet full of credit cards  
i don't use them very often  
um oh i may use i try to use at least one gasoline credit card a week and try to use a different one so that you know i have keep those active  
i have a half a dozen department store credit cards  
and i i'll use those if i need to run in and buy a dozen pair hose right quick   or something like that  
just enough to keep them active  
my [biggies] are the visa mastercard and discover  
and for the most part i had used those for like uh charging airline tickets where i can pay for those you know you could   make the transaction over the telephone  
or i fly southwest a good little bit which means i can just run that card through the machine  
uh and it saves a lot time  
and that's what i was using it for  
however we had a had a a very pressing financial family crisis which said you have no alternative  
you must have the money to do this with  
and you do not have any other options  
so i charged all three of those cards up  
and right now i am paying and praying  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i never did   right  
i never did use it for an advance  
most of my charges were uh medications  
didn't have cash for the medications  
or it was uh the doctor would accept mastercard or visa  
and uh   a lot of times you can get by using those for uh uh  
different labs will   use those charge accounts for  
uh_huh  
well i have not  
like i said that was just one period in my life where that was critical  
i don't generally charge  
i say well i need a checkup in six months  
and i kind of set that aside   and just pay for it  
i'm reimbursed on insurance anyway  
and i can handle you know paying for it and waiting two or three weeks  
getting into a credit card fiasco is easy  
it is easy  
and it's very difficult to get out  
i just cringe every month when i see those interest charges  
i say wow  
i i ought to go to the credit union and borrow the money and pay this off  
big deal  
i'm saving two percent  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
and   it's not just paying back what you've charged  
it's   paying that and half again  
uh you send in uh uh fifty dollars  
you're going to pay twenty twenty five in interest charges  
you only get half of that paid for the principal  
so i'm looking at three or four years before my balances are cleared on those charge accounts  
now as the monthly payment uh i mean as the monthly payment amount goes down that will free up more cash where i can continue to make the larger payments  
uh as long as i don't have a major disaster where i have to use it again i can i can do that  
meantime though i'm not building any reserves  
anything that i could be put aside into savings is going for interest on those cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you either need a big chunk of money  
or you need a large reserve   so that if you do charge on that account you can make a single lump sum payment  
now those are very handy  
if you have the reserves and you can make lump sum payments sharp good   no problem  
because you're living on the other guy's money for a while  
but i can promise you that those credit card companies are going to ride high on my money  
and it just irks me  
i say my gosh i had to work three hours just to pay the interest on this  
and i've got three cards  
i've lost a whole day of my life   to interest  
yeah  
yeah  
and that just blows my mind  
i my house is paid for  
my car is paid for  
i've got some home improvements  
but even the payment on that doesn't equal the payment on one of those credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i think   that is a good healthy safe use   of credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i went to a seminar  
they said don't ever use your credit card for [consumable] items  
you only use credit cards for investments  
i said for crying out loud if i had the money to you know   if i could do some investing you'd have to invest at better than twenty percent earnings in order   to pay for the payments on the credit card  
that doesn't make a bit of sense to me  
i thought   god [dang] where is his pencil  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you also have to have that willingness to commit to that   because you're committing a good portion of your life and income when you do it  
i do  
and i wish i didn't  
before i got married uh about the only credit cards i used were gas cards because i didn't like carrying you know   the cash with me all the time  
but i just never wanted to get into the hang up of using credit cards and   having all those bills hanging over my head  
in fact i remember getting my first mastercard  
and the only reason i got it was you know there was a while   years ago when you couldn't cash a check   without like a mastercard or visa  
and so that's why i went ahead and got one  
it was a mistake  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
i know how that goes  
and that's exactly what we've i mean   i have to say i have been thankful for them because there were times when   it was just like that   when we had to have the money  
we had no way around it  
and the only way to do it is go get you know an advance   on a card  
and so like you were paying for it  
but   it's one of those i'm glad it was there  
oh i see  
oh  
what  
do you find now though that even some doctors won't  
i've found some doctors that say you know  
i was so used to doctors or medical care places taking credit cards  
and so many of them don't anymore  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh it is  
i know  
right  
but you know the interest even though it bothered me it didn't used to bother me so much because of course you could list it on a schedule a  
and you got all your interest you know   towards your tax   deductions  
and now they've messed that up to where it really is a financial burden to have to pay it  
and but it but it is easy to get into a credit card problem  
and i i think about young people that think you know  
there's kind of that feeling of hey it's so neat  
i have my first credit card  
and and they just don't understand that you still have to be able to make the payments  
you know  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
right  
right  
no  
and that's frightening to me  
that's right  
that's frightening too  
uh i i just i my husband is in business for himself  
i work for t i  
but he doesn't  
and uh we're uh i i've kind of got my fingers crossed  
i've learned when you're in business for yourself that that you don't count on something until it's happened   you know  
but he's got some you know it's those once in a lifetime cases  
and after ten years he's got two of them  
and they should pay through next month  
and and we're both just looking at each other every night going man that will pay off like both of our mastercards you know  
and you know just in one lump  
because that's the only way you can do it is to have a big chunk of money  
or it's like you say  
you pay forever  
and so i'm really looking forward to that  
that's right  
right  
sure  
yeah  
i agree  
that's right  
i know  
and  
i know  
you're like   what am i working for today  
it's incredible  
boy i wish i could say that my house and  
well my car is paid for now  
it was wrecked three weeks ago  
but but you see again   the credit cards came in handy  
i had to have the money to pay rental car pay this pay that till the insurance company pays back  
and uh  
yeah  
because you know that's coming back to pay it off  
right  
it's  
sure  
that's right  
that's right  
well the smart half was don't pay it for [consumables]  
don't you know if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and eat out and pay cash don't put it on a credit card   you know  
and and so that that is the smart half  
but uh and i can remember before we had kids we did that a lot  
but it was no biggie   you know because we could pay it off  
while after kids and you're paying child care and other things all of a sudden it's not so easy to pay off  
so we cut that out real quick  
and uh but i i do like having them there  
there is a bit of security in having the credit cards and knowing that in times of crisis they are there to use  
but you have to have a very good sense of saving and or   common sense not not to   get yourself in trouble  
uh_huh  
basically uh my husband and myself use the credit cards in regards to major purchases  
we really don't get into small little purchases  
if we're going to purchase something quite large we might put it on a credit card  
but other than that it's not something that we use a lot of  
uh we may have only two or three versus uh i know a lot of people have up to a half a dozen or uh up to a dozen credit cards  
but uh ours are just major credit cards that we have and uh use uh use only when when we feel it's necessary to make a big purchase  
yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
one sears  
sears is pretty major with us simply because we do uh   appliances and things like that  
and they're real good with their appliance and stuff like that  
so  
but uh we try to avoid them with a passion because of the percent of interest rate  
if you've got the cash to pay for something it's better to do it that way than versus credit cards unless it's a small enough sum that you can do it within a two three month period  
but   if it's uh any large purchases uh you've got to kind of think about uh how much you're going to put down as far as uh payments on it so that you're not getting eighteen percent or   twenty percent interest taken off  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
so you know  
sure  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
or if it's a business transaction   a lot of times that's important too   to keep a better receipt of it  
so yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh sure  
for the month or whatever  
yeah  
exactly  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
oh yeah  
and you always get these preapproved uh credit card things coming through uh  
your credit is great  
so let's send you another credit card  
or   it's preapproved for  
that's that's to [entice] you to get more credit cards  
yeah  
and so you know we always laugh about that because it's quite a bit  
i mean you know you always constantly getting those preapproved stuff  
so  
uh ours is through a bank yeah  
we had it a long time ago through a bank  
and it just a  
but  
oh you're already paying them uh if you're if you don't pay it off within that month interest anyway  
so yeah  
that's exactly it  
so  
okay  
okay  
all right  
thanks a lot  
bye now  
yeah  
is that like visa and   and mastercard  
do you have department store credit cards too  
or  
uh_huh  
appliances  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
my my husband and i do basically the same thing  
but we we end up [sneaking] a few in there that surprise us  
we still pay it off every month   if it kills us  
but we do it mainly for you know the cash flow  
what is that oh float  
that's the word float  
and i often will keep track of what i've charged and sometimes deduct it from my checkbook   already  
and sometimes just  
and keep a list and make sure i   i don't go over a certain limit   especially around birthdays you know  
oh  
if we go out to a restaurant oh just to float it  
or i don't know  
yeah  
yes  
my husband has a a  
or anytime like a plane ticket or you know  
even if we have the  
i'm sure we'd have the cash before we got it  
but   the float   for more than a hundred dollars seems real nice for that   that thirty days   or whatever  
we have a new one from a t and t  
and we have you know haven't used that one too much  
be interesting  
that's nice because you can use it for a calling card also  
it's a mastercard too  
so  
it's kind of fun uh  
but you get a lot of junk mail about them  
yeah  
you're such a   a wonderful person  
we'll give you five thousand dollars   up front  
right  
do you have uh an annual fee on yours  
or do you get yours through a bank  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can't see paying an annual fee for it  
i mean i almost  
yeah  
well it sounds like i'm being [paged] otherwise  
so  
good talking to you  
hello  
hello  
hi  
boy  
it took forever to find somebody  
good  
well i'm my name's gail  
and i guess we have to   talk about credit cards  
okay  
well if you're ready then uh  
okay  
i'll press one  
okay  
well i'm not  
this is kind of an interesting subject to come up for me because credit cards are my downfall  
i just find it so easy to to charge something when i don't have the money to pay for it  
and i'm really trying to get out of that habit  
so i think they're kind of dangerous  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
seems just like our society is so um pushes so hard for you can have it you know and then no interest no payments for a year and stuff like this  
they're really trying to get you into that situation because they know they've really got you   then  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's funny that we've got a sears card and we bought a washer and dryer on it four years ago and we still owe  
i mean i i think like half the amount that they cost in the first place  
it's just uh you know you never never get it out  
and now that's real irritating  
uh_huh  
well we did you know  
one time we wanted to buy a truck a used truck  
and so we went down to the bank  
and they said sure we'll give you a personal loan  
it was only a thousand dollars that we needed   for the truck  
and they said sure that's no problem but you know why don't we consolidate your bills  
and at the time we thought oh that would be great you know we could  
and it's going to be a lower payment than it was for all of them  
you only have to write one check a month not all those  
you never miss one or whatever  
and we did that  
but we didn't realize at the time until several months later that we we were real  
i mean this was four three years ago  
we were pretty young  
and we were just kind of like  
well i guess that means these credit cards are closed  
and we didn't you know  
about six months later we realized we could use them  
and so we charged them all up again  
yeah  
so then we were not only paying those bills regular like we were before but also adding the lower payment for all of them  
so we were paying like twice  
um so we didn't ever make that mistake again luckily  
but uh we're definitely working on not doing that credit thing  
we just  
as a matter of fact this it's real interesting the subjects i get  
they always seem to be so [pertinent]  
but we just discussed this last night at church talking about debt and things like that  
it's so so [alluring] and   uh so easy to get  
uh sometimes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
oh i just picked up my daughter  
and she was eating a [cupcake] and now her crumbs all over  
yeah  
what a mess you are  
oh so i don't know if i if i i just feel kind of  
my big thing was my husband really wanted to get rid of our visa card  
and i just thought you know if we ever had something go wrong with our refrigerator or something you know   and we had to had to buy one then we would really need that  
and so he said okay we'll keep it  
and then we weren't smart enough to not use it  
so  
hello  
hello  
oh well i'm glad you found me  
yes  
my name is carolyn  
okay  
i'll just let you start  
i think they are too  
and unfortunately um we use ours in we don't use them all the time  
but we use them like at christmas time  
and then it seems like it takes all year to pay them off when you use them like that  
but um i would love to just take some [scissors] and cut them in half  
i think sometimes when you look at the interest that you're paying on them um that's what gets to be the really scary part you know if you think when it comes around to income tax time and you look at how much money you paid out just in interest all year  
you could really get a lot more stuff   if you were just able to pay outright for it  
that's right   yeah  
all i know is some of my credit cards  
like um we have a sears one  
and we always get a maintenance agreement every year  
and it's just easier to say you know just put that on my credit card  
well that's probably four or five hundred dollars you know that goes on at that point  
and then it seems like takes forever to pay that off  
wow  
it sure is  
we eventually did  
one time we just borrowed took a personal loan and paid off all our credit cards  
and the interest on the loan was cheaper   than it was you know to just have that  
we haven't done it lately  
we probably need to do it again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
i know  
they really encourage you not to go into debt for anything except for maybe your house and   your car  
and uh if you could stick to that you know we'd get rid of a lot of [indigestion] and   everything else  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
you know one thing you might do with in a situation like that though it's just like keep  
um i do  
what what do you think about them  
yeah  
definitely  
i have one right now  
and um i just got it about eight six months ago  
and i find that it makes it a lot easier to get things that you generally wouldn't get  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
really  
that's good  

yeah  
i i made a rule with myself when i got one that if i couldn't pay it in full every month that i'd have to rip it up  
so  
that's  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
i have i have a couple friends too that have about three of them maxed out  
and they   they can't do anything but work to try to pay them off  
and and and like one of my friends she has hers is up to nine hundred dollars  
and she she only earns like two hundred dollars a month because she's going to school  
and and so i mean that's just enough to pay rent and buy like thirty five dollars worth of food a month so and and pay for her like like monthly fee like  
i guess you have to pay like twenty dollars each month is the  
so all she's paying is interest on hers every month  
it just seems crazy to to me  
but  
yeah  
oh really  
was a visa card  
oh my goodness  
i bet  
yeah  
i i don't know  
i'm about sick of mine right now  
i don't  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
my parents are really good about not using credit cards  
they are against it  
i don't think they like the fact that i have one either  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
i'm i'm twenty right now  
so just going to school and and working  
so  
it does kind of get in the  
when you want something that  
like last weekend was homecoming  
and i needed   a pair of shoes  
so i just went out and bought them and   on my credit card  
i didn't really have the money to do it  
but  
yeah  
it sure is  
so do you just have two kids  
or  
oh really  
neat  
i'm from plano texas  
but right now i'm out in provo utah going to b y u  
so  
yep  
but this is a extra long one  
they're giving us a lot of time  
yeah  
have you done a lot of this  
oh really  
do you do it every day  

so do you have an opinion on credit cards  
you do  
i think they get a lot of people in trouble  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then you don't stop to realize that you know  
you charge this for twenty charge that for twenty charge this for twenty  
and pretty soon you owe a hundred dollars  
and you don't stop to think about it  
i got in trouble when i was in the service quite a few years ago like ten to fifteen thousand dollars in trouble  
and then you know so i eventually got it all paid  
now i carry one  
i have a gas card and a visa card  
and i never use them unless i need to  
so   but they  
yeah  
that's a good idea   stops all them interest rates  
and interest rates aren't none too shallow these days anyway  
but i know a lot of people that get in trouble with them especially you know  
we have  
i'm in lubbock  
and we have a bunch of college kids around here going to tech  
and they seem to get in trouble with them a lot  
yeah  
gee  
yes  
something like that  
yeah  
well my wife got in trouble one time with hers  
she was making like i don't know what she was making forty five dollars a month i think  
and fifteen dollars of it was because she was over the limit  
and fifteen dollars of it was interest  
so she was only paying in it fifteen dollars a month  
so and that was before we got married  
so  
but it's  
you know we sat down and talked about it and discussed it  
and it's it's come out pretty good  
now we have a eighteen year old that's fixing to get out of high school and go to college  
that's the first thing he wanted  
yeah  
so we kind of discussed that a little bit and shot that idea down right quick  
you know so  
but i think they're too readily accessible  
and there's too many companies out there that are willing to give them to you and get you get you trapped  
i mean you can always file bankruptcy to get out of it  
but that's a lot of pain and hassle  
when you know in the [olden] days when my parents were growing up and we couldn't afford everything we didn't have such things as credit cards  
we just waited until time come around that we could afford it  
and you know we had all the necessities  
so and i very seldom use a credit card on necessities  
i always use it for something i want not something i need  
so  
yeah  
i think if card cards were as as stringent as say a a home mortgage loan or something like that where you have to you know be able to prove that you can afford this and the rest of your bills we probably wouldn't have the problems we have  
of course we wouldn't have the [retail] market we have either  
so i guess they trade one for the other  
i disagree with it  
but they still trade one for the other  
well that's good  
i'm  
it sounds like you kind of got your head together in the credit department for  
you sound pretty young  
so  
are you  
yeah  
all right  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty easy  
uh we have a eighteen year old seventeen year old and a seven year old  
yeah  
oh are you  
are you a you're a mormon then  
oh all right  
what's that  
oh yeah  
they may not they must not have too much traffic on saturdays  
uh fifteen or twenty i guess  
oh yeah  
i try to every day  
i uh i get calls at work  
i get calls at home  
so  
doug you want to start  
you don't use any credit cards i don't imagine  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you use them a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well that's an idea  
that's a thought  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
my husband loves them  
uh we do use them  
uh we try not to  
but he he's one who believes in credit cards  
and he uses them quite a bit  
he likes using them and then just pay at the end of the month  
he he likes that  
uh_huh  
and that's when you get into expenses  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well sometimes you do come on bargains and that  
and it's really useful  
and some places won't take you know like personal checks or cash even  
but they would take a credit card  
uh_huh  
right  
we  
yeah  
we have the same thing up here  
so we don't deal where they do that  
we you know we go to places where they don't charge extra  
some of them charge five cents a gallon even  
like the gas stations more  
and uh we just try to avoid you know the ones that do that  
we just don't uh go there   because there's enough other ones around that don't charge you anything  
extra   because actually to me credit cards are the same as cash  
to me they are anyway  
right  
right  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
right  
well i can't say we never have  
now we have you know at times made payments   on our things  
but we try not to  
we try hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because sometimes uh there's times when you may maybe couldn't take advantage of something  
but with a credit card you can  
so  
uh  
well i think we're [narrowing] it down actually  
uh uh like i said my husband likes them  
and we have quite a few  
but we really get when you get down to the nitty gritty there's probably three that we use   most of the time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
well it's not every week  
but you you do get them  
they make it very readily available  
almost too much so  
but i i really don't like it the charges that you know  
we try to limit look at that also  
what they charge per year   to use our money you know  
they're charging us to spend our money  
and i i'm not real crazy about that  
so we try to look at that also  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
no  
of course i use   credit cards  
i have a couple of credit cards   and uh use them  
oh we try not to  
we're on a pretty strict and tight budget  
we use the credit cards however when we're at a situation where we don't have either the cash or the checkbook handy  
or we use credit cards also if we want to get an extended warranty on an item that we're purchasing  
so   so yes  
and basically we use it mainly when we're traveling   or out of state or   or somewhere where you know they don't take local they don't take out of state checks  
and so when we're traveling some  
do you use credit cards often  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well   that's that's a good thing because lot of people don't pay at the end of the month  
and they just pay the minimum required balance  
yes  
and you get in over your head  
it'll uh  
some people i know also try to use it as float   where they buy something now  
and say well i'm going to buy this when it's good and on sale  
and then i can   go ahead and pay for it when i get my check at the end of the month  
when i'm being paid  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
how how are the laws in pennsylvania uh as as regard well not the laws but the rates credit card rates in pennsylvania  
for example down here when you go up to a gas station   you get an extra charge for credit cards   than you would by paying for cash  
are they the same there  
that's pretty steep  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
because you make the deduction at the time of the purchase  
and and so that   the end of the month or when you get your credit card bill   are you saying that that way you're not left stranded   and high and dry  
very good  
you're you're one of the good i guess good faithful [shoppers] that don't get into a problem when it comes to budgeting their money  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
well i see that as an advantage to a credit card also  
that you can   can find yourselves in those situations and use a credit card to   to help yourself  
so i think that there's a great advantage to a credit card in those situations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um do you have uh multiple credit cards  
and do you find that advantageous  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
we're we're actually in the same boat  
we like to use three uh basic credit cards  
that way we're not confused  
and we don't have an awful lot of expenses or surprises when it comes   the end of the month  
and do you find that you get an awful lot of credit card applications through the mail  
once a week  
twice a week  
or three times a week  
yeah  
right  
so the annual fee  
right  
right  
yes  
so there is the basic annual fee for the credit card   plus they charge any where from seventeen to twenty three percent   uh based upon what the state will allow  
um i think i'm down to one  
well no  
i was pulling your leg  
i i well  
the way i'd like to try and use it is um you you you make your purchases at at prime buying time  
and then you pay that off and don't use it until uh it's paid off  
that's that's my ideal way  
emergencies come along  
and i   and i use it  
uh like uh my car uh had a major problem and   seven hundred dollars  
and   uh things just come up  
and you just never get to use it the way you'd really like to  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i know i was up in there and a lot of credit cards  
and i was just starting to get to where it was getting me in trouble  
so we just disposed of them paid them off and   got out of it  
i just  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well now we pretty much just pay cash for   as much as we can there  
our our only credit card is sears  
so   and i have that for automotive purposes  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's just too easy basically uh just get yourself in trouble with those  
i see  
yeah  
uh i wouldn't mind uh you know getting back into one if they would you know  
you start out at a low limit  
and then they just keep wanting you to increase your limit  
and and if i can get one that'll keep my limit at five hundred   and i can never go over that or something   like that then that's fine  
but they  
eventually get's up there to five thousand ten thousand whatever   fifty thousand  
forget it  
i don't want that  
yeah  
so i don't know  
just uh  
writing checks is just as easy i guess  
yeah  
well really  
what what can you  
other than you use them or you don't use them  
you like them  
or you don't like them  
so  
i guess uh they don't care if we end it early  
so uh hopefully uh you have a good thanksgiving  
that's coming up  
and   and then uh maybe we'll talk again  
yeah  
texas is the big one  
okay then  
well bye now  
so how many um credit cards do you have  
oh my gosh  
i wish i was that way  
is that why you said i had more experience than you  
oh  
well how how do you use your credit card  
i mean do you just keep it in reserve  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how how do you use it  
yeah  
that's understandable exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well actually i do have quite a few more credit cards than you have  
um and i use them you know  
like my american express i use for you know gas things like that  
and i pay that off monthly  
and then um some other credit cards like store credit cards you know i do have them up there a little bit  
but uh  
i try not to use them too often  
but living in this area uh like i live fifteen miles west of washington d c  
it's a very expensive area  
so sometimes you have no other choice if you need to buy something  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that was good that you had the opportunity to do that  
uh_huh  
now are you married that you both you and your wife use a credit card  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
right  
right  
well well that's great  
um everyone i know here uses um credit cards like they're going out of business   to be honest with you  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the only other one i have  
i have like a [diner's] club through my um where i work  
so that i use because i travel some  
so i use that  
and i don't really have to worry about that because i only use it for business  
so i automatically have the money to pay it off  
but um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um the [temptation's] too great  
um  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
but so i guess uh we've kind of exhausted this uh topic  
yeah  
you can't say too much about it really  
uh_huh  
okay  
you too  
yeah  
may be  
you're the furthest person actually that i've talked  
i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
okay  
bye bye  
laurie  
okay  
i'm supposed to ask you how do you make use of your credit cards  
and i'm supposed to compare those with my my habits  
yes  
right  
no  
i do not  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
sure  
well myself i always  
i'm i'm a traveling person  
and i'm out of town quite a bit  
so i use credit cards quite a lot also as far as everything from service work and gasoline in my car to my [lounging] entertainment and for everything  
so that's uh  
as far as using them outside that i'm not i don't use them too much  
but i i think my wife is sort of like you  
she uses a credit card   most of the time  
so she does most of the shopping for our household  
so she'll use them more than i will  
yes  
so it's me i'm always i'm the guy that always goes to like dillard's  
and i'll go in and charge something  
and i'll have to give them my driver's license  
they'll have to look up the number because i'm never carrying a credit card  
but i do carry like my american express and my visa which i use for you know primarily work type things  
this is my first call by the way  
so  
oh is it really  
all right  
so we're both [beginners] then  
i've had this for a couple weeks  
and i've been out of town  
so this is my first time to   to use it  
so  
no  
i was given this topic  
yeah  
they give you they assign you a topic  
you call the eight hundred number  
have you tried it yet  
okay  
when you call the eight hundred number they assign you a topic and uh pretty uh cut and dried  
i'm not sure  
a couple  
about two three minutes i think  
but i really don't have too much more to say in regards to credit cards  
i  
one thing i've always tried to do is when i get my credit cards i always try to pay them off because i just sort of [detest] paying interest  
and uh  
like years ago my wife and i got married  
she was the one with a little bit than i was because i had my credit cards i think up to the limit  
and i was giving everyone ten dollars a month and everything like that  
that was like thirty years ago  
so now it's a little different  
we  
i get a bill  
and i'll pay it the same day it comes  
in   or at least i try to  
and i just kind of tell my kids how much i hate paying interest  
so they should follow the same rule  
oh you bet it's  
it's an absolute savings  
you bet  
that's that's very handy  
well i think that's all i have  
nice to meet you  
and uh give it a try  
i think you'll enjoy it  
okay  
thank you  
bye  
yes  
okay  
how do i make use of credit cards  
um let's see  
i carry a lot of credit cards with me mostly because i don't ever have cash  
and i i  
do you work for texas instruments  
okay  
well at t i we have to use what's called a tex teller   if we want to get cash out  
and those are only available at t i  
so if i'm in a mall or something i can't get cash out without paying extra money  
so i'm always using credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but do you get to pay the bills  
same at my house  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh it's mine too  
yes  
yeah  
oh okay  
okay  
now did you pick this topic  
or were you given  
i see  
okay  
right  
no  
huh  
okay  
um let's see  
so how long are we supposed to talk for  
okay  
oh yes  
definitely  
uh_huh  
oh  
that will cost you a fortune  
yes  
yes  
that's right  
well yeah  
if you pay it that way it i mean it really is it's like getting a free loan for a while   which is what i do  
or if you travel for work and you get your reimbursement before the bill comes in   you get to keep the money  
yeah  
it works great  
okay  
well it was nice to meet you  
okay  
thanks  
bye bye  
where are you bob  
oh okay  
i am in waco  
yeah  
right down the street  
oh credit cards  
my favorite subject  
oh do i  
yeah  
mostly over christmas  
uh i get in a [rut] with credit cards cause they get me kind of in a vicious cycle where you use them a lot one month and then you have to use whatever money you have to pay those off  
and so then you have no money  
so you use a credit card  
yeah  
uh i probably have one of every credit card there is  
do you use them a lot  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that is a good idea  
is that   that through a visa  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is my problem  
i don't try and pay them off  
i pay like the minimum  
i know  
so i have got myself  
exactly  
i have got that is why i have got myself with all this trouble now  
but i pay most of them on time and everything  
it is just the  
i always have them  
so it is kind of strange  
oh yeah  
exactly like the government  
in   in debt  
yeah  
have they put the cap on the interest rates  
i didn't know if they actually did that or not  
i know they were considering it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
funny how that works isn't it  
i would be interested to find out how many people or how much uh people use credit this year say in nineteen ninety two as opposed to nineteen ninety one even nineteen ninety  
i think i think it would be amazing how much how many more people use it  
because of the economy  
yeah  
exactly  
i would be very i would like to see some numbers on that  
i think that would be interesting  
yeah  
i have a credit union  
yeah  
they do  
uh_huh  
yes  
i do  
yes  
i do a matter of fact  
uh i work for channel six  
it's it's an n b c affiliate down here  
oh really  
oh okay  
where do you work  
what is your  
oh okay  
oh okay  
so you probably work with uh uh  
what is the boy from here  
you ever work with davis  
davis iron work  
yeah  
oh okay  
and uh what else  
well i live actually in hewett  
yeah  
right outside  
so that is where davis iron works is  
uh  
i don't think i have seen that one  
i am sure i pass by it or something  
but i am not sure  
huh prime air  
oh okay  
okay  
have you ever been to marlin  
i think it is marlin or mart  
they have uh uh a place i guess that would be similar to prime air  
it is called h g h   or something like k g h or  
i can't think of it  
i can't think of the name  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i don't like that drive  
i make that drive sometimes  
we have stories out there  
but uh  
huh  
oh really  
i know  
oh goodness  
they they are bad at hewett too on eighty four  
they are real bad  
that is where i got my last ticket  
so of course i couldn't pay that on a credit card  
i am in plano  
where are you  
is that right  
oh okay  
you mean you use credit cards  
i bet you used them all up over christmas  
and then your are in debt  
i understand that  
well uh it kind of comes and goes uh  
i use uh [citibank] the uh advantage one   pretty much cause you get vantage points for every dollar you spend  
once a year i get a free airplane ride that way  
so as long as you pay it off every month it doesn't cost you anything  
that is what i  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh i got all sorts of credit cards for my business that i use  
but uh   if i can get away with paying them off every month it is alright  
if i don't then it gets expensive  
well you shouldn't do that  
you never you never get out of the hole that way  
kind of like the federal government right  
can't never get out of debt  
and every time you try to get out of debt the economy goes to pot because people are spending money right  
no  
just the people who don't need credit get the four and a half percent  
the rest of the uh and me we have got to pay fourteen and eighteen percent  
the [thou] who doesn't need credit gets cheap credit  
well i think so  
because the  
that's right  
you have got to use everything you have got just to stay where you are at  
do you do you have any uh credit union where you work or anything like that  
do they have a mastercard or visa card  
you have got that one  
who who do you work for  
oh  
i do a lot of work down in waco  
a   lot of i call on a lot of my business is down there  
i sell metal fabricating equipment and tooling  
[tyme] and mercury and [tempco] and all those people   down there  
uh gene  
davis iron  
yeah  
matter of fact i just saw them last week  
are you in that part are you in the south part of town now  
oh yeah  
okay  
you know   do you know parker machine tool down there  
bobby parker and uh  
there is a place in hewett called  
it is a new company called prime air  
that is in hewett just around the corner from davis iron works  
they make uh [humidifiers] and   uh filters for air [filtration] stuff for   hospitals homes something like that  
uh yeah  
oh really  
huh  
huh  
i will have to stop in there  
i went i have gone through there uh  
my oldest son goes to a and m  
he is working on his master's  
the navy sent him there for his master's mostly in engineering  
so once and a while we go up six there rather than take forty five  
that is about the last time i have been through marlin and mart  
there is always a state trooper down there  
you have got to drive careful  
between mart and marlin they will nail you if you go over sixty miles an hour  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
yeah  
they seem to be a part of life  
yeah  
how do you use them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i use a few  
i uh i watched my grandmother go into debt   on them  
and so i've  
and then i guess my   mother  
yeah  
so my mother learned from that  
and i guess she taught me to be very very careful with them  
so basically uh i just keep them  
i use them so that i build up a credit rating you know  
but otherwise uh i generally  
and my husband it turns out  
i've just been married seven months  
but he has the same habit  
and we just keep a few   you know few of the major ones and then use them once in a while for something  
but we always pay it off right that month   so that we don't pay any   service charge  
so that way we keep out of debt  
and we keep on top of what we're spending  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what i feel  
so  
uh_huh  
it's really easy just to forget you know that you you charged that or charged that  
i try to keep all my receipts and keep them in someplace where i know that the [bill's] going to come  
but sometimes i forget  
and so you know a bill will come in  
and i'll think oh no   i didn't know it was going to be that high  
but so far i've been able to we've been able to pay it off every time  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
have you ever used discover card  
yeah  
i'm not even sure what their interest rate is since i pay it off  
but you know  
uh i think sears originally   put it out  
but it's uh it's pretty well taken all over the u s now  
i mean uh i've haven't found many places that don't take discover  
and there's no annual service fee which is good  
you know and then uh they also give you they say cash back uh like at the end of the year  
for the amount that i charge i get two dollars back or something  
but if you use credit cards a lot you probably get more back  
yeah  
basically  
that's it  
and i think the service charge is pretty low too  
but i'm not sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it's best to keep the number down   that you have  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   do you have anything else to say  
okay  
i don't think i do either  
so  
well it was good talking to you  
okay  
have a good evening  
bye bye  
well i suppose we both have credit cards  
yeah  
well i do use them  
uh i have a few favorites that i use more than others  
and uh i try to keep my balances fairly reasonable  
i i could probably pay them off any month if i wanted to  
uh but occasionally they can get out of hand and get higher when when you start using more than a few  
and uh they all can build up  
uh i think they're handy  
i just get uh  
i don't carry a lot of cash with me  
and uh i hate writing checks   when you go shopping  
well do you use credit cards  
uh_huh  
grandmother  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's good  
oh that's   that's wonderful  
well the interest rates in credit cards is so high now   compared to what you're savings is bringing  
it's really i guess ridiculous to let them keep building  
but i know some people can get get you know carried away with them and let them get   out of hand  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's good  
i'm looking right now i'm kind of looking for a visa that has a lower interest rate  
it seems that some of them have gotten higher  
and uh i saw on t v they had a program on uh credit cards  
and they're supposed to  
i don't know if it was tennessee or arkansas or some some other state had a visa card that was the lowest one in the country  
and i   didn't write it down at the time  
and then i went and looked and to see what my visa was  
and i think it's eighteen percent or something  
so think i want to find something that has a lower   rate  
no  
i haven't  
is that the one from sears  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh they give you money back for using your credit card  
oh  
i didn't know that  
um well you know sears was one of the few department stores that never would take any other credit cards  
i worked at sears for over ten years  
and uh it was only a sears card that they would take   until i guess they decided to join the club and come up with their own credit card another credit card that was   accepted  
so you know now they'll take the discover  
but i still don't know if sears will take visa or mastercard  
but uh   i never did apply for a discover card  
i just figure with the visa and   american express i probably have an  
i can do enough damage with those two  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've got some that i you know i haven't even used at all uh past few years  
i probably wouldn't be able to use them  
but uh i i do like my dillard's  
i have to admit that's one of my favorite places to shop  
and i do use dillard's probably as more than any of the other department stores  
but  
well  
no  
not too much more about credit cards  
okay  
well  
good talking to you beth  
good luck  
you too  
bye  
well credit cards  
i'll tell you what i i can't say a whole lot about credit cards because i uh tore mine up  
yeah  
uh i got in some problems with uh financial problems because of credit cards  
so i uh basically just got rid of all of them  
i i have a a couple  
i have a uh gas card that i that i use just for gas and   you know uh one that i use just for emergencies  
but  
yeah  
i know it  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
that's a that's a good policy  
yeah  
yeah  
uh sometimes i wish i had them  
but in most cases i'm glad i don't   because i you know unfortunately i i i don't have the control you have  
i wish i did  
but   but i don't  
uh and it you know it  
i just don't want to get into that situation again  
so   we'll  
oh that's it  
see and that's  
even with my gas card   you know i find that i'll go in to get some gas  
and i'll end up buying you know candy and drinks and   you know sweets and whatever  
and then at the end of the month i you know i get a bill  
and i'm thinking   what did i get   that costs so much  
and  
yeah  
that that's true  
but i can i can certainly understand where  
you know  
oh yeah  
isn't it  
that's unbelievable  
how  
let me ask you this  
how how old are you  
thirty three  
okay  
you'll be thirty three this year  
you want to be thirty two as long as you can huh  
it's coming  
yeah  
i i know what you mean about the interest rates it's uh it's unbelievable  
uh_huh  
oh jeez  
yeah  
and then you bet  
that's  
uh yeah  
i in fact i've i've even uh heard some people that have applied for credit cards with much less uh   rates   and have paid off their you know   higher interest rate uh   cards and just sent them back you know  
and i i guess there's some there's uh uh some [negotiating] there too  
because i heard uh  
on one of the local talk shows here they had somebody on and and said what you can do is uh call you know  
if you've got a pretty good rating uh credit rating   you can call your you know your your card wherever you got your card from and tell them hey either drop my rates   or drop my you know uh   annual fees or i'll just go to somewhere else  
you know and if you've got if you've got a pretty good   uh uh history with them   they're more than willing to do that  
yeah  
in fact that's that's what this guy  
you know he wrote a book on it  
and he says that's you know he's tried it with several of his cards  
and he's just told them you know i i can get this card from this bank at this rate  
and yours is at you know eighteen or nineteen percent  
it does not make sense for me to do that  
and if you won't drop my rates i'll just go ahead and send you back your card  
and i'll go somewhere else and get it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is that right  
i i know i know some other people that have done that  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i have we have some some friends that did the exactly the same thing  
they uh you know they kind of overextended and borrowed and borrowed  
and finally they realized that they were they were abusing them and weren't going to get out of the hole  
and they just cut them all up except for for one they kept for emergencies  
and   they're still paying away to get out of debt  
but no  
i did just the opposite  
i i guess i i sort of followed in my uh parents' [footsteps]  
i have quite a few of them  
i   use them continually  
but i uh i basically never charge anything i don't have the money in the bank to pay for  
and uh and i always pay them off totally every month  
yeah  
yeah  
and it you know i mean they they're just a convenience for me  
i don't have to get cash out of the bank  
and i don't have to to be writing checks  
and   and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean it it's easy  
i mean you don't have anything [transferring] just a little signature  
so what you know  
uh_huh  
right  
surprising  
yeah  
well you know but the  
i mean there are sort some inherent limits there  
you're not going to you're not going to run up a few thousand dollars for that  
right  
now i  

the thing that probably helps me most doing that is really you know uh not so much discipline  
i mean well i mean you have sort of a discipline in general about finances  
but but i hate their their rates so badly i mean   their interest rates so badly   that i  
i'm uh thirty three  
thirty two  
excuse me  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you know i just that just irritates me so much that that i refuse to pay them interest  
and and my wife recently uh decided she had to go to brazil and was going to take off  
and she's from there and   and uh didn't really have the money  
but you know she could pay it off  
and so i   sort of reluctantly let her put it on credit cards  
but she's paying it  
and uh i just won't do it  
i mean she's paying i don't know i don't know what per month you know forty fifty dollars per month in interest  
and i just   you know i just refuse to give it to them  
if i need to borrow that kind of money i'll go to the bank  
and uh  
you know  
income  
oh yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
high  
i might  
um  
right  
um i might try that because i i have one card that i've had for about uh i don't know nine or ten years  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
for me the big thing you know is the uh uh is the annual fee  
and i just refuse  
i won't get any card now  
i've i've got a good rating  
and i've got you know  
and i'm not going i'm not going to pay an annual fee  
the only one i actually pay on is this one that i that the very first  
i pushed it  
so how do you use your credit cards  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's me  
i won't use one that i have to pay an annual fee  
you know and um i'm uh like you i i use it well to buy my gas with  
my my shell credit card i use that  
and then like my [emporium] card and uh [weinstocks] card i use that  
but i'm like you  
i usually pay it off as soon as i get my bill  
why i don't just write a check i don't know  
you know it's just really weird  
but i i don't carry a lot of cash with me because i'm   always afraid that someone's going to steal my purse  
yeah  
you know enough for a phone call  
and that's about all  
but uh other than that that's the that's the way i use them  
i know some people that uses them so bad that every one of them that they've got they they can't charge any more   you know  
and i think that's terrible  
oh yeah  
yeah  
because if anything ever happens that you do need to you know you have excellent credit  
why it really does help  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think it's better to use credit cards too like i say because there's so many people around any more that's watching what you're doing  
and if you pull a [wad] of money out of your pocket they're going to hit you over the head  
i know  
it just uh you know it just seems like they're somebody's always watching  
so i just don't i don't carry money  
i'd just soon use my credit cards and   just pay them off you know  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
and you know some of those stores don't even seem to check your signature or anything   you know  
i don't know why they don't unless you have to spend a certain  
i don't know  
but i notice that some of them don't even look you know  
they just slide it in there and pass it back to you   you know  
so i don't think that's right  
i think they should check it to make sure that the signature at least matches you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well let's see  
what else can i say about credit cards  
um  
yeah  
i don't i don't uh  
that that's that sears discovery card  
is that what that  
yeah  
now i don't have that one you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you mean uh for for your using your credit card you get like a rebate or something  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
um i see  
yeah  
well i'll  
okay  
oh we use them for   paying our gas and for paying uh just about anything because um we don't like to pay for our checks  
so we use it quite a bit  
but we we pay off every month though  
so we never have to pay interest  
and we always we never get the the credit cards if there's a monthly or a yearly charge  
we always get it through our bank or somewhere where it's free  
so we never have to pay anything extra  
yeah  
we just don't think it's worth it  
so  
see well you i don't do it either  
yeah  
yes  
exactly  
that's how i  
i mean it's a rare day when i even have seventy five cents in my purse  
yeah  
yeah  
because it's really it helps your if you have good credit you know it helps you in the long run when you want to go make a   bigger purchase or something  
yeah  
and i think it's more convenient too in a lot of cases  
like whenever we go on trips we always you know use our our visa or our mastercard or whatever  
and then um you know we really don't have to pay for it out of our own pockets until about a month later  
and so it helps us gain interest in the bank that when we do it  
we come out a even a little bit ahead because we've been able to use whatever first off and then pay   for it later  
oh yeah  
yeah  
even if it's five bucks even  
yeah  
and also if you if someone did happen to steal your credit card my husband was saying that if you know you notice it within i think it's twenty four hours you can report it in  
and i he said the most you'd ever have to pay is fifty dollars for them to cancel you know whatever payments you had  
and if   whoever tried to uh you know credit it to the [hilt] you'd only have to pay fifty dollars of it  
and then   you know you can have your card back with   pretty good rating you know because you can pay fifty dollars but not you know   maybe five thousand or whatever  
i know  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
sure  
i mean it's just a precaution for everybody  
yeah  
so  
um  
oh i also use like to use discover when i can because they give you some money back every year  
yeah  
yeah  
well we just started doing that  
and   you know what  
it comes in handy for when you're buying things like um tickets for the train or um airplanes   because they'll give you some money back you know  
and it's only a little bit  
but i mean it's still something  
we got two fifty last year  
and so it's you know it helps out here and there  
so  
yeah  
they give you i think they start giving you like a half a percent back which doesn't sound like a thing  
but when you you know when you add up everything you've you've charged up on the discover card for a year  
and they give you a half percent of that  
and that adds up to you know two fifty or something  
and so that's what  
and i know we're going to get back more this year because they you know we spent a little bit more   probably  
and they do it for how long you've been a member i think too  
and they increase the percentage a little bit  
okay
oh yes
and i believe we all do
and it's it's just too easy to use
oh i believe that uh mine would say the same uh but uh i seem too rely on them too much
um
it uh you know i seem to uh use those more than i do cash
in fact i'd rather carry the cards than i would the uh cash
uh yes
yes
that's real easy to do
i have to watch it in fact yeah
uh we i can understand that [predicament] um they they've um you know they've made them too easy and too accessible at everything to to buy
oh yes
and then plus then you for end up forgetting to write it down
oh uh_huh
oh that's good
oh yes
yes
uh and then then then that gets into a vicious circle as far as you know paying off the the loan that you just got from the credit card to pay off the other loan
oh no
um yeah
the a t m's they're but they're nice though to have in case you need to get some quick cash and everything is closed
oh that's the best way it's used that's the best way
yes
i think that sort of [evens] it out as far as uh letting them carry it so as long as they do buy us something
and see there's no [secrecy] to that because the bill always comes in and we know how much they pay for it
oh i have to open it you know they mine always charges the flowers so i can always end up saying oh you spent too much you know
and so yeah
oh those are fun
you get started on them and can't quit just exactly
oh it's it's real easy to get addicted to them you know you get out on a shopping frenzy and uh just charge it all
and then you don't have to write a check or anything
yeah
there is a a fear to it
as far as what happens if
yeah
oh yeah
that's
oh yeah
there's that's a weakness there
that's just you know you you always want to get your kids everything
and uh you don't care how much it costs or what it takes
uh_huh
yeah
that's uh
i always end up going into wal mart
and coming out with everything that uh i didn't have on the list
we're just getting more than what we went in for
uh_huh
oh yeah
it's dangerous
uh_huh
oh yeah
it's just too easy to do you go in for just one thing we're we're [infamous] about that
and so
oh well yeah
i well i'm i'm glad we have credit cards
that's uh because in
sometimes when there's an emergency it it comes in handy
it's nice to have
yeah
we've yeah
we've had uh a sick animal
and uh the vet you know the dog and [vet's] are so expensive that uh we uh the credit card helped us a lot there too
so we wouldn't do without them
huh_uh
no
no
i think it's become too much of an everyday life here they're a part of it
the balance
oh yes
uh_huh
so you know he can't spend too much
yes
uh_huh
i was i was just uh
oh well let's see
i guess we've talked what almost five minutes
oh i wish i had one of those
oh did you see there you go
oh your up in memphis
oh your in texas oh okay
i was going to go goodness
they really got uh this out far
yeah
yeah
i'm down in houston
oh okay
yeah
uh_huh
well oh this has been just great
this was the first one i had
uh_huh
my husband did one last night
and he just loved it
he's been getting he got a real good topic
and so well uh
yeah
i was just trying to think uh i think we've pretty much said it all yeah
so uh but yeah
uh_huh
i think we couldn't make it without them
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but uh we uh we try to keep uh uh tight controls over them
but it it gets hard like especially around christmas time and birthdays oh goodness
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
it gets rough
that's hard
get that cash advance uh_huh
yeah
it uh it
but see it does come in handy those they do
they're worth it
so well i i think we've pretty much come to an end here
i think it was at least five minutes wasn't it
okay
um do you have a credit card
i know i've got one i did have two
and the i found that um it just made me spend a little more so when i paid one of them off
i got rid of it
now i have two only have one
um i don't know
i always used to be the person that would put something on and pay the bill right out
and now i've at every christmas
it seems the last few [christmases] i used it for christmas
and i'm still paying it off
i don't know i consider myself pretty good
but sometimes i can go out and i can i can over [overspend] my budget
i guess i can afford it
but it is it's a pain paying it off
i don't i don't know um i had uh i have seven hundred dollars in mine now
and i've saved up enough money where i'm going to bring it down to two hundred and hopefully i can keep it around there
yeah
i know a lot of people have
i mean fifteen hundred dollars
two thousand dollars
but um i don't know
i never i never liked loans a lot
so i'm not a heavy credit card user
i have a girl friend that she probably has two thousand dollars on couple credit cards
so i know it's easy to do
especially if you if you have a job where you have to buy nice clothes and things
it it
i think that is the biggest problem when you really not
you don't don't really need the stuff
but the
nicer looking clothes are the more expensive
nicely tailored clothes even though you could probably get away with a cotton dress
you got to go out and buy the [rayon] dress
or something you know you got to be they say you have to dress for success
yeah
how many credit cards do you have
that's pretty good
yeah
my husband won't even put his name on it
i don't believe in those
it's like but the time we went to florida and needed to rent a car you know he believed in it
you've got to have a credit
card to rent a car
yep
that's up here at some if it's if you're not in your home town you have to show them a credit card
well actually if your check [bounces] i guess they could legally take it off your credit card
if that's why they're taking it
i mean i don't know how fair
that is
but i don't know um yeah
i guess that percentage rates are like eighteen percent
yeah
thirteen
that's not bad
yeah
then you have to pay your fee and american express you're really it's not a credit card because you have to pay it off
at the end of the month
but the fee for that
it's really expensive
isn't it
i've never had one
oh
that's good
yeah
if he they they they have you pay it right out every month
yeah
because it's uh
i know especially if your uh your reimbursement didn't come through
from your company because i know they i don't know why
but you can use american express
and they give you an [itemized] bill
you can use that i don't know why you can't use other credit cards for business that way
american express
yep
this is this is it actually kind a boring subject of credit cards you really
you just know some people abuse them
but not a joke about the person who pays their master card off with their visa
i bet you
there are people that do that
people get a cash advance on one credit card to pay the other
i think they charge more for cash advances so
yeah
you can't get cash advances oh
oh well no
uh it it think that's a really bad plan in your budgeting if you have to pay one card off with another oh eventually
no
it doesn't be solid for a couple of weeks then you get both bills back
i know credit cards almost seem unfair to a person who's who's got a victim of impulse buying
like unfair advertising or something
huh_uh
oh wow
and we used to lose four percent on the credit card orders yeah
it's it's the thing if if a business is taking a credit card they're they sacrificing something too
it seems the credit card company makes money all the way around
because it is a four percent that they take
three or four percent
i don't know which put you in better rating yep
because when i used to go to the bank
i used to take it off the deposit
yeah
you do have to take it off your deposit yeah
so it is a a service that they're offering i i know
should own stock
there instead of these uh banks going that are [folding] but i wonder how much is numbers how many billions of dollars
it's got to be billions of dollars
yeah
that's uh probably true
i mean you have the principal debt the car loan and your house loan
and then there's all the merchandise you buy on your credit cards
[sheesh] maybe they don't
yeah
i know i had a girl friend she just got married out of college
and the husband had [confiscate] her credit cards
i mean i don't know
it's probably they're always saying the women are doing are the spending ones
but i haven't heard uh a single woman taking their credit card away from the man
well i don't know
i i definitely want to get up mine paid off month to month
like i used to
and just as soon as i get it paid off
i'll probably get laid off
all right
i have some
do you
yes
me too
well i have uh we've got an american express which we got that on purpose
so we could pay that off every month
that way we we know our limit
but then i also have department stores
and um you know we keep a couple hundred dollars
um if that much charged on those which isn't too bad
it's just your normal
you know getting clothes and stuff
every once in awhile
exactly
uh_huh
right
yeah
right
just your visa yeah
yeah
i you know uh people always complain about american express saying not enough people take it
but i've i've rarely found a place that wouldn't
that wouldn't take it so that doesn't bother me
luckily
uh_huh
oh does it
sure
that's true
that's true
that's that's real nice to
that's true
uh_huh
paid back
i know
when we first got married we you know went and got all the credit cards and of course charged those puppies up and it's oh boy
when those bills start coming in
they want a lot of money when you sure kick them up there
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's good
uh_huh
that's good
i've noticed on the like the department stores they sure do hate it when you pay double payments
you know it's like whoa
wait a minute don't pay us too much you know
and they drop it your balance uh they drop your monthly payment down low
because they want that interest to build up
so that's what i normally try to do if it's pretty low i try to make a couple payments at a time
and get it down quicker
but they're easy to use
no
have you
uh_huh
i don't understand how they do that
right
but they say you can't be turned down and i don't understand how they can
uh_huh
oh
i see
sure
they've got your money already
well gosh
well that's darn easy then
i wouldn't turn you down either
i'll give you one
huh
no
i haven't attempted that i'm satisfied with what we have right now
and we do have a gas credit card
and we use that
uh_huh
right
that's true
that's true
well we uh my husband always usually always pays with cash
but i never seem to have cash
or at least not enough you know to fill a tank up
so i always almost always use my credit card on that on that
and then it's you do tend to pay more
for gas
but other than that it's it's a good deal
i think
yeah
i saw that
exactly
but they won't they won't charge
i saw that advertised too
that's a good deal
but it's real it's real convenient for me i i just like being able to go in and do that
and and it's like american express you have to pay it off at the end of the month
so it's not going to go up too high
so it's good for emergencies
that's what we do on
sure
we always use especially on trips you know we just charge all our gas that saves us spending it or [shelling] out the cash right then
uh_huh
right
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
i know
and
isn't that terrible
and save all that money
um well
do you think we've okay
well thanks for talking
[scarily] very very very seldom only in dire emergencies
in fact i leave them home
i have never uh i've used them
but never to the extent of getting in debt like uh some people do
it's just that since my money is tight right now i don't even give myself a tempting because i've gotten them all paid off
so now i just wait before i use it
but uh like i'll keep one minor one like sears in my purse just for identification purposes
because i won't use it period
i'll use uh visa
but otherwise huh_uh
never
never
uh_huh
check
very seldom would i even use cash
uh_huh
how about you
see that's exactly
i didn't get in debt
but what i did was one year
oh i can't remember when five six must be eight nine years ago when i paid my taxes
i realized that i had ran up so much on my credit card that i was paying interest that was ridiculous
i mean sure it was the tax write off
but there was no sense to it
i mean there was no sense at all to it
i was paying more interest on that card than the card was worth as far as i could tell
so at that point there
we just stepped right on you know just saving all the way in and i'll turn around like on my car
i'll borrow against my insurance which i pay five percent interest and buy my car that way
and that works
so i don't have to worry about it
but i use uh [override] at uh [texin] credit union so that i don't have to keep too much
i keep enough balance in my checking account
so that i don't have to pay you know a service charge
and then i
yeah
if i write a check real large it'll go ahead and pull it out of my savings account
so i don't have to you know worry about it
one way of the other
and i just keep that minimum balance in there
so it just you know
and i pretty much budget that way all the way around
but as i said my money's tight
right now
yeah
there's no charge for it
so i do it that way
but i do as i said i keep the credit card in my purse for identification when somebody wants identification one way of the other
but usually i won't put anything on that card unless it's something i really unbelievably need otherwise i'd better have it somewhere else because i'm like you
i'm not going to have a balance on that thing because it's too easy
i know too many people that pay off that well i've got this credit card
well maybe i'd better use that one or something like that
and i'm saying
huh_uh
not me
well it's like um the little piece of plastic for uh to get your money out or the credit union
all you have to do is put it in the machine one way or the other
and like i'll run down there like you know for vacation and things like that
and i'll leave it in there in savings account until last day and then i'll put the card in and pull it out what i want
but i'll pull it out of savings because i don't keep any balance in the checking but that's still that's easy enough as it is
but i wouldn't use the machine to pay fifty cents or a dollar for it
i won't even go that far
um
but i'm like you if there's something really that i wanted i'll write to them before i'll put the credit card call in
though i won't put it on the card unless i really i'll take write them uh check for it because it wastes too much time on the credit card
and i'm kind of i'm leery about things going on my card
because i've had you know had to go back and return something
and it took so long to get it off and that was years ago
so i'm having real good luck with a credit card
i mean it came off
there's no problem
but it just takes too much you know scares me
and like tom [thumb's] got uh credit card now they used for groceries
yeah
over here in in plano
uh_huh
and you can charge your groceries on it
and uh you can either charge your groceries on it
you have a choice or you can write a check
and they it that way
so you don't have to keep going and get it you know credit check and things like that
and they'll give you an extra twenty five dollars no charge or anything else like that
but i won't even put that on groceries
because hey what happens if the clerk marks in an extra number or something like that
and i don't check it
no thank you
i don't want anything going on my you know in my checking account unless it's i know about it
but do you like discover card
i hadn't heard too much about it
uh_huh
well credit cards
um i would think they are wonderful
but uh i think you have to have a lot of restraint
uh i have never been in trouble with credit cards
but uh my youngest daughter is
and a friend of mine is
and i think it is terrible that they can uh you know wipe out a max in uh such a short time
uh i never pay interest charges
i value my money too much to uh line somebody else's pockets with my money
and i always uh pay it off before uh i am charged any interest on my balance
never
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
you really have to show a lot of restraint
but if you look at
if you look at the time frame on that uh you will find that you have about six or seven weeks before you have to make that payment back to the credit card company
without being charged any interest
that is correct
yeah
you
uh_huh
your budget has to be so that you can uh you know [summarize] what your balance is going to be at a particular time
and i can do that that is right
well that is what the
you know
that is what that is what it is geared for advertisement you know is uh to [whet] you appetite and give you that
oh i've got to have that i can't live without that and that is the image that the younger generation has you know
uh_huh
on that
who was that that could
is that a department store
oh okay
that is probably
no
it is not in uh in dallas
huh_uh
no
we we have dillard's
and uh [sanger] harris and [macy's] and [neiman] [marcus] and things like that
and i am sure that they probably would not have a problem either
well self yeah
self control though is the key uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh dear
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
sure
well experience is the best teacher
and sometimes you know uh a lot of us have have to learn by experience
and and uh if you can learn by someone's else's past mistakes then you are very wise
if you can heed to advice given that is true
yes i am yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
oh credit cards are you know really a blessing
uh but you have to be wise when you use them
and uh i have nothing against them
other than you know people abusing it
and then they get themselves in hot water and you know they are just hurting theirselves
and when you uh have a bankruptcy it takes you
i think about eight years to wipe that off your record
and so you know
that is the shame about that is uh
and people won't touch you
and you have got to live that down
so you have to be very cautious about how you use your credit
i mean it is a wonderful thing
but do not abuse it
oh
absolutely
sure
uh_huh
sure
that is right
well there is a lot of people that uh know exactly what they are doing and they will run into thousands and thousands of dollars into debt
and they will deliberately do this
so that they can go into bankruptcy
and they they have a way of uh [diverting] all of the things that they have bought and put it like in hiding
no
i have heard uh uh there was a radio program in dallas that we listen to
and i
well it in fact it is nationwide and i was shocked at some of the stories that came out of that uh program about these people that really you know they bought all these wonderful things
and then they went bankrupt
and they knew that
yes
they knew that they were going to do
that
and they just uh_huh
and uh they said you know it was worth the uh jeopardizing their credit for that amount of time because they still had the stuff you know
and they could write it off you know they can only uh be responsible for a certain percent
and not the full uh amount that they owed and i do not know who uh determines uh the percentage rate that they have to repay
but it is not surely what they are were indebted for
uh_huh
so it it they use it as a scam instead of uh to me they were criminals and they used that in a in a really bad situation
and that has kind of [snowballed] i guess around
so i do not know maybe the courts and lawyers are working on that to you know cover all the loopholes that might exist
but i have never been in that situation and hope i never have to be
okay
no
i can't think of anything i am sure that we have not covered everything because that is uh that is a great big uh a ball
uh credit
i can't think of anything right now
well listen
thank you for calling
and you have a good day
um no
not really
we use gas cards
more than anything
uh basically convenience
uh which led to habit i guess
oh really
yeah
we don't we don't ever we don't carry a whole lot of cash with us
so we use the the gas cards because our families are both out of town
and like when we travel and stuff
we use the gas cards
yeah
yeah
and then we have uh an american express that's through t i that steve uses just for t i
stuff
yes
yes
a lot
probably the uh uh if there's a premium each year
and the uh the a p r
and there's it's it's kind of hard to beat t i
and so you know usually we just trash it tear it up and trash it
and most of the time it goes [unopened] we just
yeah
if if that much
they're thirteen something
but i'm not sure if it's i think it's a flat thirteen right now
yeah
yeah
and then you're then you're if you're that lucky you get to pay them another twenty five bucks a year just to be that [privileged] to get twenty one percent a year
yeah
yeah
yeah
that would that would help a lot
i i'm not even sure why i mean the purpose of an annual fee
i'm not really
well i guess so
because it's not any more [prestigious] to have to pay it as far as getting another card where you don't
you know
oh really
yeah
have ten percent off
if you got to use that credit card
yeah
that
yeah
right
i did that with my husband uh he was off working at t i in austin one day and so i went out to the mall to kind of look around and hit mervyn's and found some stuff after christmas on sale
and ended up getting fifteen percent off
already off of it already whatever it was lower
and i think that's the only card
i have
that's you know recently is gotten a mervyn's card and i used it for i think for the first time when i was in houston this weekend
and i have i've had it for months
yeah
yeah
i don't i don't like it a whole lot either uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i never understood how people could i mean there are some people who say well i can't charge it it's at
it's limit
and i thought [gol] how can you charge a credit card to its limit it just it just
i guess it's that that you know lack of discipline
when you have a piece of plastic that says pay later you know
yeah
and i just
it's the
yeah
it just worry about it tomorrow
yeah
and it just
i don't i don't really go for them
and i in fact i had my own before we got married
and ended up cutting them up just for the fact that t i had lower rates
you know and decided and i mean when i tried to close with chase manhattan
it was just like pulling teeth
i mean i couldn't close they'd send me a statement every little this is your new
you know balance with bonus points or whatever
you know
and it's like look i closed this months ago
and i don't want any more of your letters i don't want anything
and well you have a credit balance well send me a check
you know
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
they do
but we we were in in that same boat a couple of years ago
and they had said well just list your major ones
and the balance still owed on it
you know or give it a balance still owed on it
and that's all we did
right
right
yeah
and it's like
well who are you to approve something for me without my permission anyway
but i think um i think what you can do as far as i don't think as many companies when you are a good customer i don't think they report that as much as they should their [delinquent] customers
because a lot of times you have to write and ask them to report it to the credit bureau so that you look like you have good credit as far as you know paying off you know your cards early or on time or whatever
that usually doesn't happen unless i've heard people say well you have to write to ask that
and i say well you know if someone's so quick to turn you over because you're thirty days late
i think they they should do do that more often
what do you think about that uh discover card
oh really
the dollar you didn't cash
oh oh well i was wondering how that that worked
because it's like you know we'll pay you for i'm going wait a minute you know
yeah
we don't we wouldn't even have one if it wasn't for t i
and
steve's traveling
we just you know
the topic today is credit cards
uh why don't you go ahead and tell me some uh some of your favorite uses for a credit card if if it all that supplies
okay
well i wish i was in your shoes pat i uh i was i was in pretty much control of my credit cards up until the point where we moved down here from south dakota
and then uh it took my wife and i about two months to find a job
so in that interim everything
went on the credit card and uh so now we're slowly trying to pay it off and if i would i just keep thinking if i would have just been able to take that money and put it in a savings account instead of
right
i'd be
i you know i'd i'd be doing all right
today
but no
i've got those darn credit card bills hanging over my head
right
well that's uh that's always a possibility
um
okay
okay
well i uh while we were doing
like i said we were doing all right you know we'd put gas occasionally go out to eat or pick up a small gift or something you know some clothes or something
but
and we could always pay it off when when the bill came and when we moved down here and everything was going on the credit card
i think we we got a little rampant we you know went out to eat out everything
and you know we we would have to go to wet and wild
and we had to basically play tourists
the first the first month that we were here
and of course everybody takes credit cards
so it got uh it got way out of hand
but [thankfully] we're we're now
working to pay them off
and and we haven't put anything on them in a couple months
it can it sure can
well what uh what do you find are some of the best advantages of credit cards
uh_huh
that's true
right
right
that's right
you can you certainly can
well i understand that
you know you can't even rent a car hardly or uh get an airplane ticket without a credit card
it's
right
well even if you have cash it's hard to if you're under twenty five
and you you have cash
you still can't get
still can't rent a car
you have to have a credit card
and that uh i don't know
okay
you work with t i
then
okay
well you don't speaking of cash
you don't get the five dollars for the phone call you you get the gift part
isn't that how that worked
if you're a t i employee
well that's all right
that's that's an interesting incentive
we uh we wanted to do it because we weren't from the south
and i think we would we'd be able to
well not
yeah
exactly
you know get get to i still have a hard time uh understanding some people's accent
you know i i can't i just can't understand what they're saying
but
yeah
there are
okay
where are you originally from
los angeles boy there's a change
i suppose it's about as cold there as it is here now
well
what's life in l a like
okay
a lot of crime
and seems to me you know i couldn't understand why it would be such a heavily populated area if there's so much crime so much smog so much traffic
this is a kind of ironic subject for me because this is the first year um i purchased
i mean i i was actually able to uh get some credit cards
because i'm twenty one
and i got it through school uh
and i i've kind of you know you kind of make a purchase and you and you forget you know what you put on your credit card
and you know within a month you know they send you a bill
and uh i'm about three thousand dollars in debt right now
yeah
they do
i mean it's amazing
it's like a an an illness or a sickness or something
uh_huh
yeah
christmas time
i can understand
but what my after i got one i didn't just stop
i got i've got about five
six
six credit cards
yeah
and uh so i just charged a little on each
and uh and you just get the um the adding machine out and you add it up and it's it's amazing
uh_huh
we went to
we went on vacation
and uh and i charged a lot you know just
well i charged um like clothes for the vacation
and then on the vacation you know
charged our hotel
and then you know when you go out to eat you charge food
i mean you know
it's so convenient
and you just don't i guess i'm just really stupid i just
didn't realize
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i have a friend that um she's married and her and her husband uh she said you know they tried really hard to pay them off
and it took them three years before they were able to uh pay off their credit cards
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think it was hard for me because i wasn't working at the time
and i was just going to school and like every weekend i would just it was just and go out and just spend uh
but
yeah
um i have a discover
and a visa
a sears
and i have like most of the department stores
yeah
i have um i have maxed that one
yeah
it is
and i got the sears through the discover before i had um and i didn't even know i went over my limit
i mean that's
i just didn't even add it up
i don't know
i was just going crazy
and there's about fourteen hundred dollars on that card
uh_huh
i wouldn't do that i would not do that i've seen on t v
well my view
i work for a financial institution
and
yeah
and i love my credit card uh you end up with more consumer rights by using credit cards than uh what i mean is say you pay for something with a check
your check clears you're out the bucks you pay for something with a credit card you are dissatisfied with it
you take it back
and they say sorry we you can't take it back if you know you can leave it there
and then just have your visa charge back
get your money back
visa
well that's the kind we offer
and uh we're just offering a a new card that gives you up to one percent back of all the charges that you make
cash back you know like [discovers] and we're starting to do that
we are
uh we do
america first credit union
yeah
did you get much back
well good for you
that must mean
and it's one percent
so you spend about five thousand
that's pretty good
well i i do better than that everything goes on mine
and then i've got a business too that i use it for charging computers on
it is nice
yep
well how many cards
have you got
uh_huh
uh_huh
a debit card
i don't like those
oh really
that's interesting
uh_huh
with a debit card
oh credit
oh okay
yes
is it twenty percent interest
wow
our [card's] thirteen and a half
with a ten dollar annual fee
well you have to be a member of our credit union
america first it's we're the
yeah
yeah
you have to a resident of this state
uh do you have mervyn's and all those have you noticed that they all have started [issuing] their own credit cards
what do you think of uh sears not taking any one
but theirs
yeah
do you like that
or do you think that's fair
or
oh
yeah
it's theirs
this is jay in dallas how you
good where you from
oh okay
so
right
that'd be great
go ahead
yeah
that's right
i i think that's what happened to everybody out they gets back when they just sent them to you without any i've got i don't know how many tons of them
but uh i use uh this one particular one for everything
i mean everything i buy including groceries
and it runs up pretty high every month
but then i pay it off because i get a air uh advantage miles on american with it
so i i can get a you know i've already gotten a free trip just from using that card
so i don't uh i don't have any carry over balances any more
but i just i was wiped out there for years
but that was the way to do stuff
and uh i think you have to make the decision
but um texas is uh you know it's a [debtor] state and if you get in too big of a trap you you can just blow them off
and that's not good
but i know a lot of people do it
that's what runs that interest rate up you know pretty high
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well it's uh the interest rates are still crazy up there you know
and they've come down except the credit cards
so it's not uh it's not really an advantage to have them now
they uh some of mine
i think up over twenty percent
i don't use them any more
but i think
they've gone over twenty percent a year
and some of them you know i think the one i'm using is about fifteen but i don't use the interest any more
so it doesn't make any difference
and then when i travel i travel a lot in europe
i use diners club and that gets all my um uh insurance on rental cars
and of course they have a pretty good uh uh plan on the gifts and things like that
i try to get something out of them now
so
right
absolutely
there's no use paying that fifty or whatever it is a a a year
oh sure
um personally my my next project i think is to take those that i do have and cut them up
that i'm not using uh especially the ones that don't that there's a working asset to these that gives a lot of money to um the environment and things like that
that's my second here
but i've got one [cigna] visa that doesn't give you a damn thing
so
uh i think i'll cut it up this year for my new year's resolution
i've got a lot of um gasoline credit cards that i don't any more because they take all the others
so i might as well pitch them
i mean it's just weight carrying it in your pocket
absolutely
yeah
oh yeah
you can
i was absolutely
uh i r s checked me one time and they said nobody in the world could have paid this much interest
and i said well i'm glad you mentioned that because i've got receipts for all that
but you know something else
i couldn't have proven but uh that was
i'm not young any more
so i uh took a long time to learn
but a lot of young people do get trapped on it it's easy you know you don't have any money
and
yeah
oh sure
and they got all those late charges now
and stuff they didn't used to have
and if you go over the limit
there's a charge
i mean they're they're really starting to hit you know a lot harder than they used to
they they
you use credit cards
do you
uh_huh
i see
what is the advantage then of a gold card
because um you don't pay any interest if you have a regular mastercard or visa
i see i see we use to get the american express card and stuff like that
and then we just kind of got back to plain old mastercard and visa uh because we never really had any um benefit that we thought was worth the the price of the special card
so it may change if we do a lot of car rental which we don't do
or other types of services
i'm sure
there're some things that come along with the gold cards that are appealing and and uh i've just wondered what they were they haven't been appealing to us so far
yeah
that you know i think that was my original appeal uh i was i was in my twenties
and the american express card really appeals to people on that basis of of you know you've arrived you've got this card
and uh you know it got to what fifty five dollars a year or something like that
and my wife said well this is ridiculous
why are we doing this
and uh so we stopped doing it
and we refused to pay
i don't know whether you know this
but my wife discovered this we started to refuse to pay our banks an annual fee for the that for the visa and mastercard
and they said fine
we'll give it to you
anyway
and we said you know
we're uh we're not interested in your card any more
and they said well wait a minute
is it the price and we said yeah
so well we won't charge you any more
you know
and they used to charge what eighteen dollars a year or something like that twelve dollars
something like that
so they're wonderful
i mean i think credit cards are great
we use it to get cash
uh you know you can use it now in the safeway out here in san francisco
and it's wonderful in that respect
and we're glad to have them
we we
yeah
it's great you know
and it eventually what we're going to go to is nothing but these kinds of cards
and it'll be mastercard visa and and american express i don't think the discover [card's] going to make it in the long term
um you know we don't need to many cards
and the american express will probably survive
but it'll have to become more like these other ones and become cheaper
i think if the price will come down
i don't think it's worth fifty five bucks a year
when you can use the visa or the mastercard everywhere in the world
and they're pitching that in all their commercials
i notice yeah
yeah
well that's that's interesting
i can see why because then they get some sort of advantage in terms of the conversion fee probably
right
well
and it's going to come that way
and the reason it's nice is because basically what it does is put you electronically in touch with your financial resources anywhere in the world
and that's where we're headed the technology supports that nicely
and uh it makes more sense than than that because you have a card
and if you have insurance which we have had on the card you uh
can have you lose it stolen
and you don't get uh anything charged to you
and that's great
it's just insurance
we're very responsible with our cards
but nonetheless if we lost them
it'd be great to know we didn't have to pay five hundred dollars or whatever
uh on the cards
we look for the low rate
we have u s a a cards you know u s a a
um i use them carefully i guess um
i uh i usually don't
i usually use them to consolidate billing uh for convenience sakes
but i usually just pay them off at the end of the month
i don't i don't avoid the finance charges uh as high as they are
i don't uh
don't you know i don't let them carry over you know
i i've been lucky
i guess i haven't had a bills big enough where i couldn't pay them off at the end of the month
but uh
i try to try to live within a budget you know
and so i keep that in mind
i just don't you know i guess it takes self restraint when you have a credit card to know that that there's you really have to pay these things off
plus a lot more you know
and you got to realize that there's only this much money in the bank and if you're going to live you know if you're not going to try to you know say well pay it off sometime in the future
uh_huh
right
well some people a rip theirs up just because they you know
they can't resist them
right
right
uh_huh
right
i use them to float sometimes
if it's near the end of the month
and you know
and you know i don't have a check coming in a few days
i'll go ahead and and charge it
knowing that the money will be there
by the time the bill comes uh_huh
right
you know we go out to eat a lot of times
i don't like to carry a lot of cash with me
yeah
i have
so i just carry my credit card
and and answer things like that as long as i know you know that i'm i'm not over doing it
it's uh
and yeah
i have i have what i have two credit cards
that's all i use i'm always getting stuff in the mail all the time
you are a preferred such and such
and you are
you're already approved
oh
sometimes they just send them to you and say here have a credit card
i have that one
yeah
i just ripped i just cut it up and threw it away
but you know they had already
is that right
huh
i didn't know that that you didn't want
is that right
huh
that's right
that's right
they could they can make your life miserable if they want to
is that right
we don't have too many exxon stations out this way
we've got lots of mobile [mobiles] are big
and we have a few exxon we've got some other ones like [citgo] yeah
is a is a one
yeah
got some shell stations a few texaco stations
uh_huh
right
and there's another local one i can't i can't remember what
there's some few [sinclair] stations
yeah
the few with the green dinosaur they're they're they're [logo] yeah
there's not that many down here
but you know once once in a while you'll see one
i guess they're still in business
yeah
yeah
you ever you ever gotten in trouble with your credit card where they they've charged charged you for something you didn't didn't didn't purchase
yeah
i have
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
from someone saying
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
somebody blew it
right
right
do you have the discover card
neither do i
they they i don't know
i don't know how anybody can fall into this
you get cash back
and buy into that because all they're giving you back is a little bit of the interest you paid in
yeah
their interest
right
their interest [rate's] twenty two percent
higher than any other ones
and then they said that we'll give you back some of your money
how about like
right
it it's a rip off but a lot of people think it's wonderful
i guess said they're they're doing well
everything i've read they've been getting a more market share
i guess they're they're advertising and [promotions] and i guess so
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i have a on my credit cards
i have a grace period if i pay it off within
when the bill comes i i don't have to owe any interest
and uh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
once in a while
uh my i have an american express they have visa in a buyer protection thing
where uh they extend the warranty
so uh they both can be nice around christmas time
and stuff if you're going to buy a t v or uh
or uh electronic then
and everything
huh
uh_huh
he pays for that
yeah
a couple hundred bucks probably for that like hike high in card
well if you have the money i guess
get what you pay for huh
for that little
right
yeah
uh_huh
right
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
a lot of people do that for a living
i guess
trade money
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
right
the other check went through
made a little extra money there huh
uh_huh
none at all
huh
i see
yeah
has it
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that
that's what we we got rid of an american express card for the same reason though we have a a credit union and we get our cards our other mastercards for free
so we don't have to pay a a fee at all
and that's
i i know people who don't have any credit cards at all
and i'm always amazed because i don't know how they can get by without them
it doesn't seem like you can do anything anymore without a credit card
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i like um too with with us
we've got insurance
of course
but husband's work
but by the time like two weeks ago we all got sick all four us
and one kid had to go to the doctor twice
and then all the other the rest of us did
and he was like six hundred dollars
yeah
and it was we were we all had it was a [viral] pneumonia it was really bad
and and we were just horribly sick
but i mean six hundred dollars
i can't come up with
but um
yeah
all the doctors here will take a visa
so that and you know go to k mart and use the pharmacy to pay for the uh medicines and then turn it all into the insurance company and wait for it to come back
you know
and so our part of it was still twenty percent but twenty percent i can payoff in one month or as you know then i got to wait for the the rest of it to come back from aetna
but it basically floats you know during the the time because we've got a thirty day grace period on the credit card as long as you pay it you know within that time
and that's usually enough time for the insurance to get back
i try to make that our biggest use of credit cards
i know people who are so in debt
people who have five visa cards
you know it's like why did you go get they charged up one
so then they
but they were still paying their minimum
so their credit rating was still good
and and you would you know they get this in the mail say oh well we can't use that one anymore we'll just get another one
and that's like who you
oh
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
but that's that's a good way to make a big problem in your marriage
real quick gosh that's just dishonest oh well
maybe maybe they'll be all right
i know in mine
if i did something like that
and then my husband found out jeez he would just be well i think i would feel the same way
i'd i'd really feel like i'd been [deceived] you know that that wasn't the thing to do
uh_huh
um
yeah
we've tried to do that we've paid ours off you know all the way down to where we had everything down to zero and especially right before i i quit work two years ago to stay home with the kids and right
and before i left we had everything paid off we were in great shape we were putting money you know because we were both working
we were finally putting money in
but we've gone back the other way to some extent because just because there are times when you just can't pay it all
because there are just too many bills
yeah
uh_huh
oh isn't that silly
i i sent that one back
because we had used it for a year
and we had used a thousand dollars worth during the year
and what we and i think we got back fifty cents or something
it was like please what is this this is
and the interest rate on it was was eighteen or nineteen percent
and our visa card was we could get through our credit union was like fourteen percent
so we just we sent it back
we we keep gas credit cards
and we have visa and then i have started my own business
i have a photography business
and i went ahead and got a separate visa just for that photography business
because there are things that i have to buy and and with my when i when i take things to the lab to get developed it's several hundred dollars at a time
and i was using up all of our personal credit with my photography business
even though again it's paying off every month because i'm i'm putting everything
i'm i'm uh you know i'm getting the pictures and i'm taking them back
so the people already have their money
but i wasn't [depositing] them until i gave them the pictures back
another practice i found i'm going to have to stop
hot checks
you wouldn't think for a for a twelve dollar school picture
that uh that people would write a hot check
but they do
i guess
it's just you know
and when i think about that this this particular lady who wrote me a check for twelve dollars
and it bounced and i sent it through you know sent it through the check through the bank once
and she [incurred] at least a fifteen dollar fee
for a returned check
so now she's already doubled the price of her check and i've sent it through a second time because they said there's money in the account now
you know and and if it doesn't go through the second time that woman's out thirty bucks
for one twelve dollar check
gosh
yeah
he's going to have a debt going out the year
uh_huh
uh uh_huh
well we have a lot of mobile stations around here
and i used to use that card almost exclusively
but now they're charging the extra five cents to use your credit card and texaco and [chevron] and somebody else is not anymore
they'll take it you know at the cash price
or you they'll now let you write a check
if you have their card
so you pay for it immediately instead of um you know putting it off for a month
what's that writing a check for gas
well all of them down down here you had a cash price for gasoline
and a credit card price
right
that's that's the
uh_huh
right
and and they've changed that now now stop it go play and leave me alone yeah
and so i'm using the other ones now because they're just as easy to get to
and then they're nickel a gallon cheaper
so
yeah
we try not to we're probably the only two people in the united states
the banks don't want to hear from us because they want those people who charge it up to ten thousand dollars
and and then get all yeah
and then pay fifty dollars a month
and it all goes to interest
oh i guess they must they must make a ton there's not too many places you can make eighteen percent interest on things anymore
that's what we need see you
and i need to get in the credit card business
we need to start our own credit card
if you can
yeah
because you sure can't get that interest anyway else
oh yeah
ours are like seven percent
we've got one
and with with i r a stuff in it
and uh jeez
you can't get any interest rates
my folks have just retired just in the last couple of months
my dad has
and uh they're trying to figure out you know what they're doing with stuff
and my mom's in there cutting up the credit cards you know can't use these anymore
i got rid of mine about uh-oh
it's been about four years ago now
and uh went on a strictly cash basis
and sometimes it's inconvenient
but it is so much better for me because i i am the type that will always find an emergency
but i have found that there were so many things that with a credit card i really did need
and with cash
once you know it took me probably two years to get on a cash basis when i stopped charging but once once i did
you know it it only takes me two or three months to be able to save up what i want to buy
and i'm not paying the high interest rates
because it's so easy you know you have these wonderful intentions of well i'll just pay off the whole balance and then i won't owe any
and then something comes up you know
and well i'll just pay the minimum
well you just do that forever
no
you're paying the interest you know i've i've thought about going ahead and getting something like american express
where you have to pay within thirty days
right
and just for
i d purposes
but it's become such a way of life
and like see it was so convenient
and then pretty soon you get a [consolidation] loan
to consolidate all your credit cards
and then they send you another credit card
right
so i've i just finally figured out that for my way of life
i did much better
and i've i've been able to buy as much or more
by just going cash
and like i say it was tough
because it's a really it's a habit
or you know you'll think
okay
i've got x amount to spend this month and then somebody has a birthday or get they get married or something that well i'll just put this one thing on it
well you don't do that once you start
you know you're going to have a bill coming in anyway
right
and i i just you know for for me it was a trap that was too easy for me to get into
uh_huh
well you know there are times when you know it is
but i i've been laid off twice in the last four years
and had i had a lot of credit cards
i well you know it it really helped that i didn't have that to pay for
but in the other [vain] had i had them i would have lived on them
right
and uh this way you know i i made do
and uh when i was you know employed then i didn't have all that that i had to go back and say well i've got ten thousand dollars worth of credit cards to pay off now
it really
you know with the first like i say it took me over two years to pay mine off
but the first time you know that i could go out and make a major purchase
okay  
uh first um i need to know uh how do you feel about uh about sending uh an elderly uh family member to a nursing home  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
probably the hardest thing in in my family uh my grandmother she had to be put in a nursing home  
and um she had used the walker for for quite some time probably about six to nine months  
and um she had a fall  
and uh finally uh she had [parkinson's] disease  
and it got so much that she could not take care of her house  
then she lived in an apartment  
and uh that was even harder   actually  
because it was you know it was just a change of change of location  
and it was very disturbing for her because she had been so used to traveling  
i mean she she had she had children all across the united states  
and you know she spent nine months out of the year just visiting her children  
and um that was pretty heart [rending] for her  
i think when she finally came to the [realization] that you know no i cannot i cannot take care of myself  
yeah  
i mean for somebody who is you know for most of their life has has uh not just merely had a farm but had ten children   had a farm ran everything because her husband was away in the coal mines  
and you know facing that situation it's it's quite a dilemma  
i think  
yeah  
well my uh my uh  
probably one of the biggest decisions i think that was very strengthening for our family was rather than have one child make that decision   than just [delegate] it  
i think that they they had a great deal of um  
all the brothers and sisters got together  
and they actually had a conference  
and i mean it was just it was probably one of the most strengthening things for our family getting down together and doing that  
and and just the children were involved in the decision because it involved just them   and you know making that decision and then finding a place  
and everybody had duties   to perform  
you know whether it was just you know giving money or whether it was actually taking part in a lot   of the decision making you know   like finding a proper nursing home  
and they  
i know  
they and well they had well they had they had seen it coming  
so so  
i mean it  
i mean i i i i i i truly wish that if something like that were to happen that my children would do something like   that for me  
yeah  
yeah  
well we we  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well with my with my grandmother i think it was it was such that uh that she did not have the problem with  
she was very well aware  
and her daughter came and visited her  
at least her daughter   came and visited her and also her several grandchildren   came and visited her every day  
and i think that when she passed away it was probably one of the greatest  
um i i i think it would be  
it was more of a relief   for her  
and um  
i mean but she was truly she was truly aware  
i mean i i i i don't know how i would how i would deal if one of my parents came with with alzheimer's   or something like   that which is which is far more devastating  
and um i i i think that what one thing that they were concerned probably was the fact it wasn't necessarily you know like the quantity of care   but the quality of   care  
that the people that worked there   were very   were very interested that to make it as close a home environment   as possible  
i think i think i think you know for myself i i see that as probably the the what everything would [hinge] upon  
is it  
how close is it to a home environment  
that's the that's probably the major question  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know it's it's interesting that that a lot the population of the united states is changing because you know uh now that so many more minorities where they have had extended families for such a long time  
um matter of fact in the united states we used to have extended families  
it wasn't  
but i guess as we become more [industrialized] and more you know less in a rural situation   we we don't we we we choose not to deal with the   extended family   because we feel it's kind of cumbersome   when in reality it makes things much much easier  
uh   yeah  
yeah  
i i i think that perhaps perhaps the extended family you know that it maybe one of the solutions to a lot of things even child care  
you know i mean of course there there comes other issues you know whether or not any of the grandparents whether we feel like are going to be a good they're going to be a good caretaker for our children  
but  
i mean they raised us after all  
yeah  
but uh i i i think that you know we always uh i mean i've i've had a lot of good experiences with uh with many many people especially where they've had uh extended family  
and i and i i kind of see that that you know perhaps you know we may need to like get close to the family environment and   and get down to the values of you know  
i mean uh it's  
money seems to be too big of an issue   with   with with   with what's going on today  
and i i think i think that we may not that may be you know perhaps if we put money on the back burner   that may that may choose to alleviate a lot of the problem  
i mean   i mean we may not we may not have as high a standard of living  
but the but actually have a [truer] standard of living  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
well i guess that was it  
okay  
all right  
hey  
bye bye  
well of course it's you know it's one of the last few things in the world you'd ever want to do you know unless it's just you know really you know and uh for their uh you know for their own good  
i'd be very very careful and uh you know checking them out  
uh our  
had place my mother in a nursing home  
she had a rather massive stroke about uh about   uh eight months ago i guess  
and uh we were i was fortunate in that  
i was personally acquainted with the uh people who uh ran the nursing home in our little hometown  
so i was very comfortable you know in doing it when it got to the point that we had to do it  
but there's  
well i had an occasion for my mother in law who had fell and needed to be you know could not take care of herself anymore was confined to a nursing home for a while  
that was really not a very good experience  
uh it had to be done in a hurry  
i mean we didn't have you know like six months to check all of these places out  
and it was really not not very good uh deal  
we were not really happy with   nursing home that we finally had  
fortunately she only had to stay a few weeks  
and she was able to to return to her apartment again  
but it's really a big uh big uh   decision as to you know when to do it  
you know is there something else we could have done you know in checking out all the places that uh might be available  
of course you know there's not one on every corner   especially you know smaller areas   smaller towns  
oh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i can imagine  
uh_huh  
that's tough  
that's tough  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
my mother excuse me  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
that's great  
that's right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
you were very   fortunate  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
unfortunately a lot of times it responsibilities like that seem to fall to you know maybe one child in the whole family you know  
and uh it's usually not a very smooth   smooth thing  
we were i was lucky too that i only have one brother  
and uh fortunately we agreed you know on exactly you know what we thought should be done  
my mother also was very very independent  
she had her own still had her own little house and still driving her own car   at age eighty three  
we were lucky in that in one respect in that after she had her stroke she wasn't really you know really much aware of what was going on  
that nursing home life would not have been you know anything of her choosing  
of course she would she would not have been happy there at all  
but as it turned out the stroke took care of that concern for us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
that would be tough  
yes  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it would  
oh  
yes  
that's right  
i think that great strides are being made nowadays in in caring for the elderly you know in several in a   in a whole lot of areas  
just people are of course populations getting older  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
yes um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
sure  
absolutely  
and   people things are scattered so much nowadays  
yes  
yes  
just because they're grandparents  
yeah  
just because they're grandparents that doesn't automatically make them a good child [carer]  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
realistically it is  
uh_huh  
that would   certainly help  
uh_huh  
right  
that's just a matter of [defining] priorities i guess   or some priorities anyway  
i think your right  
okay  
it was good talking to you  
yeah  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
so what do you think about it  
should  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
um it's it's funny  
because um i know people at that are in all three and people that work you know  
i know someone that works in all three different stages like you said  
and i have known you know people close to me that have been in all three  
and i have seen them like go from where they're in an apartment building  
they we call it um  
well we have high [rises]  
and it's just for elderly people you know  
or most of most of one of their spouses has already passed away  
and it's really nice for them because then they're with people their own age and people that have gone through things exactly what they have gone through  
and it's it's really nice to go and see them you know where they can still get around and everything  
and they still you know do their own thing  
but it's it's really nice to see them because  
i mean sometimes  
like i had a great aunt  
she lived with us for um three months and because she's starting to get alzheimer's disease  
and i know i have a bunch of younger brothers and sisters  
and i know it was hard for me as well as it was for them to to actually sit down because she doesn't like doing things that the younger kids like doing  
and to actually sit  
so it's really nice to see that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i'm in college  
and i'm i'm only twenty one  
but we had a i had a speech class last semester  
and there was a girl in my class who did a speech on home care of the elderly  
and i was so surprised to hear how many people  
like whenever they're in you know the older people they're like um [fastened] to their beds so they can't get out just because they you know they wander the halls   and they get the wrong medicine just because you know the the aides or whoever just give them the wrong medicine  
and so many of them you know are  
yes  
and it was it was awful to hear what you know what some of these people really went through  
and i forget the percentage of people that you know that she had said  
and this was i mean she did research on it and everything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know  
and and sometimes they share a room  
and it's just a little [cubbyhole]  
and they share it with another person  
and they're still paying that much  
it it it just sometimes it just seems ridiculous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i've been lucky  
well my mom's um parents they're both in their in their uh eighties  
and i was just home for spring break  
and my grandma said something to me about she goes well maybe we'll just sell the house  
she said it's getting too big for us to take care of  
and i was like no  
no  
no  
stay in the house as long as you can  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
it sounds like uh an apartment or  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
see now we've run into a lot of problems where our relatives were  
well i've lived here for thirty years  
and we've built this and this is our home  
and we have nothing else to show for our lives  
and we don't want to leave  
uh we've run into a lot of that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what like  
well um now i know we have an  
we call it an old folks home  
but it's basically a nursing home too  
but everyone has basically their own room  
and they're you know  
none of them have cars because they can't drive  
but if someone would come to get them you know they're allowed to leave with them  
and there's a staff there that makes supper for them  
and each person has a chore  
like maybe wednesday night it's [george's] turn to set all the tables  
and it's really nice because that keeps them going too rather than just sitting around  
and i know um our youth group goes over  
and we play bingo with them and you know like   stuff like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just to keep them going  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but i think before  
like you  
i don't think i don't think it's right to just put someone in it  
i think they would have to agree to go in it  
well yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
um i like the idea of nursing homes as a as a growing the choices you have in nursing homes now whereas used to you used to have only you put you know  
when when people got to the point where they were [debilitated] and couldn't take care of themselves  
and there was no other choice  
you couldn't take them in your own home  
then they went into a nursing home  
you know maybe you lived too far away to care for them  
or your daily job or whatever prevented it  
but um i like the choices you have now where they can go into an apartment type setting and have some basically have a independent life style but [assisted] care  
and then if things deteriorate they can go to a second level which is you know like where they prepare their meals for them  
and and they still live somewhat independently  
but they have people checking on them and making sure they have hot meals  
and then where the same community a lot of times will also have the third level which is full care you know where some people can't where they're in a wheelchair or where they're in a bed  
and they can't get around  
but then they have full care  
but i really like those those options now  
and and i think about it more often because my husband's parents are they're very active right now  
but they're seventy five and and seventy two  
so that comes up somewhat more often in my thoughts as i see these things   because of their age  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's some of the things i would find important before i i would look into that for a person is is is like you're saying a good mix of people who have the same interests  
and uh and the programs  
here they have different uh besides just different levels within the same program they have different types of programs  
they have several areas  
they have one area in town where the people  
i guess a lot of it comes with money  
i this this one area is a bit more expensive  
and the people who probably are living there have had more money in their life  
but but things that people where they have similar interests  
like you're saying  
and the programs that they have where where some of them will have dances once a week  
and some of them sponsor different crafts  
and they go to the [arboretum] to see things  
and they make sure that if they want to go to church there's a bus there  
and it'll or you know or someone will transport them to a specific church even though it's you know maybe it's thirty minutes away  
because it's a big you know dallas area is a big metropolitan area  
but a lot of these places have have churches or have have individual transportation  
that's that's something i'd look for something that would make me happy personally if i had to live there  
because i don't think a lot of people really even in the nice ones and even in the ones where they can live fairly independently they really don't necessarily like it   because they're not in their own home  
so i think those kinds of things to make it more [homelike] and to make it more um enjoyable for them that'd that'd be one thing i'd look for along with the uh health care aspects   to make sure they had you know that it was clean and that they had good doctors and nurses  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
are [overmedicated] too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one of the things that that we don't think about as we get older and the the money that it now requires to uh be in one of these places  
because some of these people that are just on social security  
and if they don't have any living relatives  
perhaps they never had children  
or if their children you know passed away before they did   they can be in some places that are you know that that are not good  
or they they have very minimum minimal care  
and the the care that they are getting the people who are giving it are are paid at a minimum wage  
and they just they don't care as much  
and and like you said they're trying to make it the caretakers in some cases are trying to make easy on themselves to the point where they're putting people in bed or [overmedicating] them so they'll stay in one spot and not do anything  
that certainly would be something to to watch for  
because you've got with some of them being some of these places can even be two and three thousand dollars a month to stay in  
yeah  
oh yeah  
so you've  
yeah  
you've got to really strike a balance in what kind of care what kind of level of care you need and then what you can unfortunately what you can afford at the same time  
well like there are other communities too that aren't necessarily a nursing home  
i had an aunt who lived in a small town in texas that um was in a  
it was a it was a housing division  
each person had their own little bitty house   that they had built  
and it was um [supplemented]  
their they were most of them were on social security  
and they got some kind of supplemental aid besides from the state government  
but it was this little bitty one bedroom house  
but it was a separate house  
and they had a living room and a bedroom and a kitchen   and a bathroom  
so they still had they had and they had people who came in who um supervised all these houses  
were like fifteen or twenty of them all right together kind of like on one block  
and they had a a supervisory um  
wasn't a house really  
it was it was more like um a headquarters   or something anyway where they they staffed it three shifts a day so that someone if they needed someone they could ring  
and and someone   could come to their house  
and that and they always cooked  
then they had they had the choice you know  
they lived in their own little house  
they had their own possessions still in there to some you know some of them  
and they could make their own breakfast if they wanted to and their own dinner  
and they always had somebody come in for lunch  
but they had people who did you know they didn't have to mess with the yard  
they had people who did the yard  
and they had a maid that uh uh service that came in and cleaned everybody's house  
so they didn't have to worry about that  
and it was really a nice it was really a nice compromise especially because she felt like she was still living in her own house  
and she still had her own couch and her own bed  
and it it really helped a lot  
and she was a lot more comfortable  
and she didn't resent like having to be in a situation because she still had a lot of her own possessions  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it would be hard to  
that's that's why this  
she was she felt that way too  
but when it helped that she got to still be in a house and still have some of her own stuff  
and i guess that that  
it was a pilot program i think where she lived  
so it's probably not widely available  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
that's good  
everybody needs some sense of responsibility  
an even even if it's just a little bit  
yeah  
so it's it's more like living with a big in a big house where it's your turn to to set the table like you're saying or whatever   instead of being waited on hand and foot all the time  
yeah  
that would be nice  
yes  
unless they're at a point where they're mentally   incapacitated  
like you're saying with alzheimer's and stuff they're going to be some people who have to be there   whether they want to or not  
and that's when it's important to really check out the medical aspects of it when you're when you're in something like that   that they'll get the kind of medical care they want without or they need without [overdoing] it   without doing something to make this you know to keep like you're saying to keep them still to make the staff happy  
so  
all right  
well on this subject i really hadn't had to deal with putting someone in there yet  
but my mother's always been administrator of a nursing home  
so i've always been involved you know in one  
well i've   well i can kind of see both sides you know  
i really can  
uh nursing homes to me  
i would personally be the last resort   you know i you know if i had to put someone in there  
yeah  
if it's a have to thing  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i kind of think that's true too i guess because it's so under staffed you know  
that's like everything else though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i've always  
well my sister's involved in one also  
and i really think they really do a wonderful job  
but still there's those little things that happens you know  
there really is which  
i think it's a wonderful place you know if it comes to that you know if you just can't take care of them any more  
uh_huh  
that's it  
uh_huh  
other things  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think when the time comes i i hope to have the time to really look around you know   and pick one that i really think my mother would be happy at  
i do too  
[outside's] awful deceiving sometimes   you know  
yeah  
yeah  

yeah  
yeah  
off  
yeah  
to  
no  
uh_huh  
and everything you worked so hard for all your life  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now there is some really nice ones  
there's also you know some private ones you know  
but of course i would never be able to afford to put my parents in something like that you know  
that's way out of my reach  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
the very same  
yeah  
no  
but i there's i think there's ways around it though that you know  
like they could put it in one of their children's names or something   you know  
but still a lot of them doesn't feel comfortable doing that  
you know it's their money  
you know that's how i feel about it anyway  
yes  
yeah  
my mother's seventy now  
so naturally she's retired  
but she's still on her own i mean  
i think that's wonderful  
i really do  
just as long as they can  
and then on the other hand i've seen some people go into the nursing home and just so happy   you know  
uh_huh  
they're not lonely  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
around  
yeah  
but i really don't know what the other solution would be   you know  
i really don't  
but no  
when the time comes i'm really hopefully we'll really look around before i decide on one for my parents  
really do  
because i have been raised in one you know  
so there's lot of things i know to look for  
and i don't think they'd want to go where they used to work either   you know  
i really don't  
it really would  
yes  
yes  
and like i said my sister's still in it  
and i really don't think my [mother'd] want to be there either  
oh  
well it's been nice talking to you  
and i guess we'd better get back to work huh  
all right  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
how do you feel about them i mean since you've   kind of been close to that  
uh_huh  
well i've had a touch of experience  
my um dad had [emphysema] and got to the point where mother couldn't   take care of him  
and uh she put him in  
but he wasn't there very long before he died  
but um i guess um the one time that i saw him there you know as far as the surroundings that seemed okay  
but um we kind of thought that maybe they just wanted to give him some medication to sort of you know   keep him real out of it all the time  
and that's always kind of bothered me  
uh_huh  
i have a sister in law who runs a nursing home  
but i've never actually been there  
and i know that she's the kind of person who wouldn't allow you know a lot of the   horror things to take place that you hear about  
but still   i'm sure there are you know aspects to it   that aren't really desirable  
yeah  
well sometimes you don't have any other alternative  
family and friends are usually well   family's tied up with   their own lives and things and usually working  
and   it's hard to  
yes  
uh_huh  
i think that's important too  
in fact   there's a  
yes  
there's one close to where my mother is  
but in order to get in you have to be able to um walk in on your own  
in other words you can't be in you know too bad a shape   to start out with  
but then if you deteriorate um they have a separate section for those who need care   you know all the time  
but it's always well  
and they have a long waiting list too  
so there's always this feeling of well golly gee you know you've got to be able to walk in the door  
so you can't wait until you're too bad off  
but then you don't want to go do that when you don't have to   because like uh you have to give up your automobile or whatever  
yeah  
and if you're still capable of driving and doing those things then you feel like well gee i'm you know i'm [isolating] myself   here for no reason at the moment  
so it's kind of a that's a hard one  
but it is a very nice nursing home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the problem  
the expense of it all is  
and uh what i another thing i hate to see is when someone has a small amount of money and they go into one of these places and they just eat it all up immediately  
but those who don't have money can go in and get the same care   you know  
so i don't like that aspect  
yeah  
that's right  
well yeah  
i've talked to my mother about that several times lately  
and i i said i want you to have control of your own business  
but you know what if  
yeah  
yeah  
my mother's uh seventy five and still has her own home and everything  
yeah  
that's true  
they have a lot of people around to do things with  
some of those places have wonderful activities and things you know lots of stuff going on  
and they'll take them places  
so i don't know  
it's not all bad  
but i guess once you get ill then you know you really have some problems if you can't get around   and do things  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that might be kind of tough huh  
well you too  
okay  
bye  
so um well i'll tell you my situation is uh i have an elderly grandmother that we did just recently put in a nursing home  
and um her son which is my father is also elderly  
and this is one of the reasons why she had to go to the nursing home is that she was literally driving him nuts in his later years  
now my father's almost eighty  
my grandmother's almost ninety seven  
so um it's strange because it it so hit so close to home that um my father's an only child  
and really me and my sister are the only ones that will deal with my grandmother  
she had many sisters  
and a couple of them took care of her  
and then one her last sister died  
and it was probably seven or eight months after that she had to go in a nursing home because i was pretty much giving up my life my sister was and plus she was driving my father crazy  
she went through three [housekeepers] live in [housekeepers]  
so she's kind of cranky to get along with  
there's nothing physically wrong with her except she's very very old  
but her personality is is very [grating]  
i mean i hope i don't get like that when i get old  
so  
yeah  
you don't know if their complaints are legitimate  
um we don't have that problem up here  
we might maybe in a rural uh  
maybe there's a bad uh a bad home in a rural area  
but it would be a very small one  
um the one my grandmother's in is very um hospital like  
there were some really nice ones here  
all the  
a lot of the nursing homes around here have very good [reputations]  
um this one is more or less for someone who's poor and can't go there  
and my father's is he's no by no means wealthy  
but he's quite well off  
and he could easily have put her into a nicer um home  
but up here there's waiting lists  
and that was the first one that opened  
and i suggested to him why don't you change  
um he said well these people here are they are very nice to her  
and he was saying his excuses if you move her some place else the people might not be so nice  
so the the professionals in the nursing homes really have to want to do what their doing because it's a really trying job  
i mean i go up twice a week to see my grandmother  
and i know the staff very well  
so they couldn't they can't hide anything on you or anything like that  
but i have heard of really awful conditions especially down the southern part of the the country which is  
oh that's terrible  
well that's good  
so is your grandmother um [impaired]  
is she of alzheimer's or something like that  
oh  
oh that does happen  
yeah  
yeah  
you know my neighbors across the street their mother was sick at times  
and they they couldn't handle her  
so they put her in a home  
and then uh the old frenchman he'd get a little drunk look round at his kids oh you still need your mother  
i guess i'll look after here  
and that happens a lot when people are sick or they just real [manic] [depressants] they end up being put in homes  
and it's like oh well  
but that's  
it's it's  
i'm really glad that i come from an area where um that there's good people in the homes  
but it's just as  
it doesn't matter if it is like you say the best place they still don't want to go to these homes  
and my grandmother's real there  
i mean she [cries] every day  
this has been over a year  
and she tries to make me feel really guilty  
but i have to you know i have to put my foot down where where my life begins  
i mean if that was my mother i would really feel a lot more responsible  
i would probably take care of my mother  
i don't really um  
when my father when something  
if anything happens to him i don't want him put in a nursing home just for the fact i don't really want to go and visit him at a nursing home  
and hopefully that he can uh get along with uh in house help  
so he's going to probably hopefully set it up so that he will be able to pay someone to come in and stay with him probably for sixteen hours a day because i think that's the best situation is when you're you get that old and you've been independent your whole life you don't want to go into a home because like i say my father's eighty  
and he's really active  
he still has his driver's license here  
i mean you wouldn't believe what he does  
he actually tows cars  
and as the years go on the tow trucks got better more easier  
and he went out and bought himself a flat bed one  
so he won't have to do very much work  
so someone like that they i really don't want to see them go in a home  
he's got two dogs that are his constant companions  
and he always replaces them  
you know i've had like over the past thirty years i've had you know about seven or eight different dogs all the time  
and it's like  
you know it's oops  
dad's got these two  
and the old dies  
and the young one goes for a while  
and he gets another one  
so i can't see him without his animals  
even though it's very expensive to stay at home   mentally it's just the best thing for you  
i mean when you get on in your years it's the only thing you really have  
and i'm thinking when i get older i i i think if brought all my precious belongings with me i think i could live in a home  
i don't want to be a selfish you know a burden on anyone  
that's what i think because i see what my grandmother puts me through  
and i'm saying that when i get older i could probably make the best of this place i mean  
and of course it's institutional food  
and everybody hates it  
and it's so ironic is that they go in there and they lose weight  
it's really it's a bad thing  
but when they go into the homes they lose weight and because of the institutional food you know  
i think it's fine  
but you know my taste buds are pretty uh flexible  
and here they are they're always used to these old fashioned foods  
they're very set in their ways and used to have what they could get at home  
and now they're feeding them um [quiche] and all kinds of strange food that we would eat  
just  
they don't feed them the old people food the chicken and biscuits and things like that  
that's that's the thing my grandmother really misses i mean really [growls] about  
oh  
yeah  
i know if if if people would think ahead of time and do things like that like build the in law apartment   and have it on you know one floor and really easy access  
well that's what i'm telling my father now  
he needs a new floor in his bathroom  
and i says now is the time redo your whole bathroom  
so you can get in and out  
jeez  
yeah  
i'm i'm i have some great concerns about uh my parents and my relatives reaching that age  
um around here where i live in maryland in the washington area there's there's  
and uh i used to live down in dallas there was just so many stories about uh rest homes where the people are being abused where the people are being kept in filthy conditions  
in fact here in baltimore they've actually shut a couple of them down and taken all the people out of them because they were so uh bug [infested] and rat [infested]  
and uh i  
it really concerns me that um first of all that anyone could let someone live like that  
but if you have to you know how do you make sure  
i mean i'm sure when you make your appointment and go by everybody puts on a happy face um  
you know how are you sure that the home is really as good as it is because once you put someone into there you know they may not like the fact that they've been put in there  
and they might complain about the place all the time even though it's the best place in the whole world they could be just because they want to make you feel guilty for putting them in there  
and you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh that's true  
my uh my grandmother's um  
last time my mother went down there to visit the the place where my grandmother was staying at was so [overrun] with roaches that uh she even you know they went in and she had roaches crawling on her  
there were roaches even in her alarm clock um  
yes  
it was absolutely horrible  
they took her immediately out of there  
and they just threw everything away that that she had from there  
i mean they wouldn't even take the uh the uh the dresser that she had that was her own dresser because it was just you know full of bugs  
they just left everything and uh bought her all brand new stuff  
and they they had called a home where they you know where they were on a waiting list to get into there and explained to the person that was in charge you know what had happened and that they had they had to take her out of the home because of the conditions  
and amazingly enough the very next day they had an opening  
and they put her into that opening  
i'm not sure um what exactly is wrong with her  
up until nineteen eighty two uh  
actually i'm sorry not until  
yeah  
i guess it was around eighty two eighty three i found out i had a grandmother  
prior to that i was told that she was dead  
and um apparently what had happened was that i had a grandfather who um put her into a mental institution  
and uh you know it was a real hush hush thing  
and then i was wondering why my mother always referred to you know his second wife as that [hussy]  
yeah  
yes  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my mother has made similar statements that she doesn't want to become a burden to the family  
you know just put me out to pasture or shoot me or something you know  
are the lines that come from her  
and uh   and i tell her you know no problem mom always got a place for you  
but uh   uh_huh  
hello  
this is jim in dallas  
uh how you doing  
oh you're right here  
okay  
yeah  
i'm actually working tonight  
i just uh called and came in  
do you work at t i  
yeah  
i just got a little booklet uh this not what we're supposed to talk about just got a little booklet in the mail with the gifts  
and i thought i better make some calls  
yeah  
well i haven't had a chance i haven't got a chance to look at them yet  
my daughter uh got a few calls at home  
she talked to some student in  
i guess they give them to computer students too in uh virginia something like that  
she's talked to two students  
yeah  
oh yeah  
great  
uh we're supposed to talk about the elderly now i guess uh  
do you have anybody that you uh are close to that decision on or anything  
or i've thought about it for myself and all  
and my my wife's mother is in a retirement home  
she's not in a nursing home uh  
yeah  
did i didn't we push  
let me i'll hit it again just in case  
i did it as she said  
yes  
but uh she's   she's down in san antonio  
and it's it's a uh it's a brand new one  
it's a catholic uh retirement home for [nuns]  
it's at uh   trinity uh  
no  
let me see trinity  
i keep calling it  
it's not trinity  
i'll think of  
[incarnate] word  
and they have a retirement home for the [nuns]  
and they take some lay people  
yeah  
and that one's really super  
now i i know what they're talking about on regular retirement  
yeah  
there's not too many  
they do have a wing where the people who are really sick you know   have nurses  
and then they have other wings that we visited uh that are very nice  
i mean it's just super  
oh yeah  
they they they have uh like uh a guard with locks  
we've been there once at night at christmas  
she just went in last year  
she drives and everything  
she she she's perfectly healthy  
uh  
well her husband died  
they were in the military together  
and she just did not want to take care of the house  
and she visited the place and then fell in love with it and decided to just [shun] all responsibilities of any kind   so to speak  
and so   she's happy as as heck  
and they serve meals of course  
they have clubs and a swimming pool  
so that's nice  
now i i know the ones where you're really ill we visited a long time ago when   she had a grandmother that was in one  
and they were all more or less hospitalized type   you know really really sick  
it's a tough question  
oh you got more experience than i do then on it  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that would be awful  
i never thought about that you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that uh hopefully we as a country are learning a little more about it  
and they're getting nicer  
i've seen on t v where they take animals and young children  
in fact my daughter is one  
my wife took my daughters one year when they were getting some points for school took them to an elderly home  
and boy that really pumps them up  
that is very nice to see young people  
i think that's one of the sad things is when you're in an older home  
if you just have people your own age you never get a chance to see kids or anything   or animals or anything you know  
you can't take care of them  
kind of obvious you can't take care of children or animals   in a nursing home  
but it's nice to have them visit and everything  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i think you do get more by by stimulation  
my in fact my mother in law just visited  
she's just about seventy five again perfectly fine  
but one and and she visited us here in in dallas  
when she went back every time she goes back to uh san antonio my wife has two sisters there too she said she's much better  
she's much more alive and and uh active when she's been on a visit   with somebody else you know  
and and our routine has obviously hectic with teenagers and everything  
and she's much  
and so the stimulation part is really important i think like any animal anything  
you just lay around uh that's the fastest way to die i think you know  
oh yeah  
i'm afraid i'm a t v [flipper]  
anything bad i like i like to   flip i flip it off  
but it's sad  
it's sad  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
when i was uh younger we i lived in the east  
i'm from the east really  
and it seemed like there were several people that i knew that had their uh parents i guess they would be but well in their  
living with them  
and one of them was even a woman who was fairly old  
and i guess she she had her own separate room  
and i think whether it's more a custom up there or maybe because i was younger  
and it's just not a custom anymore to have uh you know the grandparents live with you anymore  
i guess that uh   well we aren't getting away from that which is not right  
oh yeah  
oh right  
right  
yeah  
oh  
well that's nice in a lot of ways  
bet you were surprised that you said that by mistake  
yeah  
right  
that's what i think about it for me  
i think well my kids better not do that to me  
i don't want that you know  
so i i think of it well how would i want to be treated   rather than well  
it's easy to say oh yeah  
let's put these old folks in a home  
but when i think i don't want to do that you know  
i don't want to be  
i'd want to have my little home  
i always threaten my daughters  
i say well i'm going to build a little house behind yours  
and i'll take care of your lawn he says  
but i'm not going to one of those places  
right  
yeah  
that's what we that's the way we call it which is really wrong  
but my wife's mother and the one she's in san  
it's everything but  
the opposite of what you've seen  
i mean   it's a little hotel you might say  
again a swimming pool and grounds  
and she has enough room  
she has two bedrooms and a and a   separate living area  
they don't have kitchens or anything  
but they have little it's like uh on each floor they have a little kitchen area   where you can go down and have a   make a meal you know  
oh yeah  
it's it's it's nothing like that  
it's like living in the hotel  
i mean   she's totally on her own  
uh and she still drives which we do does scare us some because she has [dented] a few things you know  
and we keep thinking about that you know  
because she they get less alert  
and they don't care  
and i've seen some of these elderly people on t v you know the ones from florida that just run into people  
and they don't even   understand what happened you know  
i know  
i i know  
go ahead  
i'm sorry  
oh he still drives  
that's well it's wonderful in one respect  
but i don't know if you can afford the insurance  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's good  
i mean people are all different  
i i wonder if they should give them a test or at least maybe not take their maybe give them a [refresher] driving course and just to see how well they are every five years  
are they doing it  
yeah  
well everybody needs [retraining]  
it doesn't hurt uh   you know  
the best football players and all the opera singers still have coaches  
and i don't know why you couldn't after sixty five every five years have a [refresher] course and then take another driving  
it would sure the insurance companies would would probably help pay for some of that you know  
right  
there you go  
there's a good point  
very good point  
very good point  
but i think they maybe should do that  
and then the families  
hello  
fine  
i'm [callie] in garland  
yes  
oh are you  
yeah  
you  
i know  
i know  
they  
it was a lot nicer than i expected  
i've talked to  
i don't think they were students  
one i think worked at a university university   um and the furthest away i've talked to someone has been new york  
yes  
we are  
oh well that's a  
did you push the button  
did we  
okay  
just in case  
now what  
oh  
oh  
well isn't that neat  
isn't that neat  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
that's neat  
just supervised more or less than anything and security i guess  
oh  
uh_huh  
what made you all decide to put her or what made her decide to go  
right  
well that's good  
that's great  
uh_huh  
right  
shut ins and  
yeah  
it really is  
i worked in one as a teenager  
i [volunteered]  
well it was really it was really sad heartbreaking i guess  
and uh i just oh i just felt for those people especially the ones that never got visited  
that just bothered me  
that just bothered me so much especially you know at my age  
i was probably about fourteen  
and that really made a bad impression on me  
i always thought not really bad of them i mean because they are most of them i believe are probably pretty good for the people  
but i don't know  
it's just a it would be a tough tough decision  
right  
helps  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
and get that youth back  
you know sometimes that even helps them just being around young people to because some of them are so um just stationary  
i mean they'll get in a wheelchair  
or they'll just sit in a chair  
and and until you come along and really try and pump them up they're just stationary  
and i feel like gosh that's all they do all day long  
so i do love to see young kids go and and men take the pets and everything  
i think that's a real real neat idea  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
right  
right  
stagnant  
yeah  
that's exactly right  
i think they're really neat  
um of course i've seen those reports on t v the horrible ones  
and that scares me  
it's sad to think that we would do that to people  
and you know i've seen them on t v with uh bed [sores]  
and   oh they just stay in the same clothes or the same sheets and not do laundry  
and i just think how can you do that  
these people have given so much of their lives you know to to america   you know whatever  
and here is how we treat them  
just put them in a home and leave them  
uh_huh  
right  
i think  
right  
i think it's neat  
i think uh you learn a lot from them   from all their experiences  
and and that's one of my favorite things to do is sit around and listen to their stories  
i think that's neat  
because they really have a lot of good [insights]   that my my husband's father is really old  
he he had him late in life  
and he's he'll be eighty this year  
and i just uh he lives with different you know people in the family  
he'll switch from time to time  
i just  
yeah  
i just couldn't imagine locking  
not locking him up but putting him in a home and just  
lock him up  
i know  
i know  
right  
exactly  
that's right  
oh you're going to put me away  
that's what my mother  
she always  
you're going to lock me up one day aren't you  
i can tell  
you're going to lock me up  
i know  
right  
that's great  
gosh  
right  
yes  
prepare your  
well that's great  
now can she leave um on a day by herself  
oh man  
that's neat  
right  
right  
i know  
bless their hearts  
you hate to hurt them by doing that  
that's   like their one last thing that they can still do  
and you take away that driving ability  
and that would really be hard  
we've   well we've thought about doing that for my husband's father because he  
yeah  
well luckily he drives a big old tank  
so he i mean i don't think he he could get hurt  
i just hope to god he doesn't ever hurt anyone  
but he   he hasn't had any accidents luckily  
yeah  
yeah  
i saw that on twenty twenty  
they um you know they're testing that they're you know thinking of doing that  
and i think that would be a great idea because i think they do come become less aware  
and they just i don't know they and they don't hear as well for one thing  
and that doesn't help  
right  
at least that way the burden is not on the family of taking their license or their car away  
it's on the state  
okay  
um i don't have any i guess definite views about elderly care  
um the first thing that comes to mind is kind of those horror movies that you see   where elderly people are abused and things like that  
i think that's one thing that i would look at if i was putting my grandmother or my mother uh in some sort of home  
the first thing that i would look at would be their history   as far as any court cases that came out of there um the history of you know their doctors um their nurses and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just out of curiosity what what kinds of things were they doing when they were considered a bad place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
in pain or something  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
yeah  
i would i would personally hate to know that my mother or grandmother or anyone is in a home like that  
and my biggest fear would that they would be is that they would be lonely  
and i would like to know that there are you know just a lot of activities like you said you know just putting a plant in a room   you know just makes just [brightens] and and   and just makes them just a little more active  
television  
they can go outside  
and just to know that they're not you know laying in a room   looking at gray walls you know   that that's what would just really kill me  
i'd like to know that you know they have friends there  
and they have little conversations and things  
i'd like to know there's a lot of interaction and   maybe some kind of of activity little field trips or something  
i don't know how they would do that  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i didn't realize that there were groups that go in like that  
that's   really neat  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
that will be something you know they would look forward to if they knew you know that the puppy is coming on wednesday  
you know that would be something to look for  
that's really neat  
that really is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
putting any of my family in an elderly home to me would be the very last resort  
you know it um  
and i know it's hard for a lot of families if you're trying to to work or trying to take care of your own family   it's kind of hard to to because an elderly person sometimes can be totally dependent   you know on you  
and i know that's hard sometimes  
and   but it would really have to be a last resort   because that would just  
i would feel so guilty  
i don't know  
unless i knew that they were somewhere just really i mean just really great   you know that they were really enjoying  
i don't know anyone personally that's in an elderly home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[nod] your head and smile at them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
oh  
that's something that if i had to work in an elderly home i don't think i could do it  
like i i would really like to be a teacher  
but i don't think i could do it because i'm very very emotional  
and the minute i mean the minute something happens  
i cry on i mean [hallmark] commercials  
that's just the end of me  
and so i mean something real life i just  
i interview a lot of children  
i'm an education reporter  
and i always go and do an education things  
i meet these kids who are you know dropping out of school left and right  
and all the sudden they're in this program  
they're making straight a's  
they're going to graduate early  
and i'm just i just want to hug them   and go you are just fantastic  
and you know i could just imagine you know working in a home like that  
and those people they're so sweet and   and so genuine   you know  
and all they want is just for everything to be happy  
and you know   and so that would probably just tear me apart   i mean in a good way  
but   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and children  
i mean usually a of elderly people like to they like to uh share their experiences with the   with the younger children  
they'll be telling them all kinds of stories   that they don't even know what they mean  
you know they feel like they've lived life  
so they need to share it  
and i'm sure i'll be like that too  
yeah  
but that's great  
i didn't know there were such groups  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i would hate it if anyone put me in one  
yeah  
somebody take care of me  
okay  
okay  
well nice to talk to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree with you  
i um  
a group that i'm a part of goes once a month to a um they call it the heritage house  
it's it's a nursing home for elderly people  
and this particular one has people that are in pretty bad shape  
a lot of them have had um limbs [amputated] or um have serious illnesses   you know that kind of thing  
and um i watched  
the interesting thing was i watched this particular one change hands  
it started out just being a terrible place for the people  
and then a new company bought it   and came in and remodeled the whole place  
hired new nurses and uh just really just redid it you know  
well to me it was dirty for one thing  
uh when you would walk in the smell was just   awful  
the you know the floors you could just   if you're walking on them feel how filthy they were  
um there were a lot of people just kind of up and down the halls laying in their beds hollering and you know crying  
of course i don't know how many of them were you know not in their right mind   or how many were  
yeah  
yeah  
i just really don't know  
but i feel like they were neglected  
and um yeah  
that was what i was going to say  
it sounds like just neglect all over  
you know neglect to [cleanup]  
i don't really think anyone was being you know cruel or   or trying to [mistreat] them or anything  
i just think they were not doing anymore you know than they had to do  
and um just kind of letting everybody live in a not very good environment  
but this new company came in  
and they like i said they remodeled the place  
and it smells nice when you walk in  
and it looks nice  
and they got like several new color t v's for the people   and redid the dining room where they made it you know a lot more place for them to be  
they made a little patio area where they can go outside  
yeah  
just you know small things that make it seem a lot more homey  
yeah  
and it's like it's a lot more like an apartment place instead of just uh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well they uh  
this place that we visit it's really neat  
they have everyday they have schedules of groups that come in  
and they will do bingo  
our group does a church service once a month  
and then other groups come in and do the services you know other sundays  
so that they have at least one service every sunday  
so there are a lot of things  
there are places that have a lot of things for them to do  
but you really do have to kind of seek it out you know   and make sure that it's not a place like this one was  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's real nice  
and um i know our church does it  
and there are a lot of other churches  
and they are just like civic organizations   that do  
and uh i have other friends  
it's kinds of neat they take animals over and let the people pet them  
like they also have a dog that maybe needs a home  
and they will wash it all up   and make sure it's it's a friendly animal   you know and take it in and let just let the old elderly people pet the dogs  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i thought that was a real unusual thing   for someone to do  
so yeah  
there's a lot that can be done  
it's just a matter of people not being lazy  
and you know doing the best they can  
again i don't know what i'd do if it was my own mother or grandmother   you know  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i would too  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i know  
i know what you mean  
yeah  
well i have interesting conversations with a lot of these people because um many of them of course their minds are not good  
and so a lot them have told me exactly the same story you know  
every time i visit them   they'll [reminisce] about childhood   and tell me something that they did  
and then the next time i go it's the same thing you know   that just somebody to listen to them  
uh just seems to make them really feel good  
right  
i'll tell you the people i feel the [sorriest] for  
there's a guy at this particular one i go to   that i think that he's really an intelligent person  
but he has [cerebral] [palsy] so bad that he just cannot communicate  
and um he's blind  
and he has [seizures] you know  
i mean he's just like in a world of his own  
and yet he wants so much   to be around people  
and if you come over to him if he can touch your hand he'll grab it and kiss it  
oh and he's always got a smile  
i mean he really tries to [brighten] up your life  
oh it's just amazing  
but he can't say anything  
he can just kind of make noises  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
i know  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it does  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's really hard  
and   but one of the neatest things i think though is we always take our kids  
i have a three year old and a six year old  
and they um have gotten comfortable being around these people   because they've always gone with us  
and the people love them  
and they want the children you know to hug them or hold their hand  
and so far my kids will do it just real easily  
and i think it's because they've gone since they were real little  
and they've never been afraid  
but that's something  
to me children   you know need to  
people need to take groups of children   because the kids just [brighten] up their lives  
as we walk through the the lobby they'll all say bring her here  
i want to see her  
i would love to hold her  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
well me too  
yeah  
it's quite an experience  
yeah  
yeah  
there are  
and and uh it really helps those people i think  
but like you said i'd really have a lot of second thoughts before i put any of my own family members there  
it would be a last resort  
oh i know  
i'm always afraid like oh  
no  
what if i lose my mind  
am i going to end up in a place like that  
yeah  
that's right  
well  
yeah  
you too [tonya]  
thanks for calling  
bye  
uh_huh  
well my parents are both in their seventies  
my my mother and stepfather and my father and [stepmother] are all in their seventies  
and my uh uh father and [stepmother] are not in very good health  
so this is something that is  
yes  
it is  
yes  
they are  
they are  
not for them my my mother and stepfather have have uh set up an arrangement where they have a large home and uh two of my sisters and and their families one of them's husband and then all the children are living in this home  
its got a lot of bedrooms and bathrooms  
and and uh they all share the same kitchen and dining room and den and kitchen  
and and uh my father bought this uh my stepfather bought this thinking of a time when one or the other of them might need care  
and they felt like that would be their alternative to a nursing home  
unless unless they were so ill that they needed nursing care that could not be given in the home  
well i i felt good about it because that's my personal feeling also  
i uh i read a lot  
and then i know people then have visited nursing homes and uh have had great grandparents in the nursing homes  
and it was not a happy situation for for any of them  
and and uh we have a very active nursing home here in plano that that has uh activities going all the time  
and they have uh  
even the people that are wheelchair bound and and really are are incapacitated   go and uh participate in olympics  
and they make their crafts and sell them at a big fair that's held annually at a big mall here  
you know so there are a lot of a lot of activities going on all the time  
and this is a nursing home  
it's not a senior citizens home  
so that the people are really uh  
right  
they need   the nursing care  
and and but it's a very expensive solution  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and that's right i well i took my husband one night to an emergency room when he was in an emergency situation  
and uh they brought in a very elderly man from a nursing home who had had uh apparently [inhaled] some chicken he was eating  
and uh he had apparently had not been in the home too long just a week or so  
but when they the family came in to see him they had not been made aware  
i was in the room when the emergency technicians brought him in from the ambulance  
and i overheard their conversation  
and when the family walked in his wife and daughter and son in law they were not even aware of what had happened  
so i told them he strangled on some chicken  
and uh they said the the woman the wife said he was not even supposed to be eating any food like that that would require chewing or   so you know  
and i thought  
right  
right  
and then she was upset  
he had on two different shoes one of which was not even his  
he had on a pair   of slacks  
and the wife said these are not his slacks  
and she said i just took two pair over yesterday for him that were clean  
and  
right  
right  
well i this was just something that i was   i witnessed to  
and and uh at no point did anybody from the nursing home come in  
and we were there in the same room with the man for a half hour  
and with just a curtain of course between us and and uh  
they [revived] the man and cleared out his [airway] and so forth  
and he was definitely  
just by looking at him and the way he acted you could tell he was in need of of nursing home care  
but the family were all talking about uh putting him in another home  
they said he will not go back   to that one  
i'm glad they the option  
i i would hate to be in a position where that was all i could afford  
and there were not there was no choice  
oh my  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's right  
visits everyday  
right  
visit  
right  
right  
suspicious  
you know i i my i remember my my grandmother many years ago when she was in a nursing home before she died  
and i guess there was not a name for what she had at that time  
but i guess alzheimer's would come as close as anything  
she really was not aware of what she was doing  
and uh i i can remember she had several strokes  
and the nursing home was right next to a hospital  
and they would rush her to the hospital and [revive] her and just bring her back to the nursing home in a couple of days  
and it was she was it was just like keeping something  
okay  
well the topic is selecting care for the elderly  
and i don't have elderly parents yet but not that far in the distant future  
what about yourself  
a concern of yours right now  
are are they living independently right now  
oh  
have you looked at any homes for them or talked to them about that  
oh that sounds the ultimate  
well even at that point most care can be given at in the home  
that sound like just an excellent solution  
you must feel real good about that  
uh_huh  
right  
really in need of a nursing home  
right  
uh_huh  
well it's you know  
i think we just you know listen to is the fact that there are good solutions both inside and outside of nursing homes  
it's just a matter of finding   a good home  
and and then of course there is always the problem of being able able to afford either of those solutions  
and that i think is what is scary  
and i also feel that that's where some of the bad [images] of nursing homes come from is when people have to put people in a nursing homes  
and they really can not afford the best  
oh  
oh goodness  
oh  
what a shame  
they put him in the home so that he could be cared for  
and then they could have done that well at home  
oh  
you hear these stories   all the time  
you happened  
right  
oh  
right  
well good  
good  
i'm glad they have a solution   to do that  
yes  
i know  
exactly  
my uh my ex husband's grandmother had been in a nursing home now for oh it must be seven eight years  
and uh and uh   it's just her her condition deteriorated deteriorated instantly upon getting into that home  
as the situation is so sad because it just takes all the [dignity] away from   from people who have been independent all their lives  
like this was a really neat vital woman  
and you get in a nursing home  
and the first thing that happens you have to share your your whole living space   with someone that you have never known before in your life  
and oh i i do not know what the answer is  
but i do know that there are some wonderful places out there  
and it i think it does  
a lot of it goes down to just money   and family support  
uh if you you know have family that uh you can live with  
right  
right  
i i really  
i think the way of selecting a nursing home would be similar to the way you would select child care you know  
you would do your research  
and you would go visit  
and uh hopefully they would have they would have it so that you could go there anytime  
because if you could not go there anytime then that would make you   a little bit  
right  
uh_huh  
hi  
you want to start first  
right  
uh_huh  
you apparently have somebody there in one  
oh you are kidding  
oh  
uh_huh  
i will be darned  
uh_huh  
oh for heaven's sake  
you are very very much aware of what goes on  
that is great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i will be darned  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now see that is a nice attitude to go into  
uh it seems like they must be waiting until it is a necessity  
and there is no chance of uh good companionship or doing anything  
uh_huh  
uh right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that is true  
but what i mean is instead of maybe entering a nursing home   when you are still able to have good   relationships with   maybe other friends   they wait until they are you know unable  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that is great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
see if they could could get this idea across though better than what it is   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well you have that with anything  
oh yeah  
in the homes yeah  
well   we used our nursing home as uh  
like when my sister was real bad before she died   uh we took her the last month and a half   into a nursing home  
and they were super with her  
they were uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well a lot of people do that  
they   left them [temporally] maybe they had a   broken hip or something or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and it can become home to them  
it   it depends upon the individual  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
this is  
and  
there has to be consideration taken on everything  
yeah  
that is right  
you would look into it thoroughly and   do do the best job you could in choosing one  
uh_huh  
no  
and you do not have the time to look  
that is what   i am saying  
most people will not even look at that until it becomes a necessity  
uh_huh  
whatever their talents yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a cousin who is uh  
she had a son that was [epileptic] from birth  
and he did fine   at home  
they lived on a farm  
but she made arrangements so that when she was gone   she did not want her her children   her other children [burdened] with his care  
so he they she has made arrangements that when she she was gone that he would go into the nursing home  
and he has i would say he adjusted very well  
and uh he he he has been there quite a long time  
and uh he don't know me usually  
so he goes wheeling down uh the hall to bingo  
somebody else is helping him out   you know  
and uh he has adjusted very well  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to keep them there uh_huh  
true  
yes  
but   for some reason people resist uh the fact that they should be paid as well as businesses and that type of thing you know  
it seems to be a resistance  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but there seems to be a resistance  
yeah  
yeah  
so uh  
well around here we have some you know the churches   take your the children  
and   i know our kids thoroughly  
the children thoroughly enjoy  
of course  
we are talking about the elderly and   uh whether or not we we like nursing homes  
and   as a matter of fact i can tell you something about that  
no  
actually my grandmother owned and operated a nursing home for years  
and her mother  
no  
she did  
and then my mother also owned and operated a nursing home   for years   and then uh went on back to school and became the director of nurses at a nursing home  
and uh my mother and my older sister both are geriatric nurses  
so i do know something about that  
absolutely  
actually the motivation for grandmother entering the business   was that her mother was very old   and couldn't seem to find companions  
she was lonely  
and she needed company   for her mother  
and so she opened a nursing home and initially started with eight ladies  
and then uh it it grew into a   very [prosperous] business from that point  
uh then they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that is not really true either uh  
i think that is a stigma and an i   and an impression that has come from some few bad experiences  
you see those who had bad experiences talk about them  
and those who do not may write   a letter to the nursing home and say you did good  
but they do not talk a whole lot about that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
well now   that is right  
well that is because they wait until the children make those choices   they choose to not make those   choices themselves  
however my daughter in law also is a nurse in a nursing home  
and uh she works for one here in dallas which is more a retirement village than it is a nursing home  
and these these  
i love watching these elderly people come they will come and tell her well i am going for my   tennis lessons  
and uh would would you you know call down and have the van come around and take   us for our tennis lessons  
and they are very active and very enthusiastic  
and they have   some excellent programs right there on site  
their dining room looks like you know luby's cafeteria  
or or one of the lovely cafeterias  
and they have you know pink [linen] [napkins] for their dinners   and a well equipped library  
oh i am certainly very much for a nursing home  
and i think when the the parent gets old enough   to the extent where they just do not want to be bothered with keeping house   and with taking care of themselves   anymore that is a wonderful alternative  
it is expensive  
it is costly  
uh_huh  
well now my daddy's mother uh lived in a a retirement village  
and she and her sister had side by side duplexes   one bedroom duplex  
she still had her individuality  
but they were there close  
and they did have uh you know the button that you could push the central office if you got into problems  
and   there were lights that you could flip on and so forth  
and they have security  
no  
i am very much in favor  
i have heard horror stories  
i know that the elderly can easily be abused  
but i would be willing to bet they are far less abused in a nursing home than are they are in   homes of their own children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
well now my grandmother  
of course all of my folks lived to be very old  
and my grandmother developed [hodgkin's] disease   when she was in her late eighties   uh late seventies i mean  
she went to the doctor  
she had surgery  
she got the treatments  
and during   the period of time that she was [undergoing] those treatments she was in a nursing home  
she got better  
she got well  
she got out and went dancing again  
uh_huh  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it is a wonderful interim place  
it is a place that you do not have to struggle with hospital   problems  
and yet it is not you know  
you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it certainly is  
it certainly does  
but you see we have had excellent experience with that  
and uh i i did not put my husband in a nursing home when he became ill  
but   i would not object to going to one  
i might   i might like to be uh coherent enough to make my own choice  
uh i would not particularly think i would want my kids to say well i think this is what i need for mom and   then dump me there  
but i would like  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i think you would shop for a nursing home just like you would shop for a church   or a doctor or anything else  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
when you get to the point where you are in trouble   and you have got to have that help you are in no position to make those choices  
that is right  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
i think that one of the best ways to do that is for families to realize they are going to be needing those facilities one day   and to actually get involved and participate on a community level with community service  
go out to the nursing home help guide some craft programs perhaps work on some music programs whatever their talents are   and work with   those senior citizens  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is right  
uh   well one of the things i think that is most desirable for the elderly and that is routine  
routine and   uh [constancy]  
uh the only real problem with that in a nursing home is that the staff turns over  
i do not think they pay   the nursing home staff [sufficiently]   to to get the dedication   that they have in some other profession  
and that is sad because i think the health profession is one of the most critical  
and uh  
that is right  
care for the elderly and care for the children   i cannot imagine a more costly and a more   a more uh better area to invest   your money  
you are preserving your heritage and your future there  
and as a matter of fact i do not see why they do not have children's programs in nursing homes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we're to discuss a little bit about the process of putting someone in a nursing home and making the decision on a family basis  
and probably the first question would be whether you've ever had to go through that process  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it was pretty much a physical decision  
um  
yeah  
my husband's family are reaching that point  
but it's it's so difficult  
was she in favor of it  
or or was she kind of opposed to it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so often i think though elderly people don't realize that their diet is that bad  
i work with a lot of elderly people  
i'm a trust officer  
and so often they think they're adequately caring for themselves when they're really not eating very much or very balanced meals  
yes  
well you know that's part of the aging process   that your taste buds goes back to the sweet taste  
it really is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the portions  
people don't want to try to figure out little bitty individual meals  
i do that right now  
and i'm not near nursing home age  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so as a family you all just visited nursing homes  
or probably in college station there wasn't a whole lot of choice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's a given  
uh_huh  
and sometimes the the help there does it i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
adapt  
yeah  
i as i think i mentioned i was in the trust business  
and i've seen so many elderly people  
usually there has to be some wealth involved which is great if if you're financially if if you don't make the decisions so late that you're worried about money  
but   the the places like presbyterian village and some of the the retirement places where where they have different levels of care seems to be so much better as far as elderly people [adapting]  
they're able to move in while they're still independent   and still social  
and and they do group things  
and then if health or or mental capacity [deteriorates] they're able to take the next steps without so much change  
and oh i wish everybody could go that direction rather than just all of a sudden moving out of the home they've always been in  
it's really kind of difficult  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well and it's the first step in in actually accepting that you are failing and and aging  
you know once you make that step you know that it's just going to be downhill from then on  
and and i've seen people really fight it that desperately needed   to make the change  
they they became  
in fact that's probably what's going to happen with my husband's mother  
she's going to [endanger] herself before she'll willingly and probably will never willingly make the decision  
and that scares me the the thought of forcing somebody to do something  
yeah  
uh_huh  
not as independence  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the quality of life really isn't there  
oh it's tough  
it really is  
uh_huh  
well they fear being dependent   on somebody  
they they fear being a burden   to to family members  
my husband's mother will have major surgery  
and we'll find out about it in a casual conversation  
she'll let something slip  
and we'll say wait a minute  
and and that's it  
she just well  
i didn't want to bother you  
she can't accept that we want to be the care givers  
yeah  
well she stayed she stayed in a temporary nursing home   until she was okay  
you know it's just  
but it's frightening to us because we live pretty far from her  
she's down in temple  
and we can't see her often enough to really know what's going on  
so it's difficult  
it really is  
and we're all heading that way  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well not so much personally  
but my um husband has an aunt who has been like a second mother i mean always lived in the same town and took care of him and such  
they live down in college station where   his parents do too  
and they put her in a home last year  
she appeared to have a couple of light strokes and started to uh not be able to be in her apartment on her own  
so they found a a place nearby that they put her in last year  
uh yeah  
although she is uh in pretty good health and she's doesn't take any medication  
it's just she had had her own apartment and drove a car and everything up until that point  
then she was starting to get uh you know lose memory sometimes and which is kind of frightening when she's in the car  
uh  
well yeah  
when it finally came down to it um she just got to the point after the  
i mean it wasn't a very um strong stroke  
it was just kind of all of a sudden she wasn't herself anymore  
and she got kind of fearful of being on her own  
she never really ate very well  
it was one thing  
she hardly   ever took care of herself  
and she didn't eat  
she ate very poor  
so i think she was you know bad uh nutrition on top of it  
and uh she got to the point she didn't want to alone anymore  
so  
um  
well she was almost ridiculous  
like she'd eat ice cream and cookies  
she'd  
didn't one  
oh really  
well she didn't want to cook for herself anymore  
oh that's too much trouble  
that's too much trouble  
didn't want to cook  
yeah  
although they've got uh meals on wheels   which i understand is a really good you know way to handle that so that at least they eat  
no  
i don't think there was um  
i know a little bit more from a a co worker  
her mother in law had been in for quite some time and had different degrees of a place that she was in  
um she was ambulatory  
and so there was a lesser care  
uh then she got uh uh hip broken  
and then uh she wasn't as ambulatory  
so they   were almost you know to the point of saying she can't be here anymore  
but i remember from her checking around she ended up staying at the arkansas house i think out in arlington something like that  
and uh you know the type of facilities whether it's a shared room or two separate rooms that share uh a uh bathroom all of them all seem to say that people there are going to steal their items  
they're always saying that somebody's going to  
and some of them i think unconsciously do it you know   as a just you know half  
uh so they they uh don't have too many facilities it seems for their personal items   very limited space waste  
but um at least they all seem to have uh you know people that monitor their uh medication intake and dining facilities you know go to the dining room   and and eat some good meals  
i know when my friend's mother in law first went in i mean very [antisocial]  
maybe it takes a while for them to say okay well i'll be with other people  
but  
yeah  
i don't understand   that they they don't want to be with anybody else  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a um  
my [aunt's] mother is uh gotten ill recently  
and uh she lives in pennsylvania  
they live in alabama  
and they're saying hey we need you to be closer  
and   you have women like that  
i don't to men  
it seems like the women out just out live their husbands but very reluctantly  
that   whole i mean  
they don't get out of the house  
they don't socialize  
but it's my home  
and i don't want to leave it  
uh  
um  
but it's it's so lonely  
you know they can't get out and see anyone  
and   i mean it's hard for for someone like me to understand that  
because i i think what do you have there  
it's a house  
it's walls  
and it's furniture  
but   there's nobody there  
don't you want to be close to me   i mean you know   be with other people  
i just don't understand why they so much want to just stay in   that building  
and there's no family there  
they don't get to see their grandkids  
they don't get to see their children  
they just there in that house  
yeah  
that's from the child's standpoint  
the child is going why don't you want to be close to me and your other family  
what does that house got attraction  
i know they're really proud of independence  
uh  
well when she got home who took care of her  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
my   husband and i we have been thinking about his folks are in college station  
and we've pretty much planned that we'll be here in the dallas area  
and   there's nothing to hold them there in college station since they're retired  
so we thought maybe we could get them to move a little closer here  
how would you feel about sending an elderly family member to a nursing home  
uh_huh  
right  
and what type of recommendations did you have when you decided where to place him  
oh my  
yeah  
so the convenience  
right  
my grandmother lived with us um until august um  
and we made the decision to put her in a nursing home  
she has leukemia  
and her the rest of her family and her regular doctors and everybody she trusted and knew was in dayton and were several thousand miles away  
so i made the decision to put her in a nursing home  
and my sister being on the other end found one that she could have what was called an independent living facility  
she had her own little room and didn't have to share it with anyone and could bring in her own chair and t v set  
so  
yes  
and that the other major factor is that she needs blood transfusions every week to ten days and would have to be hospitalized a day or two  
so in this facility they can do it right there from her own room  
so she didn't have to be [transported] back and forth  
so she's been there since august the [thirteenth] and seems to have adjusted pretty well  
it's not her favorite place to be in  
she'd much rather be here with me  
but   when it got to the point i was spending more time at the hospital with her  
and i've got little children here who needed me here  
she needed somebody to watch her twenty four hours a day  
so  
she was falling down and [hemorrhaging]  
and you know all kinds of physical problems  
so it just became too much for me to handle  
even though i would have liked to have had her stay with her health being what it was she couldn't   anymore  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yes  
well i think sometimes when people get to be a certain age other people have to kind of help them make decisions  
it sure wouldn't have been [granny's] decision to leave us and go back to a nursing home  
but she's accepted it real well now  
so  
well we enjoyed   having her here  
but we feel she's much safer where she is now  
she still continues to fall  
but when she does there a nurse is right there to help her  
and i know she's eating the right things  
and her doctor's right there where he can come in and check on her  
so it became dangerous for us to keep transporting her back and forth in the car because she was so [wobbly] and needed a walker or a wheel chair  
so i think she'll adjust  
well i don't feel very good about it  
but i think that at some times it can be the right thing to do  
we sent my grandfather to a nursing home at the point when he was really [incapable] of caring for himself anymore  
he actually died a few months after that  
and so as  
at least in retrospect it was the right thing to do  
because he was either in a nursing home or a hospital   or something else that he would have been spending most of his time in those days  
um well the see uh well  
we he wanted to get into a mennonite nursing home which is very popular and hard to get into and had like a ten year waiting list  
right  
we wound up just choosing a another mennonite nursing home that was easier to get into  
or but naturally  
no  
it was even mennonite related  
i'm sorry it was actually not a particularly great nursing home  
mostly the thing was that it was available when we needed it   because he suddenly got sick   and needed to be put in  
uh what do you think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's important   i would say  
okay  
yeah  
right so that  
right  
and   that becomes difficult then  
uh_huh  
yep  
we tried to convince my grandfather to live with us at several points during the last few years of his life  
but he was essentially too proud and too independent   so that even though his heart was getting incredibly weak and his knees were going bad   he lived in his own house as long as he could  
but he was living alone had an upstairs apartment could barely make it up the steps   to the top without a great deal of pain  
and this  
eventually things just went too far  
and he allowed himself to be put into a nursing home  
right  
well that's yeah that's right that the children have some responsibility too to their parents and such to help decide what's the right thing  
and  
uh_huh  
yep  
now then i think that  
are you there  
all right  
do you have any one that has been in a nursing home  
oh  
yes  
well what do you think can be done about that  
i mean what can we do  
well i can  
of course i'm   old enough to remember when the family or the church took care of all of this  
we did not have to call on on someone else  
and i feel  
no you tell me how you feel about  
yeah  
certainly  
i worked with an agency in west texas that they it's where they really started this concept of meals on wheels  
and i think it's such a valuable thing for our elderly  
if they didn't have to you know go into a kitchen  
my mother expired just just a little over a year ago  
and we had finally  
she didn't want to live with either my sister or me  
but we we got found a retirement center for her  
and it was beautiful  
and they had all these they didn't even have nursing care there  
so until  
as long as mother was you know   mobile and   got her food  
and she was with people with whom she enjoyed  
sure  
yes sir  
uh_huh  
being a widow   i find that eating alone is one of the hardest things   i have to do  
i have just recently retired  
and i am finding it extremely hard to adjust to  
so uh mother had the little kitchenette  
and she could do all these fine things that she just had a microwave had to pop   her popcorn  
now this is wonderful  
but when it came time for a full meal then mother was able to go with people   and and enjoy  
oh i think so  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm here  
uh well only my um my grandmother but for a very short time  
um she uh she was just more or less in a in a nursing home for uh recovery from a broken hip   because she could receive more medical attention  
but um that  
physical therapy was there and whatever  
but i think in visiting her there um it was very obvious to see that a lot of the people in the nursing home that she was in uh weren't there mentally  
uh she was probably the only person in the um whole nursing home that uh still had all of her mental facilities about her  
so that was uh that was very [disheartening]  
oh yeah  
it's really hard i guess  
i i come from a family of um of uh take care of your [elders] i guess  
uh my my dad's mother is an invalid  
and she lives with my aunt and uncle  
and they care for her you know all around the clock  
though she's not uh she doesn't have to receive constant medical attention she because of arthritis she's just unable to get out of bed  
so i guess you know there's that family commitment  
um i know that my parents my mother is trying to let my grandmother stay in her house as long as she can um  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well probably i think as long as the person's able to um to understand what's going on around them  
and i think you know my grandmother right now is still able to walk around  
and she's still able to uh to do some things for herself though she gets meals on wheels   which i think is a great thing because um it saves people from having to prepare food for her because you worry a little bit about her leaving a stove on or whatever although she does most things very well it still makes a little bit easier for her  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that  
i think you know it's really funny  
i have two grandmothers still alive  
and my one grandmother says that she wants to stay in her house for as long as possible  
she's like openly told people  
she's always been very good about knowing  
yes she's eighty nine  
and she said that she would really like to stay in her house as long as possible because it's her home  
but when the time comes um she and she can't do things  
and she has to be cared for whatever she would prefer and she's actually said this to move into some type of community where she has her own apartment uh probably with like a living space and a bedroom   with maybe a kitchenette so that if she you know if she wants to fix herself something light she can do that  
but if she wants to go to a meal she can go down the hallway uh to a room where there's a cafeteria  
and there's other people there  
and she can mix with them and talk with them and enjoy their company  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think i think that probably until until they're really [invalids] uh the elderly are [invalids] i think that they should be able to interact with other people   in an environment that they choose if they can if the family can afford it  
i mean um see i know that my grandmother would like to stay in her house  
and my parents actually said you know that they may have to take their end sometime so because you know my grandma she says who she wants to live with  
she's pretty you know  
she lets people know  
well about nursing homes   and and older people  
uh my husband has a grandmother that lives with his mother  
and they're just really close here  
and his mother has bad health too  
and so i go over sometimes in the day when he's at work  
and i um help with her and [bathe] her and feed her  
and uh and i that's hard to be a caretaker i really believe  
it's really difficult to be a caretaker twenty four hours a day  
uh she has alzheimer's and does not remember uh a lot   if anything  
and so she asks the same questions over and over again which is not you know unrealistic  
um and so you just have to try and be patient and answer them again or just answer another question  
uh i uh  
some nights his mother calls me and says can your family  
and just bring the kids in the family  
and just come over and and visit grandma because she gets very [disoriented]  
she's ninety two  
oh i think that's wonderful  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was just going to say  
yeah  
um  
yes  
uh i think it's wonderful these these places that aren't nursing homes necessarily  
but they can go and [reside] there like little apartments   places in between places  
and i like that idea if they can handle it themselves  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
nursing homes  
visit  
uh_huh  
they don't go and see them  
that's right  
that's right  
you know um i i think nursing homes are are um some are good  
i have to say that  
but for the most part i truly believe that the parents would be better if they were with the children  
um  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
i hope so  
you know it's i think it's very difficult in the first place to make that choice   to have them go there  
and then if you find out that they are not having good care you know i'm sure that it is just   you know you'd pull them out of there so fast  
and uh and yet if you didn't feel like you could be a good caretaker i don't uh  
it's a very very hard decision i think  
uh_huh  
i think that's right  
and especially if you're not a person that is like a medical person maybe or something that the person needs medical treatment  
now i know a friend of mine who had a father uh she brought to her home uh to live there  
but he needed the medical treatment  
and she had a nursing person come in like three times a week to to help him out  
and that might be a partial solution   or something  
but um i personally am for the trying it at home caretaker part before i think i'd ever  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i think we kind of are along the same lines  
good to hear from you  
have a lovely day  
what is it about nursing homes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh it's very difficult  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
how old is she  
uh my see my father is ninety two  
and still uh he and mother still live at the house and drive and   and do the whole thing  
but you know if something would uh whenever something happens to one of them then   i don't know what i'll do up there  
i i just know that too many horror stories about nursing homes  
and so  
they're in missouri  
and i could i i know i know stories for sure that they just they they just well they can't take the proper care of them   most of them  
and uh it's it's tragic that you know when people live so long that they uh don't have a really don't have a place to go  
so  
right  
yeah  
there's one very close to where my parents are  
but uh i think it would be nice  
but my dad's the type he wouldn't want to spend the money on anything  
so uh i mean he's from that old depression era  
and uh you know it's oh it's just [blissfull] that they're both   able to do everything for themselves  
i would imagine that i'll uh if something happens i'll move one of them or you know in in with me  
so uh  
but i know a lot of people have said that and then find out how tough it is  
and but i think you'd have to really  
they also wanted us to talk about you'd have to really check on the uh   on this homes  
but i just don't know how much you can see when you go for a  
i think you just have to drop in all unexpectedly a lot  
and so many people when they put people in the nurses home they never see them  
they never go to see them  
i've talked to many uh owners of places and say that nobody even  
maybe maybe christmas  
uh_huh  
right  
oh i do too  
or if if they could be real real nearby where they could see them everyday or so  
uh because i know governor richards is really upset about what she's finding in the nursing homes uh regulation in texas  
so maybe we'll get it improved  
so  
anyway  
right  
oh it's tough i'm sure  
oh  
right  
that would be devastating i'm sure  
so  
it is a tough decision  
and it's one that needs a great deal of thought   and prior probably  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i would hope we could do that   and then go from there  
well anyway  
we've covered a little bit  
and uh it's good to hear from you  
and  
have a good  
have a good  
um i don't  
i am only twenty eight  
and i haven't had much experience with nursing homes  
i don't i have never visited any of them  
and uh i don't think i've ever even been in one  
have you  
uh_huh  
and it it takes a lot of care  
like twenty four hours a day someone   has to be   well there's someone in my my fiancee's family  
his grandmother too and they're that her son his uncle whatever you know anyway  
he he has he's recently retired  
and so he's the one who she moved in with when she had a stroke  
and and all the other children are working or whatever  
they're all my parents age  
and uh so he's got you know his retirement though is really twenty four hours a day  
they have a day care two days a week  
they call it senior citizen day care  
but she goes in the senior citizen center  
so he gets a break two days a week  
but it's only for like two or three hours at a time  
and you know just you see a lot of things like you you know was a great golfer and wanted to play golf when he retired  
and you know that a lot of the things he thought he would do when he retired he's not able to do now  
but he refuses to consider any other  
i don't  
yeah  
and is that how your parents feel  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know at this  
i know i feel like i would never do that with my parents either you know  
but i i really feel bad for the people i see not very  
i'm not really really experienced  
but like i said i just have that one family  
and i just really feel bad for the guy who his whole life is different now  
and than he thought it would be  
but  
yeah  
and he's got you know seven brothers and sisters  
and and uh he's the one because he's the one that isn't going to work every day and that she moved in with when she needed to move in with someone  
and  
oh well that's great  
that's a good idea  
we ought to  
yeah  
and maybe when the other brothers and sisters retire or whatever i don't know what they're going to do  
it's really not my family  
it's my fiancee's  
so i don't i can't say much  
but i always feel like i would never put my parents in either  
and i wonder i'm going to be the only [sibling] that isn't going to have children  
so if my parents do need to live with someone it will probably be with me because all my brothers and sisters will be having teenagers around and everything to care for   you know  
and i'm i  
that's fine with me  
my fiancee and i both figure that's what's we're going to end up with both of the parents or whoever  
if  
you know what i mean  
we feel like   it's our responsibility  
and i feel like i would never put them in a home  
but i wonder how much you know if one of us is going to have to quit work someday or retire early or something  
you think about it  
and it's really  
i don't know  
this country kind of takes the worst care of the elderly of any other country  
and   it's really more of a um like a respect issue that the older older people in other countries that i've been to seem to really have a lot more respect for the elderly people  
and and they really seem as wise  
and and in this country nobody really   yeah nobody really pays attention  
and they oh the old timer made with the old way  
and nobody respects the traditions  
and you know it's i  
i'm not saying that i do either  
but   you know it's just funny  
and and we really don't have any that don't have the social security  
and everything really isn't that much   for elderly people to live on  
you know even if they're in good health it's incredible  
they don't have any  
they don't get special treatment and maybe they should you know   because we're all going to get old someday  
and so it's a it's kind of a depressing topic though  
how old are you  
so it is yeah and it must be rough for you too to see your grandmother  

um actually i have um i've i've been in them but um just visiting  
and uh we used to when we were like in in our teen ages  
we'd go on sundays and visit you know the older people  
but um i have an elderly grandma that lives with us  
and she's lived with us for like five years  
so i kind of know how it is to how to decide if you want to put somebody in a rest home  
or um like we i mean we've had those discussions you know about should we put her in or because she's pretty senile  
and  
yeah  
it's  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
right  
to put her in a rest home  
um well see it's more my grandma that feels that way  
she says that when her husband died that he said oh that my uncle had said that he would never put her in a rest home  
so it's kind of uh  
i don't know  
i mean i don't i don't think my parents would  
but she is getting pretty bad  
like she has to have like a little toilet right by her bed  
and   it's  
and my mom has to take care of her pretty much  
so it gets  
i don't know  
it's it's a hard decision  
but i don't think i would do it to my parents personally  
when he retired  
yeah  
it's like that good for us just because my uncle and my and my mom switch off like we have her for three months  
and then he has her for three months  
so that   that works out good  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you think  
i i   i'm not really familiar with how other countries  
they're seen as senile  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i know  
um i'm twenty  
yeah  
it's   it really is  
but and she she drives us  
okay  
have you faced uh elderly care yet uh nursing home care for any of your parents  
uh_huh  
yes  
i think sooner or later uh  
both my mother and my husband's mother we had to end up putting in nursing homes  
and they were to the point that they only lived both of them about six weeks once they got in  
and uh_huh  
and it's absolutely i believe that was one of the hardest things i ever did   in my life  
i that it just you know it's absolutely devastating  
what have you found in dealing with the nursing homes  
yes  
um uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
no  
uh there well there's a little bit of difference in in the two between my mother and my mother in law  
and uh theirs both ran  
oh i think my mother in law's was like fifteen hundred  
and my mother's was two thousand  
then this has been five years ago  
and uh   uh one of the things that you know i had discovered is that if they knew that i came in there at all different hours they got much better care than if  
when i started out with my mother in law because she was in there first i   would go certain hours  
and they knew  
and if i'd pop in unexpectedly i discovered you know they did a little bit they did better  
you know uh_huh  
and you know a couple of times with my mother in law i would catch something not being taken care of   and you know would have to rate  
so i got to where i knew then when my mother was in that you know not to go the same time all the time   because they would  
and when i was looking for the nursing homes another thing that i learned uh  
we had my mother all set to go into one  
and for some reason i just went back and on my own went around the different floors  
and i saw areas that they had not shown me  
and they did not come across as well   as you know what they had originally shown me  
so uh we did not put her in that one  
we put her in another one that i i went a couple of times   when they weren't expecting me and saw and you know was much uh better pleased   with the situation  
yes  
you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
does your mother have alzheimer's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did she know that she was going to a nursing home  
did she know that she was going to a nursing home  
uh_huh  
unfortunately yes  
uh in fact tonight i had the dinner with uh my three brothers and our wives  
and we were talking uh  
we had a review with the nursing home staff  
my mother's in a nursing home  
and uh we had a review today  
and a few things we had to do that are part of it that you don't really like like uh making decisions on living [wills] and   extended care that type of thing  
so yes  
i'm very familiar with it  
and it's not something that is uh you know  
i never thought i'd have to go through this kind of experience  
but i guess we all do  
oh really  
uh_huh  
right  
well they're not every all the horror stories you hear about them i think are true  
uh we've you know we've looked around  
and my wife has looked at extensively at all the ones in the area  
and the one she is in now uh there's a lot of drawbacks a lot of things we don't like  
but again it's no different than every one  
and you know the cost of it the three thousand dollars a month  
when you think about it for what you're paying a hospital for   almost the same well even not as much care  
it's not that expensive really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i'll be darned  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you you know this is the whole point  
you've got you've got to shop them  
i know my mother's in now in a unit that's mainly alzheimer's  
and uh we're convinced that she probably would be better off in a geriatric  
uh the fact that these people are they're up and around  
but they're they're it's reminds me too much of an asylum type   situation  
and it's very very  
she  
well who knows  
they call it uh [dementia]  
and uh we don't know  
i i mean she does not know us anymore  
and whether it's alzheimer's or what it is   nobody really knows  
but it's basically the same  
and her health is not that bad  
although she has gone down downhill drastically since this this last  
well she had been in a retirement community  
and somewhere in the back of her mind she had it that she would live with her children  
well   she we we just did not have the capabilities to to take care of her  
and uh but she she has gone down steadily since she has been in  
and she's been in the nursing home now for oh i would say about three months  
and  
i'm sorry  
she  
no  
as far as she knew she was going to a hospital   and that she could she could handle a hospital  
and we says you know mom if you you know if you get a you get better you've got to have the care the doctor [insisted] on it you know if you get better that you could come out  
okay  
well carolyn the uh one of the main things i'd like like to know is uh how do you feel about the knowing about the environment of a nursing home before you would send someone there to live and so forth  
what do you think would be required and so forth  
oh you knew of the homes then  
you knew of the homes themselves  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
well from your point of view how would you feel about actually sending someone that that's you know means something to you to one of those homes  
i realize that you indicated you wanted to check out as much as you can about it  
and of course that makes sense  
but how do you think they would feel i should say about moving from where they have lived most of their life into a whole new new home situation  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well how do you find that your your personal relationship is with her know that you're both together all the time and you are having to do a lot more for her than normal  
does that does that cause any problems between the two of you  
uh_huh  
is she  
it's hard to accept the fact that you're unable to pursue life at the level that you did before  
isn't it  
yeah  
it is different  
i had that almost similar situation  
my mother lives in an apartment with my sister  
and uh so i except for the three or four months this summer  
that's the only time i ever spent with my mother  
and of course since i see her only once or twice a year i was just thrilled   to have her here with me  
and i spent every minute i could to be with her and uh cooking foods for her you know just to make her her life as though she were on vacation  
but somehow another it that doesn't work between my mom and my sister  
and they they find they they are  
in speaking they  
i don't know  
my mother feels uncomfortable around my sister  
and my sister's uncomfortable because her mother's there  
and i guess it's just because they're there all the time  
so it's it puts has put pressure on both of them from that point of view  
so that's that's kind of bad news  
and by the same token my wife's mother is now moved into a nursing home  
and after all she has been a farmer's wife for sixty years  
and now all of a sudden she's had to move off of her farm into another home where the environment is totally different  
she's relatively happy  
but she doesn't like the food  
and when she complains about the food   then they kind of get angry with her  
so that's another one of those things you have to solve  
yeah  
after all their their life is so totally different  
because in those early days the food they had to make it from scratch so to speak  
i mean you raised your own chickens  
and you killed your own [hogs] i suppose  
and then they   they had to store the meat in uh  
i don't want to say [barns]  
but they had regular little places they they would hang it you know   to cure it and so forth  
and and now all of a sudden it uh comes in differently  
it tastes differently  

well  
uh i'll tell you  
i i watched what went on um with the twenty twenty show i don't know if you saw that a few days ago that that talked about nursing homes  
and actually they specifically talked about some in the area where i am here in texas  
and  
pardon  
well i  
no  
i'm not familiar with those homes per se  
but um they were in the area where i live   uh  
and it was really [revealing] to see some of the you know the things that go on i guess in some of these homes  
so i would definitely you know want to really check things out and uh go  
i guess that the big thing would be once you got someone in a home like that to to make sure that you went daily you know   and made sure that they were cared for  
and  
uh_huh  
well actually i have that kind of situation because my mother lives with me  
and she's   eighty seven  
and uh from the time that we were tiny she said you know i want you to promise that you'll never put me in a rest home  
so i know how she feels about it  
you know if i uh   if i ever had to put her there i think uh it would be probably when i just could not handle it any more you know if i   she got to the point where she was totally bedridden and and i mean i just didn't have the skills or the strength to lift her or whatever it needed  
i think that would be the  
uh i wouldn't say any more than usual  
i think it's very hard for her um to be waited upon so to speak  
i mean i think it's hard for her to have that role of not being able to do as much as she used to  
yeah  
i think that's very true  
um on the other hand it takes on almost a a switch of a mother child relationship  
uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's got to be a big adjustment for someone that's as you say lived on a farm for sixty years  
and then go to something like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
well  
well yes  
i do  
uh this is a a question that hit pretty close to home  
i had to go through this with my dad about four years ago  
he was his health was failing  
and uh he was adamant about two things  
one was that i take care of my mother  
and two that he not be put into a home  
and we talked uh about some length  
and i respected his wishes  
he uh stayed at home as long as he could  
and then uh he died in a hospital  
but um i think that my position is that uh you need to find one that you can really have confidence that they are taking care of the of the uh of their clients  
and um because i've heard about the many abuses and because he had heard of so many abuses he just didn't want that  
how about you  
yeah  
almost thirty all over thirty percent isn't it  
uh_huh  
they're captive  
uh we had a at one stage we had care somewhat like like what you're talking about  
we had the visiting nurses program  
and they sent somebody in  
and it it was a a nominal charge that this uh it started out that the lady would come in i think three times a week and eventually got up to the point where they were coming by every day  
they would try to get him to exercise  
they would try to uh you know  
they would check him over to to you know the basic checks  
try to get him to talk and be motivated  
and uh that's what we went through  
uh up to a point things seemed to be working  
and then uh i think he he became discouraged  
and they did not know how to take care of that  
and then um at that point i think it's mostly a psychological problem  
and uh but yes  
i agree there's a lot of options  
there could be a lot of options  
i think it's time that uh we decide to do something about it  
um  
i suppose at one time the church would fulfill this need  
yeah  
the church or [synagogue] whatever   because typically these were close knit groups at one time  
but in today's large metropolitan areas or even in most even even the rural areas now people are not quite as close as they once were  
uh the mobility factor the factor that uh-oh we're living longer and people are less trusting all these things tend to destroy this type of system  
but i agree with you  
there might be some possibilities there  
although dealing with [geriatrics] is something a lot of young people just aren't emotionally prepared to do  
i think they would have to have some training  
do you have uh some strong feelings one way or the other about about the care of the elderly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
well my graduate work is in speech pathology  
and uh so so uh i've thought about this more than once uh you know dealing with  
uh you know i'm concerned we're going to have a geriatric uh population in in twenty years it's going to be you know phenomenal  
yeah  
yeah  
uh and um but i have been amazed  
and and in talking with uh some of my fellow students it looks as though um nursing homes are not going to be the only option any more  
and uh in twenty years uh where a lot of students are hoping uh to work as an in the home type uh uh approach where where the uh where there's you know the speech therapist or whether it's a nursing specialist or someone plans to uh work out of a family's home and take the responsibility away from the family but yet allow the the loved one to stay you know at home   with the family members  
uh it's it's difficult for many families especially in the case of uh of alzheimer's and and uh some of the more [degenerative] diseases to uh say uh uh leave them to have them at home because then the family becomes completely uh  
exactly  
yeah  
and and did did you experience that with your with your father or not  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
definitely  
you know one of the other subjects on the switchboard and this is one that i've been thinking applies here uh where where uh young young kids uh graduating from high school whether they should do a community service type work  
this would be an excellent example of some where uh some place where um the community could be more involved you know more than just leaving it only to professionals  
there is a lot the community the community can do to uh [enhance] the or or [assist] the lives of those who are keeping a loved one at home  
possibly before  
i don't know now  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
i agree  
that's a that's a good point  
well i was just wondering if you had had any experience with um the care of the elderly  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
no  
it's really sad  
it's really a sad situation  
and uh i think a lot of people struggle with  
i   i guess the problem is that the spouse of whoever you know the parent is   doesn't always want the in law living in the house  
is that right  
well that's really sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
well i know when the i remember being a child  
and my grandmother had had several strokes and things and that we had my parents tried to keep her in the house  
and they did for a long time i couldn't   tell you how long until she got uh where she had to have complete care  
and so   they couldn't you know keep her in the house anymore  
and it was really hard on everyone  
she had to have you know twenty four hour a day care  
and i don't remember much about it except that there was a nursing home at that time   just a block or two from our house  
and that um they put her there  
and we all went just constantly until she died  
but it was very hard on everyone to see you know grandmother be like that  
and i don't know that you know i don't being so young i don't remember why   you know what was why she had to go there  
uh_huh  
well i do remember that she was you know totally [incapable] of taking care of herself in any way  
and that that they couldn't they found that they could not   you know give her the [hygienic] care and everything that she needed  
no  
but like you say there is a tendency for people to be abandoned though you know   in the nursing home  
i do remember the other patients there uh being real excited when we came to see our own grandmother because they got some interaction with someone  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and i guess that's hard on people to give give up their lives  
if they're busy they don't you know  
it's easy to abandon people because we do have the nursing homes i guess  
if you can afford them  
but anyway well i'm   glad it worked out good for your family  
yes  
i have  
in fact uh just a little over just a little less than a year ago uh my mother went to be with the lord  
and we cared for her the last oh seventeen months of her life here in the at home   aside from uh having to uh take her to the hospital  
and uh you know those times well she was there in the the regular hospital  
and then she was diagnosed having [inoperable] type of cancer  
and so the doctor elected to have her uh finish out uh in the hospice program  
and uh i as far as i'm concerned that is far and above any nursing home because uh she's around her own you know the the elderly parent in question is around their own family  
the uh hospice program provides a hospital type bed well it is a hospital bed and all the [oxygen]   stuff and a uh and a visiting nurse at least every other day et cetera et cetera et cetera  
and it's all taken care of by by uh medicare uh  
and uh it it's it's really neat uh  
and i you know i wouldn't i wouldn't [banish] uh my old loved one to a to a warehouse  
and that's that's what i basically uh view a nursing home as a warehouse  
so that's  
pardon me  
uh_huh  

oh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i know  
but uh in this case uh spouse and i uh are uh we're are are uh united in this area because   i guess her father her grandfather and grandmother both lived with uh her parents uh their golden years too  
so   this isn't like uh uh just one one uh instance  
in fact uh her uh uh experiences were were [invaluable]   to me  
uh in fact i don't know if i could have uh held up uh you know without my wife uh helping in this   this in this case  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
well maybe well as as you say the care of of grandmother or was was just such that such mom and dad couldn't handle it  
oh boy  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well then then there's almost then there's almost no no uh uh choice left to her then  
uh_huh  
right  
in fact just uh just uh sit and chat with them for five minutes and and be interested in what they have to say   regardless of what it is  
uh_huh  
right  
and then then  
oh yeah  
it did  
and i was just i just praised the lord that that we were able to uh have uh uh  
hello  
hi  
my name is [dolphene]  
i live in texas  
okay  
i work for t i  
do do you also  
okay  
oh okay  
uh you ready to begin  
oh okay  
okay  
yes  
well i don't think that uh any of my relatives would really like to go there  
i i believe if i am in a position uh like when my mother gets to a point where she needs special care that i will be able to just bring her into my home   and my father also and uh or have someone go into their home you know and uh and look after them  
that way  
uh_huh  
right  
it's basically it's more how they feel about it  
and it is like they feel they are uh the way my mother would put it like somebody had thrown them away   you know  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and another thing to think about uh on the positive side of the nursing homes here  
i use to work in one of the offices in a nursing home  
and i got to see a lot of the things that they did  
they uh they had a lot of crafts    
and they had a lot of games  
and uh they get together and just do they they do all sorts of things  
and then there  
some some of the uh the people that are in there are real you know very nice and friendly to everybody  
and uh then there are others that are  
uh it is just a job  
and they just you know   want to go in and do what they have to do and get out go home  
uh the the attitude of the staff as you said is really   very very important  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well it is like the one that i worked in uh you would see some of them just like in [wheelchairs] all day  
they would just roll themselves around all over the place  
and   and they would enjoy enjoy themselves with activities  
and then you would see see some of the others that are were like distant from the other group  
and they they just didn't like participate together with the others   because they had some some uh i guess uh slight mental disabilities and things like that  
what what do you call [alzheimer] disease and stuff like that  
and they don't don't uh they weren't really together with the rest of them when they got together for such activities  
hello  
hi  
my name is pat johnson  
and i live in texas too  
no  
no  
i live in dallas  
i work for the dallas school system  
we might as well  
i understand we are doing care of the elderly right  
and how do you feel about putting someone in the nursing home  
uh_huh  
yes  
i would find it very difficult uh to uh place my father or my step mother   uh in a place like that particularly since i know how they feel about it  
yes  
yes  
i do think that there are some significant kinds of things to to look for you know if you are faced with placing someone   in a place like that uh you know aside from the cleanliness and the medical care that is offered   and such  
but attitude of staff makes such a tremendous difference  
and i have a a friend who is partly [paralyzed] and is in a nursing home   and has no family who you know could care for her  
and uh i know that the cheerful pleasant people who treat her [kindly] make all the difference in the world in how she feels about uh her situation  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it would matter too uh kinds of uh disabilities that the nursing home accepts   because there are some uh who poor things you know don't have uh any real grasp on reality any longer  
and they may be ambulatory  
but they tend to behave like children small children  
and that would be very difficult i think for an adult who wasn't in that situation to to have to deal with on a daily basis  
uh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
[alzheimer]  
yes  
yes  
and that can  
okay  
well why don't you start cause it said i was suppose to ask you what do you  
yes  
i do  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
my mother in law finally  
they had to make a family decision  
there's seven children in my husband's family  
and fortunately four of them live in the same home town  
and she has alzheimer's  
it was getting where she was getting dangerous i mean   letting strangers in and things like this  
but they were very fortunate  
it's a small town  
and she happens to room with one of the doctor's mother's  
and   then she's got a lot of family there and that go and see her all of the time  
but she really doesn't  
nobody thought she would adjust  
but she has adjusted beautifully  
but then i am also facing my father who is very sick  
and my mother and father [reside] in colorado  
she's been taking care of him  
i don't know how much longer this can last  
and at that point because he requires round the clock  
he can't do anything without her  
he doesn't know when to take his medicine  
and it's really sad  
and i have thought if something would happen to my mother for uh  
my brother's are not interested in helping me  
so i would have to move him down here  
that way  
i want to see the nursing home if i have to put him into one  
you know where i can go see it  
i i'd be very uncomfortable with him being in colorado  
and  
yes  
and some of them are limited care too where people can do uh  
like they have apartment styles  
but that wouldn't work for him  
i think he is beyond that  
where if you need help you can get it  
but basically people kind of have a small apartment  
and doctor's are available if they need them  
and allows  
yeah  
yeah  
well the only problem with these are that they are very expensive  
of course i guess all nursing homes there is  
but  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i uh  
yeah  
and i think a lot of people who do it now  
in colorado it's interesting  
i talked to my mother  
they allow you sixty five thousand dollars and your car and your home  
and my mother could make it on that  
what she probably would do is [disburse] the money to me  
and then i would send it back to her  
so that's what would happen  
yeah  
it's unfortunate  
right  
yeah  
it's frightening  
and i guess uh i don't know how old you are  
i'm forty six  
you know we're the generation moving into this  
and i don't know how our kids are going to take care of us   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i also see on my generation a squeeze between looking to having to help my parents and still having to help my son because things are so rough out there job wise  
and he's still living at home  
and i don't know how he is ever going to get on his own the way things are  
and so it's kind of  
you feel squeezed in the middle of having both generations  
but it something will have to change as more and more of us get older  
uh luckily if we could be like your grandmother i uh you know i would love to live to a hundred and two if i were okay  
but   you see these people in their seventies  
yeah  
most aren't  
that's the problem  
that's incredible  
do you have any elderly relatives currently in an uh nursing home now  
do you  
i have a grandmother  
she's a hundred and two  
she'll be a hundred and three in august  
and we decide not to put her in a nursing home  
she lives with my mother and my father who also live here in town  
and then my sister takes care of her  
she even though she is a hundred and two she still has all of her faculties  
she still has her snap  
she takes care of her own business  
this is the first year that she has gotten weak and actually has to have a little walker  
but with somebody that needs around the clock care  
i have seen my family age  
i have seen them in the  
she's been there ten years now  
and i have seen them age twenty   in the time and and with the expense and everything  
i i still think it is worth it if you if you had a good nursing home  
and they needed some quality care  
i would   put someone in a nursing home  
uh_huh  
oh well that's good  
oh that is great  
oh why yeah  
i am sure you have got some really good nursing homes around dallas  
uh_huh  
i i   know a lady that lives in a place similar   to that in austin  
and the bad thing about it before you can get any kind of government help you just practically have well you have to be a [pauper]  
it it takes every penny  
they want you to spend every dime you have   before the government will pay for your your care  
and that's the sad part about it  
uh_huh  
i think that's what most people do  
you just have to give it everything away  
i i work at a [brokerage] firm  
and i have seen so many people that just have to gift you know their belongings   as much as they can each year in [anticipation] of having to move to a nursing home  
i can't imagine  
i'm twenty nine  
and everybody in my family has always had  
we don't have any children  
everybody that has has them later in life  
so my my mother and my father are in their late sixties  
so i mean they're not   that far away  
oh i know  
it  
but yeah  
most people aren't  
and that's the bad thing  
i would hate to have lived so long  
she lived by herself  
my grandfather passed away before i was born so she lived by herself up until she was ninety ninety one   and just did everything  
i'm ready  
okay  
well i don't have an elderly person that i could send to a a nursing home or anything  
my both of my parents are dead  
but i did have a friend that was in a [convalescent] home uh like a nursing home  
and i went there very often to visit her and uh made me feel really sad  
if i did have a mother living i don't think i could do that  
i think they would be better off being at home with their family you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i can believe that  
yes  
because most elderly people can't take having a lot of noise and kids running around and things like that  
in a situation like that maybe it would be better  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
see now that's that's that's really a sad situation  
yeah  
really you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
in a case like that you know you more or less think it would be better if she were in a nursing home because you have your family growing up where  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but the cost of these nursing homes are so   you know  
a lot of people can't afford that  
you know so you really have no choice that way if you you know if you're not rich or you know  
uh i know this lady that you know that was a friend of mine  
now her husband was still alive at the time when she was in there you know  
and it was costing him a small fortune to keep her in there  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
then bring her back home at night  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know just come home for dinner  
and then usually they want to go to bed fairly early anyhow  
you know so that would probably be nice if we could ever get something like that  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if   if they don't know anybody and they don't know what's going on around them and everything like that well i can see maybe a nursing home would be better you know  
but if they they have their wits about them and everything why it's kind of hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh my mother always said she hopes she never had to be like that  
and uh luckily i mean she lived by herself  
and then you know one day she had a heart attack  
and she was gone  
so she never did have to go into a nursing home or anything like that  
but there's so many of us kids there was like seven of us that my we wouldn't have probably allowed that to happen anyhow  
you know she could have taken turns living with each one of us you know for a a a period of time because we all don't live in the same city anyhow nor the same state  
so  
uh i i have a couple more that live out here in california  
but then i have a  
why don't you go ahead and start off  
i agree although we're in that situation right now  
we have a an eighty seven year old mother in law living with me right now  
and because of her circumstances she can no longer live independently  
and even moving from her house to our house   has been tremendously [unsettling] for her  
and we have several young children  
and they about drive her crazy  
well we've you know we've struggled a lot with it because again most of the nursing homes i've been in are very depressing to me  
and she's still alert enough that i think she would really know that we were putting her there  
and i think she would really resent it  
and i think that would make it very hard  
but on the other hand i see my wife with  
i guess our youngest one now is five  
and her trying to struggle because her mother really cannot take care of herself  
she needs to be   [bathed] and dressed and a lot of those kinds of   things  
and so the drain on the family  
and when the kids have kids come you know she's always saying you know why do they have to be here  
why can't they send them home  
it's too noisy  
and   she'll say that to the kids' friends  
so it's a hard situation either way i think  
i think that's one of the things we're really wrestling with  
when does it become detrimental to our family to the point that you have to consider that   as opposed to considering her current circumstances  
and  
oh prohibitive  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we need to develop some alternatives like adult day care   that's more readily available you know  
i think if we could send her someplace for the day   and she could be around some elderly people and have some activities would be of more interest to her   and then in the evening have her return and be with the family  
yeah  
but there's not many of those available right now  
and they're very hard to get them into  
and   we tried sending her to a senior citizen center  
but they're really not prepared to cope with her because she's somewhat senile  
and so a lot of the activities that they're engaged in she can't participate in  
but i think it's an issue that you know  
with the [graying] of america we're really going to have to as a as a country figure out how we're going to deal with this  
because it is a difficult situation  
and you know you hate seeing them just sort of send off and not well cared for  
and yet  
and then i think it depends on their physical ability too you know  
if they could be up and doing some things   it might be better than when they're just sort of needing almost constant supervision and care  
yeah  
do you live at all close to each other  
uh so what do you think uh about putting the elderly in a nursing home  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i never thought of that  
yeah  
that's true  
until they get over that hump   of whatever it is they're dealing with  
yes  
they really are  
they don't like to keep them   longer than a week  
yeah  
what do you mean  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
and it depends on how how sick the person is too what you're capable of like if you have a family to take care of you know of your own  
yeah  
uh i would personally like it  
if my parents were to get ill i would like to take care of them at home and if i had the money with some help  
that's not always possible  
but uh to the best of my ability i'd like to do it until it gets impossible  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
but i think nursing homes can be good  
it just depends on what kind they are  
you know you need to check them out ahead of time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that they're  
yeah  
right  
who know what they're doing with that  
yeah  
well my uh grandmother's not really in a nursing home but a retirement home that also has a nursing home sort of attached to it  
and she really liked the idea of of moving there  
she's not ill yet  
but uh she worked there as a volunteer for about ten years  
and then she decided that uh she's eighty five years old that eventually you know she she doesn't want her family taking care of her and being a burden  
she's very independent  
so she's in this nursing home  
it's out in the country  
and uh she really enjoys it right now because she doesn't have to wash dishes or cook  
uh_huh  
right  
some support  
and then there's also uh sort of a wing for those people that do get sick  
and what i like about it and i think she likes about it is that she knows everybody there now  
and then so if she ever does become ill uh it will be like family around her  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  

uh_huh  
no  
she loves it  
she has a great social life  
and she travels  
and uh it's in in the very in the mountains  
and it's beautiful  
and uh i i hope that i have something like that when i get older  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh definitely it's  
right  
okay  
well i think that it it varies on on the individual basis  
uh sometimes it is there is no alternative  
uh you do not have uh uh family available or family that's uh  
you may not even have family that is uh uh in you know who are around  
so sometimes it's not an alternative  
and i think uh but i think also sometimes it can be uh a benefit if it's for a short time  
sometimes in a nursing home  
uh especially if if it's after an [acute] illness  
to get over a  
or to rehab after uh an illness  
sometimes you know sometimes the nursing homes are good for uh just short periods of time  
uh_huh  
because too often the [acute] hospitals will are sending them out much faster than what they're   really able to  
so   so there is some good to it  
uh sometimes too it's used as a dumb job  
you know the   well the families do not necessarily uh know what to do with them  
and they don't want to take the responsibility  
so they will put them in a nursing home  
so you see uh  
there's both sides to it too  
what do you think  
yeah  
that's true  
i think that's also where you're going to have a lot of people who are going to  
it's there's not a choice it's   because it's not economically feasible even to   put them in a nursing home  
so that that option sometimes is not available if they do not have the uh either medicare or insurance to cover it  
so  
yeah  
and then there's also some that are set up for specialties  
uh i know some  
unfortunately some elderly have to go to or have i guess it's alzheimer's or where   they wonder or or uh confused or have some mental problem  
and you need a special nursing home for that  
you need one that has a unit that's locked where they are not able to get out and roam around  
and you need people who are trained for that type   of problem  
yeah  
so so there's different types of nursing homes i think  
uh_huh  
gives her a little bit of her own independence  
but she still has uh a security there  
that's right  
and i   i've seen some of them like that too  
and also they have a lot of uh activities going on for the ones   who are more active  
so it's not sort of like uh uh   a sick place  
yeah  
i i think i think the uh   i think that the decision that needs to be made though on nursing home has to be a joint one between the uh elderly   uh person who's going in and the family that's going to be uh effected by it  
and uh you know sometimes it can those those choices can be made in advance  
and sometimes   the choices because of the nature of the illness when they're  
okay  
uh before a couple of years ago i had a a very narrow view of of nursing homes  
and it was uh more like a funeral home  
i always [joked] around about it being a funeral home and not really a nursing home  
and uh then i had to do some volunteer work here in tyler texas  
and i went to one  
and it just had a very good activities director  
everyone was cheerful  
and now i don't have such a bad view of nursing homes anymore  
but i i certainly wouldn't want to send my parent unless it was an absolute last resort  
uh i have a sister that is in nursing school  
and she's real interested in [geriatrics]  
yeah  
so uh she she's real interested in uh what ann richards has been doing  
she's ann richards is really cracking down on uh the nursing homes  
and i don't know you wouldn't know anything about a texas governor  
okay  
ann richards is our governor in texas  
and she's really cracking down on restrictions and what goes on in nursing homes  
and uh my sister's real interested in that and and getting into the to that side of nursing  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
and some of the really nice ones that really take care of their people are so expensive because   cause they can afford to hire the people that are really going to care for the older  
oh yeah  
right  
my grandfather passed away several years ago  
i was much younger  
but uh he was in the nursing home the last several years of his life  
and someone visited him every day  
my grandmother did  
but uh if she couldn't someone visited him every day  
it was in a very small town nursing home  
and uh people didn't get paid much there at all  
they didn't care about what went on  
they would let a let a patient get a lot of bed [sores]  
and uh the the people living in the nursing home would have all kinds of needs that wouldn't get met because they were just old people  
and then the nurses and doctors really didn't put any for forth any loving care for them  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and nurses get so worn down  
right  
oh sure  
and they feel   they feel pretty [helpless]  
is it uh like a retirement center  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how's he handling that  
uh_huh  
ooh  
oh sure  
there wasn't anything like that that you could do in florida  
well that sounds good  
i've heard the name  
and that's about all it goes  
yeah  
that's one problem with the the nursing home environment  
it the elderly even out of the nursing home are very open to abuse  
uh you know they don't always have their full wits about them  
they're not completely up on what should be going on or what's not going on  
and it can be pretty sad  
i've got a had a grandmother who had a stroke  
and she was in a nursing home for four or five years before she died  
and you know it's the type of thing that she was living down in florida  
my families was up in maryland  
and the other part of her family was up in uh new york state  
and you know it was very difficult for either them or my grandfather to take care of her since she was uh you know could not do very much for herself after the stroke  
and you know the nursing home was the you know best facility to put her in   you know besides moving her up which is not a practical solution since both my parents work  
and both my uh aunts and uncle work   which means it's you know very difficult for  
you essentially need to have someone taking care of the person full time  
and you know there's also a lot of medical problems that can't always be completely handled in the home   which makes it you know  
it's a necessary evil i think  
yeah  
yeah  
and you know even there you have to watch out for you know  
you get one person who's a little bit dishonest working in there  
and you know the elderly sometimes have a lot of jewelry   and other stuff that just very easily tends to disappear in the nursing homes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
either that or they're just so [understaffed] that they can't afford   to put in the uh care that they need   cause it's you know  
an elderly person can you know  
it's like a [newborn] baby  
you need   to have twenty four hour care   uh answering all the needs cause they can't do much for themselves at certain points  
uh_huh  
and you know there's a lot of number of  
the elderly are very you know complaining because they remember the way that things used to be   and remember being able to do things for themselves which you know they no longer can  
and it very very hard for them to accept that  
we just uh moved my grandfather into not a nursing home but you know a [transitional] type facility  
more of a retirement home  
he's got his own efficiency apartment  
and they provide one meal a day  
and you know the rest of the housekeeping and other meals a day are up to him  
but they do have you know group activities going on  
uh he'd much rather be living alone in his apartment down in florida  
uh you know to move into that facility we moved him from florida up to maryland  
and   it's it's a bit of a shock to the system weather wise if nothing else  
well there was stuff like that in florida  
but  
well i don't know  
my grandfather is ninety two years old  
and he is still living by himself  
my grandmother died a couple of years ago  
but he doesn't want to to move away  
he lives in a little [farmhouse] on a farm  
and he recently had to have an operation  
but he just really doesn't want to go to a nursing home  
well he was until this operation  
he has arthritis  
and now i don't really think he's doing that well  
and my a lot of my aunts and uncles live near him  
and i have one aunt that really looks after him a lot  
but uh my great grandfather was put in a nursing home when he was a hundred and three  
and uh died six weeks after they put him in the home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i just don't think that nursing homes really do a very good job  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i don't i mean  
at least i mean i think some nursing homes do that  
but i think a lot of nursing homes really uh are guilty of neglect  
uh_huh  
well julie uh are you in a situation where you'd soon need to deal with uh special care for elderly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is he able to uh still do everything himself pretty well  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i'm sure that kind of thing would influence your grandfather's feelings  
because uh i you know i think for a lot of people it really is the decision of do they still have some of their life left  
and   and for for i'm sure a lot of people going into a nursing home it's like saying my life is over  
and i'm just here for the rest of the stay  
and so i you know i guess most of the time when i think about somebody going into a nursing home it's more a case of where they are not able to look after their day to day needs  
yeah  
they have can look after a lot of things  
but there's some of the day to day needs that they just are not able to deal with physically anymore  
uh i know my none of my grandparents were in a nursing home  
they generally were able to have someone care for them at home  
and they died  
but they were all goodness younger than your grandparents  
like they were in their eighties that type of thing  
uh but i did uh you know i guess  
uh when i think nursing home i do think of people that are not able to do take care of themselves physically uh  
and that's that's difficult part  
because i think what they often get used as is uh almost like a very high level or long term care for uh similar to a hospital  
uh i know like here in [saskatchewan] we have our hospital care the care actually for the older people graded in level in four levels  
and a level four type of care would be someone that really requires long term hospital care generally are not able to look after themselves to very to a very great extent physically  
often times they even have mental difficulty with [senility] or alzheimer's disease or those or or physical and mental handicaps uh you know where they really require twenty four hour supervision of some kind even though   it may be minimal  
and uh but i think that it can be helpful in that uh it gets people the level of physical care they need uh  
yeah  
i and i think it happens more in areas where it's uh i guess uh a broad social medical system where uh you know there's government medical care and that kind of thing  
if it's the lot where it's funded by the individuals  
and and i guess that's sort of my lack of understanding  
i think that a majority of the places in the u s uh you know there is some government aid available  
but the majority of it is to the availability of the individual to pay  
and uh if you're not able to look after yourself then you have to rely  
that's right  
that's right  
you know what what uh what do you think is important  
if you were  
uh i don't know how how old you are  
but if you had if you had uh parents say or or or grandparents whatever it is uh who were ready   who who you thought might benefit from a nursing home what do you think you would look for  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
well my uh uh my wife's grandmother   is in a nursing home in uh minnesota  
and we go there uh once a year  
we see we tend to see her there cause we're in boston  
so we're pretty far away  
when we visit minnesota though we go to see her  
and it seems uh  
i mean the the environment there i don't know too much about it  
but it it seems nice enough  
uh it it's hard  
at least half of the residents i would say are not not mentally sound  
so it's hard to tell how much of that rubs off on those who are struggling to to retain uh [clarity] say uh you know  
yeah  
well i i i don't know  
we we also my wife and i uh uh volunteer to go to a uh nursing home that's just a mile from our house  
we uh she goes more often than i  
we used to go once a month once every two months to visit some of the patients there  
and we'd take we have a two year old son  
and so we sometimes we'd take him with us  
and uh there i would say it's the same thing  
it's it's a nice uh relatively nice environment  
but again um it must be depressing for the people who who are who are just essentially not able to take care of themselves in their own house but but certainly uh certainly have are have [retained] all of their uh mental skills and so on  
it's must be depressing to to walk walk the halls and see and see all these other people who really don't know where they are  
i think yeah  
i think they're relatively respectful yeah and and concerned that in as much as they can be  
i i think sometimes you know i've noticed uh people asking for uh some of the patients asking for things uh just [repetitively]   and but things that are not reasonable  
and so   at some level the the the uh  
i'm sure that the that the uh the staff learn what's normal for this person  
and so it looks to me like maybe their not catering to this person's needs is really because this person is just you know is just in a state where they don't really need what they think they need you know  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'll tell you one thing though that'll that that i i saw that was really nice  
we saw a husband and wife  
we used to see a husband and wife in there uh together  
and they were in the same room which not all husband and wives were  
but these two were  
and when you walked into their room they had brought all their furniture from their house  
and so  
yeah  
you walked in there  
and it didn't look like uh you know how you you walk into some rooms  
and there's it's completely generic  
there's nothing maybe a picture or two that belongs to that person  
and that's it  
but this room on the other hand you know they got rid of all of the sort of standard issue beds and [dressers] and this and that  
and they had all their stuff from their house  
and it looked like uh it must have been  
it was nicer to walk in there and to talk to them  
and it must also give them a sense of uh uh security and and uh and and you know uh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
temporary  
i  
that that's that's new to me  
i  
right  
right  
bye  
so we're uh our [discussion's] about uh the care of the elderly  
uh well i actually my dad's my dad's almost ninety  
and   he lives by himself  
and he's in good shape  
uh but uh some friends of mine have uh gone through this  
i think i'd look for a home where they got a lot of attention and uh where they did some things to try to keep them um mentally alive   and where there was uh caring and [compassionate] where there were caring and [compassionate] people uh operating it  
do   you have any experience with this yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
from the lack of stimulation you mean  
do you think that in the case of the one that you've actually had some experience with that the people who operate it seem to have what you'd perceive of as genuine concern  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it it's possible  
i was thinking also that there'd be there could be a fair burn out factor   um in just having to respond to people's needs where the needs are sometimes depending on the person not going to be what we would perceive of as rational need  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it   gives them a sense of identity  
yeah  
i i think part of what you're saying matches what i have read  
i used to initially think that the only people who went into such [residences] were people who uh were adequately [deficient] in their abilities uh   physical or mental that they couldn't take care of themselves  
but i also know a couple of people whose parents have gone into such things because i think they provide um a lot of social activities  
uh the one of my friend's parents who went in because she had largely lost her abilities  
and she was in there for awhile when they were away on vacation  
uh and  
well i think it i think it was sort of on the grounds that they were considering whether she would live there  
and i feel like the whole vocabulary of this is very loaded if you think of words like like put her in there  
and there there's so much  
do you know anyone that uh is is in a nursing home or has ever been in one  
uh_huh  
well i'm trying to think  
my uh uh wife's grandmother had alzheimer's  
and they were going to put her into a a nursing home  
and uh they when they put her in she had all kinds of trouble  
and the nursing home made them come and take her back because she was being a a you know a a [nuisance] or worse than a [nuisance]  
i mean   she sort of went you know bananas  
and they couldn't couldn't deal with her  
so i guess you need to uh know whether it's a you know a no deposit no return kind of thing whether  
yeah  
right  
right  
my grandmother actually was in a a nursing home that uh  
there was a retirement hotel and then a uh  
there was some sort of full time care place that was also associated with it  
so for uh the first few years she had her own apartment and you know made her own meals sometimes but could could also go and eat someplace else  
and then uh as she became less able to take care of herself then she moved into this other part that was able to uh provide full time care  
and uh she didn't have to do anything anymore  
but my experience has been that most people that move into nursing homes die very quickly  
and that's  
i don't know whether that's because they you know sort of give up hope once they get in there or what the the reason is  
but i think the average length of time that somebody lives in a nursing home is only like six months or something  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
if if you can take care of yourself at all or have someone that can take care of you then you stay where you are  
then you only go there as a last resort  
or people send you there as a last resort  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i guess  
right  
when you need it you need it   i guess  
right  
yeah  
sure  
and you probably if it were you you probably wouldn't want someone choosing a place for you to live based on lowest price  
yeah  
well maybe that's the purpose of the nursing home is to have them go someplace where they can see that it's not worth continuing  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i've known quite a few people that have uh gone to retirement communities  
i don't know if they have them back there  
but here in california and in  
no  
but i my grandparents were looking into it before  
so i know what they've said  
uh_huh  
oh they thought it was too much of a bother  
right  
if they're equipped too to handle the kind of patients you're going to have   you know put in there too  
because i know my grandparents wanted to have some independence still  
they wanted some place they can go and have their meals and a nurse on staff just in case they needed her  
but they wanted to be independent as well   have their own room  
uh_huh  
well a lot of it's probably to do with the fact that people go to it because they need help  
they need health care  
so they're already ill before they go  
that's probably a large factor  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's what my grandparents  
it was just so that the rest of the relatives would have peace of mind knowing that if anything happened there was somebody there for them  
so that was their thinking  
somebody who would know what to do in the event of an emergency  
and also so they could find someplace that they enjoyed while they still had choices to make   so they wouldn't be stuck going into just whatever nursing home was available at the time  
i guess that's a problem too for people wait lists and all  
that uh  
you can't always get in when you want too  
and of course you can't just sit around and wait  
yeah  
and the money is also another issue how you're going to pay for it  
at that stage of life you only have so much money left  
and i guess it's not exactly fair for the younger family members to have to put it in their savings  
i mean it is kind of fair  
but it's also not fair because they have their own children to raise  
so it's another problem  
right  
right  
so it it's just so complicated anymore i think  
people [outlive] their savings  
and with medicine being the way it is you're [extending] life where sometimes the quality of living has gone down  
and they're not necessarily enjoying life anymore  
it's just a shame that's the way it has to be  
i think   the retirement home [idea's] a nice idea to go and find older people and with similar interests and someplace to stay  
and cause like if your spouse died all alone it'd be nice to go someplace with people similar to you   to have friends  
okay  
well uh just briefly  
uh i worked in a nursing home  
so i kind of know from way back uh how things used to be run  
and i think there has been definite changes of nursing homes  
but i think uh if i had to personally put one of my parents in a nursing home they would have to be pretty bad off to where i couldn't take care of them at all  
it would be something that you know i would certainly  
if they're forgetting things or whatever i'd prefer to have them at home or have them in what they call now home care   where somebody comes in  
and they cook meals  
and they clean their house for them  
that kind of thing  
so they still have their own independence  
and not reliable you know  
they don't have to be in a nursing home situation  
but uh i don't think  
the nursing homes when i was working in them were very much [understaffed] very much uh in need of good personnel uh  
i think the patients weren't given the quality of care that  
i wouldn't have you know  
i look at it and say thank god  
i got out of that kind of situation  
but   they they were not given the time  
and they were not given the money basically to staff appropriately people to help  
and i can remember lifting a patient all by myself simply because there was not another person to help  
it's either leave the patient in bed all day long or get them up  
and i would have preferred to get them up than to leave them in bed all day  
but uh uh so i think nursing homes are have changed  
i'm not quite sure  
but hopefully they have  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
i i think that's that can happen  
and i think in the nursing home that i worked for  
i wasn't quite sure of it  
but i'm sure that some of the patients were uh given medication to keep them in uh quiet  
and and  
yeah  
yeah  
and they would just lay all day long  
and uh the ones  
they also put mentally ill patients in the same  
they were not on the same you know ward  
but they they were in the same nursing home  
so that these mentally ill patients could walk into where the other uh older people that were in there for reasons of uh you know age uh  
the mentally ill patients could walk right in into the rooms or do whatever they wanted to basically  
because if you weren't there to watch them and keep them in their own wing they could they had freedom to just walk around  
and a lot of them were i think there was a couple that were [schizophrenic]  
and i remember one time watching one of the uh [schizophrenic] patients actually go out on i don't know what they call it a binge or whatever you want to say it  
she grabbed a hold of this  
and it was kind of funny when i looked back at it  
but i mean i remember the patient getting very upset  
that woman actually pulled uh the other person's hair  
i mean she just came up right behind him and pulled his hair you know  
and it was a guy that was just really upset  
i mean he said what the hell are you think you're doing you know  
and i laughed at it then  
but then i'm thinking god you know  
if i had to put my parents in that nursing home i wouldn't want them there  
so   i think there's laws now that kind of protect that nursing homes either have to keep the mentally ill totally away from these people and not in the same type of facilities  
even though they're aging mentally ill they are still mentally ill  
and a lot of these older people have their you know they're not insane or anything like that  
they don't have these tendencies to to [lash] out  
but seeing that kind of made me think twice about  
jeez  
i wouldn't put my mother father in that nursing home at all  
a small town  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know  
i don't know  
i i kind of look at it this way  
i think if you have a big city area i think there's more people to keep watch on it  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
and you have more competition  
and i think nursing homes have to be better than when there's one nursing home for a whole community  
and this is back in nineteen seventy seven that i worked there  
and i look back at it and say jeez you know  
it would have to be awfully bad for me to put my parents in there  
but my grandmother uh later on got cancer and uh could no longer  
well actually she  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess i haven't had that much experience  
i've only seen like my great grandparents in a nursing home  
but   i have an aunt who lived on her own until she was well in her nineties  
and then she she got sick  
and she ended up in nursing home  
and my parents went to visit her  
and it got to the point where the it seemed like the nursing home didn't want to deal her anymore  
and so they gave her drugs to keep her asleep  
nice [sedative] state  
uh_huh  
yeah  
to be violent  
was this in a big town or a little town  
oh really  
because it seems like the small town nursing homes there's a   lot more personal attention  
uh_huh  
you have   more options  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh i haven't been in this situation yet  
you know my my parents are not quite at that age yet  
so i haven't  
no  
so i haven't uh really been in that situation although they are thinking about my grandmother  
but uh   but that's really about it  
how about you  
have you been in that situation yet  
uh_huh  
did it really  
yeah  
oh no  
that's sad  
yeah  
oh okay  
i'm sure they were  
yeah  
uh_huh  
ah  
yeah  
oh  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i'm sure it's it's expensive  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my my grandmother is not in a nursing home  
but she's in a  
oh they're like uh they're apartments for senior citizens  
and she loves that because they arrange activities for them all day long  
and then they have uh where the bus picks them up and takes them where they need to go  
and she she she really does love that  
but she's just concerned about in the future you know   that she she knows it's not going to be like that all the time  
and she's just wondering well   what's going to happen to me  
and and i  
you know it's i guess it's so normal to start to wonder about that even if she doesn't need that  
but   you know  
she's kind of asking questions about what well what's going to happen this can't last forever  
and so  
yeah  
yeah  
she can  
but i i think it is also cafeteria style because i i really i i i doubt if she rarely cooks for herself   so uh  
because i i remember her in her letters telling me she'll go downstairs for coffee or something to eat  
so i'm assuming it's something like that too  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and she lives by herself too  
she seems to like it  
and uh my husband's grandmother is  
well she lives she lives in a house on her own  
and she doesn't really need the care or anything like that  
but she has her own home  
and she's doing really well  
i'm really proud of her  
she's doing really well  
so we haven't had to do anything  
but then again she has a lot of support  
so   i mean she's got her mother in town too and things like that  
so   hopefully we won't need to go that route  
yeah  
they're not quite elderly huh  
uh_huh  
uh not for my parents  
but i i was around uh two sets of grandparents uh quite a bit  
we we put one i put one grandfather in a rest home  
and that killed him  
well yeah  
kind of  
well there was some other things involved  
but it  
before he was really active  
and the  
there was some  
you know he lost his drivers license  
and i couldn't get around and wasn't able to do some things  
and so we ended up just having to put him in a rest home  
and he just kind of became a vegetable and died  
so   but that was a long time ago  
that was uh back in like seventy three  
so uh i think the way they did things were a lot different back then  
and uh my grandmother his his wife   uh we also put her in a rest home  
she was in a rest home  
and then she was back out because she didn't really need to be there and uh had a physical had a good physical therapist at that place  
and   they worked with her and got her walking and got her kind of taking care of herself  
and so   she was able to come back home  
and   then she had to go back in a couple of times  
but mostly it was just because she kind of gave up  
and they got her going again  
so i guess as far as looking  
i said as what you're looking for i think you need to look for an active uh an interactive staff   somebody who is willing to work with uh you know work with a patients and do   do things with them and treat them treat like they're  
it it is  
it is expensive  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when she can't take care of herself  
uh_huh  
now  
uh_huh  
does she have a  
is it like a kitchenette type apartment where she can fix her own food if she wants to  
or she can go down to the cafeteria  
uh_huh  
in fact i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i really like that concept  
they've they have a few of those well quite a few of those places like that here in utah  
and you know couples can  
you know husband and wife can can live there too or or whatever  
i  
and and then and yet they have their their friendships and relationships and the you know of getting together and eating together and all of that  
i i think it really takes uh you know looking more at the people than even really the facilities  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
well i i think that that's the thing that's a little bit scary you know a little bit tough about putting them in a rest home is it's it's almost like  
that you know they say putting them out to pasture  
and some some of the people that were there with my grandmother were really active  
they they wanted to do things  
they didn't you know they didn't want to go down and play bingo or uh you know play with the oranges  
um what is your experience been with
but do you have elderly relatives that live with you or have lived with your parents or something like that
uh_huh
oh gosh
and they gave it to her anyway
we had my grandfather had alzheimer's disease
and my grandmother kept him at home as long as she could
actually my parents and my uncle and aunt who tried to convince them to go into like an old age community
where he could have gotten care
and she could of had help with somebody cleaning and things like that
and she refused she she just didn't want to do it
she felt uh
i don't know maybe too much guilt or something
uh_huh
and so eventually they were forced to put her in one
yeah
well my grand father you know eventually completely lost
control type of things i i mean i don't know if he ever really got violent
but they put him in a nursing home
and actually the problem that they had with him was more with the hospital the the nursing home you know some day he had a fever or something
so they sent him to a hospital which is what they seem to routinely do which i think is ridiculous too
you know because they might not be really be sick
and at the hospital
they um did an [electrocardiogram] and decided that he had a heart problem
and uh you know
you know he was very old he had alzheimer's he had been like a vegetable for a year
and the hospital said oh we have to put in a [pacemaker] and you know wanted to approval for the it and all this sort stuff and eventually you know the whole family is in an uproar discussing it
and some of these
said well yeah
they should do it and others said it's ridiculous this man's you know his body finally wants to die just let him die
and um eventually the at the they said no to the doctor
and they found out
it wasn't even his [electrocardiogram] it
it was some other patient you know by the time he had been sent back to the nursing home and under care there
but
oh
it's horrible
but
sometimes you just can't keep the person at home
they're just you know
oh
i felt went to visit my grandfather one time in the nursing home
and i said never again i said i just can't go
uh_huh
but i had a cousin of mine that was in a different nursing home which was sort of nicer
you know
and until really close to the end
she was able to go out and take walks and things
and they took her outside and in some ways i think it might of even been better or i say cousins like my grandmother's cousin but i had been really close to her
and it's only the thing for her
it might of even been better because she used to live in an area that when she moved down there was mostly elderly people
well not you know it was like a community of apartments that were mostly elderly when she moved there
she might have been like sixty it wasn't you know like ancient
but you know older and then that community for some reason started getting the apartments were fairly low income i guess
and started being bought out by families and things
and she instead of having fewer and fewer friends
and people just she she she used to say to me at when she was ninety two or something at the time
say um you know i just i all my friends have died off
i have nothing to do
i'm bored
you know i walk over to the store
i walk back someone comes and picks me up and brings me to the community
and so when she went to a nursing home in the beginning i think she kind of liked it
she did art work there she did
it was almost a progressive type nursing home
uh_huh
yeah
then you just can't get
better
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm sure
does the medical care in nursing is typically less than in
but
are they supposed to give as much help as you know a
jeez
uh_huh
at the second one oh my
that's
horrible
had they checked into these nursing homes much before they put her in it
or they just sort of
i mean i it's sometimes hard to even get places in there
you're lucky if you get a spot
uh_huh
oh so you probably don't have too much choice
uh_huh
but really it's pitiful
often times i've gone into nursing homes where you know they have like a central area where they take the people to and all
you do is just sort of sit there like
you know almost like they're mentally retarded patients or something
and some of them you know they're just sort of sitting in the wheelchair and sleeping or whatever
and it's it's heart breaking you know
and i i feel like you know what have i moved into and and they're you some of them i think just needs stimulation
yeah
well i've never been to a mental hospital
right
like you expect from the movies of mental hospitals like uh
oh gosh
yeah
because the i mean the poor man too
he could get really cold he could
that's crazy
but i think
they're almost
i mean i can't imagine working in a nursing home like that i'd be there because it must be so
depressing
but you know when i see them
i don't know that i could you know when i think of my parents who fortunately shouldn't be close to getting there yet
but i don't you know i think of having to make the decision as to put them into a place like that or not
it's horrible
i guess i would try and have somebody at the house as long as they were
healthy enough
but sometimes they're not i don't know
are you you know where have the old days gone where people just sort of died of something in their family houses and they're you know people are [stabbed] and it's not just torture uh_huh
uh that's interesting because it's my mother's parents
well actually my father's parents both of them sort of you know they just died of something um
but my grandmother you know in my grandmother's case which is very sad
she fell she came into new york to visit
and she fell at the airport going
down some steps and spent you know six months in the hospital
but it is was still it it it wasn't you know the same as a nursing home type of thing
yeah
no
that was that was horrible
it was
and she never even got to see her family that she came into visit
they
no
they came to the hospital
but i mean she came in
no
no
she came in for a [pleasurable] visit and fell and cracked her [skull] open and that was sort of
it was terrible
but um my
it was really just my grand father i guess
and this one elderly cousin of mine that went into nursing homes
but it's just a scary thought every time i certainly don't want to be like that some day
okay
uh not with my parents although my parents are now in their early seventies
and uh fortunately they have to this point been very physically healthy and very self sufficient
and they really look after themselves
and i think considered what they want done as they get older and may be less able
well the
it's more that they have when they retired
and we are from south dakota
so they retired from the rural farming community into [sioux] falls which is the biggest city in the state
and set themselves up near medical facilities
and i i can not say that i can tell you what they have decided as to okay
because i think some of that is that maybe you think ahead somewhat
but you do not uh book those
facilities
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well have they do they recognize the coming and try to make the decision themselves
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that is one of the options that uh that is so related to the family situation of the children
and uh you know i guess not that it has happened in our case in my family because it well i have seen it in their generation it what you do is first see your parents go through it with their parents
and i would say at this point
um you can say i have been through all that because i have no no grandparents left uh
and it's you see all the different options
and you see that they all can work uh
uh_huh
well if they are uh that's the thing if they are physically able it is a much more pleasant more caring uh situation to be in the home of one of the children
uh the other side of that is that if the children are no where near where the uh parents had spent their life then in a sense you you have no friends at the new place
uh in this that you are unless that you develop new friends and uh the best thing is kind of a combination where uh the at least one of the children if not several are uh uh back in the area where the parents uh had spent their years and then yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
well it's uh it's not an easy choice because it's uh
but it's something that we all face
and we uh
yeah
but the way society changes it makes it so that uh what was acceptable for our parents and their parents may not be as workable for us
it it's certainly a problem as we as people live older of course as long as you can live a healthy life uh the uh the care is is not near the issue it becomes when you start having the physical problems
yes
okay
do you have anybody uh in your family that you ever had to put in a nursing home or
yeah
was that here in texas
right
did did you have to put her in yourself or
i understand understand
well my uh aunt that i kind of grew up with uh was in a nursing home she did have alzheimer's and we had to put her in the nursing home because of that
but uh
this was up in uh milwaukee wisconsin
and uh it was a situation that's probably as good as you're going to get uh it's associated with uh our church
and uh what they do my mother is in is a [terrace] which it's called [terrace] and uh these are condominiums you buy into when you know whenever you know you're sixty or whatever you know whenever you want to buy into this thing
and these are very nice condominium things
and uh the idea is once you are in this program you are taken care of the rest of your life
and they they have a nursing home
if you can't maintain your own apartment or your condominium uh you automatically go into that
and from there
they also have a health care area if you can't you know if you need more intensive care
and uh even the best there is isn't a nice situation with uh like you say when you get to the point where uh well she was ninety four and she was uh in the nursing home
and the health care facility for
i would guess about a year's time
but uh it's a hard decision to make
i tell you it's uh
that's that was really the and that it gets very hard
and on
anybody uh i'd go up there and visit and and she would recognize me
but as soon as i was out down the hall she didn't even know i was there
and uh it's it's sad you know it
yeah
well it's
but what's really hard is the differences of care you know if you aren't fortunate enough to have a situation like with my mother right now she's got terrible arthritis in her knees
and it's probably not real long where she won't be able to you know get along on her own
and she probably you know hopefully it will be a number of years
but she's seventy nine years old
right now
and now she understands that someday you know if she can't handle her apartment that uh you know she'll have to go in the nursing home
but if you have situations where you don't have that kind you know it's
you're confronted with it
and if you look at all the different nursing homes uh that are out there
it it is kind of frightening some of these places uh it's like put them in a [cubbyhole]
and you know they don't they're they're more caretakers kind of it's almost like putting a dog in a kennel you know
some of these places
they stink
and they're it it's a tough decision
and you know if people don't have the resources for uh it's i i don't know about in arizona
but around here
i understand it's it's anywhere from about twenty three hundred to three thousand dollars a month in a a nursing home
right
yeah
well and that's the other thing that helps is that you have a relative a close relative that will look in on them
okay uh
okay
one of the things they said about how you feel about putting an elderly person in a nursing home
um i've had that situation presented to me personally about three years ago when i had to put my place my dad in a nursing home
and um he had alzheimer's and he uh wandered and i had to put him in there for his own safety because i could not i couldn't care for him here any longer
i tried as hard as i could
yes
and uh i had to work
and he would get up in the middle of the night
and he could get out and wander down the street and i was afraid for his safety
um
and so i had to make that decision um
yes
i did
i checked into the facilities the other thing that i did
and i recommend other people to do this same thing
sometimes is to check and with people that have family members in that nursing facility you know see if you can find out who who has a family member there or if you go
and check it stop and ask somebody when you see them you know
do you have you know what relative
do you have here
uh how is the care are you satisfied um
it took me quite a while to choose
yes
very much so
there was a large range of costs uh and the cost didn't necessarily reflect the care the cost some of the costs went for other amenities for those that were uh up and ambulatory like really nice dining rooms and you know uh things like that
but that was for one segment but then the other segment that needed full nursing care
i didn't feel i got the benefit of the extra cost
uh_huh
right
and you would want the maybe the uh extra amenities you know like the very nice dining room and you know the freedom of the grounds to be nice
so they can walk out there
and you know activities she would
uh organized activities and things like that
right
yeah
each state is different
but uh here in texas
there are certain you know requirements
some of them
yes
there was a waiting list
um in fact i had one when i first started i went through a series of see i had my dad in two different nursing homes when i first started he was in one that wasn't total total patient care
but where he could be watched
but he had the freedom to wander around and and help caring for himself
but he could do you know he could feed himself he could do things for himself
um and i had him on a waiting list there then he got so that he they could not handle him at that level
and they didn't have a higher level at that facility which i really didn't think of you know when i checked him in uh so then i had to go and i had to start all over again
uh medicaid will under certain circumstances medicare will again under you have to be [discharged] from the hospital and for so many days uh medicare will like i said under certain circumstances
my dad did not was not eligible for medicaid and medicare would not cover alzheimer's
so that
yeah
it almost goes by case by case
it is
it it does
and
well how do we feel about the nursing home
right
um i have a dad eighty nine years old
and uh he has [parkinson's] and there are three of us children my sister brother and i
and we decided that we could not live with him going to a nursing home
and so for two years we took turns my brother and i live here
my sister lives in [longview] going back and forth up there helping her she has him in her home
and uh we just decided we couldn't put him in the nursing homes
but i decided i couldn't keep on with that
and now she won't put him in the nursing home
i think she's getting close
but the problem with these nursing homes is the cost
and uh he has a house and since he has a house
it would cost oh i don't know something like two thousand dollars
i think to keep him
and uh uh i really need to know more about it
oh
ooh yes
yeah
is she still mobile though
oh really
right
they become a vegetable more or less
and uh they don't they sedate them
and forget them
uh_huh
well it really is
uh my dad can't even feed himself and um he still you know has his pretty his mind pretty much
and that's why we can't put him there i guess if he didn't have his mind you know it would be easier to do that
but
yeah
well hopefully
they're going to clean these things up
i don't that they will
right
yeah
i guess one problem that they're having in these homes is is help
they don't have enough help to go around
yeah
i have a friend here that i think her mother's like ninety seven or something
and uh she's been well pleased with the care of course she goes every day
and i think as long as you go every day to see about them they get better care
uh_huh
yeah
right
well i do
you know anything about the um qualifications uh i mean of knowing qualifications of the nursing homes
uh_huh
no
no
they're really not
and i think as long as they're is a family member to go in and see about them they get better care
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
well that's kind of the way my dad was when he had to leave his home he he left my home and went to my sister's and of course you know as far as
hi
hi [bridget] i'm [gunner] i'm here in dallas
oh you are
oh okay
oh okay
yeah
sure am
okay
well uh i think there uh you know need to have uh some some means of taking care of them in a in a reasonable
and uh uh i guess respectful way
and uh it's uh i guess my biggest problem is that uh they seem to
uh be you know put in nursing homes and just forgotten about
that's
you know
have you uh ever spent much time or worked around one or anything
oh yeah
is there uh uh well shoot i guess there's no uh medicare i don't think pays for it
uh um i don't know it's just the whole thing is just kind of amazing to me
uh
uh_huh
yeah
and a lot of other countries though uh uh you know basically like family takes them
and uh i guess take them for as long as they are
you know as long as they live
well i yeah i do too
um
especially now that all the you know everybody is getting older and living longer
and uh
you know it's it's there's going to be more and more folks
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
um yeah
that is uh that's difficult i tell you
uh_huh
yeah
yeah um
yeah
it sure is
i know like uh uh lot of places it's like hundred dollars a day
you know
i know
but uh
is it
i don't even know
yeah
no
not really my parents are still pretty young
my father is forty five mother about the same age
yeah
um so it really hasn't been an issue for me
how about yourself
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
have they done anything with uh supplemental insurance for that
or
uh_huh
yeah
well i've heard about this uh insurance
i was wondering because it seems like what i've heard is usually that is uh kind of thing where they cancel you a couple of years after you get into the home
so it tends to be kind of useless anyway
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
i know it seems to me that for the kind of money a nursing home typically costs you can maybe even afford to to have a nurse come into the home periodically
yeah
dollars a year at that point you know
it seems like you could hire somebody part time
yeah
certainly more [dignified] than uh than warehousing them
right
yeah
it's it's kind of scary because it seems like uh you know a lot of people you know have the budgets of these places has gotten so tight
and uh you know they just really can't take care of them very well the budget and staffing especially if it's state run
uh_huh
yeah
it seems like every time i see something on television
it's not good
yeah
yeah
it seems that way
yeah
i sure do
they're they're pretty healthy everybody in my family seems to die when they're they're in good health
but they get to be like seventy or eighty and all have [aneurysms] just drop dead
yeah
i think you know that's pretty good way to go
i'd be happy
yeah
that's the worst part um seems to me that a lot of times people wind up in nursing homes who tend to survive major things like strokes or uh heart attacks that sort of thing
and then you know they can't really help themselves
so they have to be cared for
right
yeah
i mean it seems like they'd almost just doing better off just withholding care to some some degree
yeah
yeah
well it seems to me it's a little bit easier with the elderly because you know at least they've lived a life and
yeah
yeah
it's something it's something like fifty percent or greater of all health care expenses are in the last five years of your life
so
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
seems like uh unfortunately many of those people who are put through those if they'd uh let their wishes be known ahead of time frequently they wouldn't have been interested in [heroic] measures and if that's the case then
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't know
my wife's a medical student
and uh you know it's a journal of the a m a
and the american medical news thing
and it seems like that physicians unless they're in writing or video tape or something
you couldn't take care of her anymore huh
yeah
that's
rough isn't it
uh_huh
wow
yeah
that's really hard my grandma is uh just turned ninety
and she's still on her own
and she's down in phoenix
and i don't know what we'll do when she can't take care of herself her her son my dad is dead
and she has a daughter my aunt uh who lives in another state
but uh she
uh well i'm the uh yeah
i'm my sister and i are the are her only grandkids
so i don't i don't know what's going to happen with her
but she's amazingly strong uh
yeah
but i don't know
i guess uh most of us uh probably end up there sooner or sooner or later
oh my gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
boy that's amazing
that's a lot of stress
uh_huh
uh_huh
amazing
uh_huh
every night
wow that's dedicated
oh i see
huh
yeah
it's a tough emotional uh issue
yep
yeah
that's tough
uh_huh
uh_huh
[whoo] i remember one time i was uh in a mexican restaurant here in seattle
and uh i i was sitting alone in this booth reading and eating
and i overheard some folks in the next booth who i think some of them worked at the restaurant they were a little younger than me
and they were talking about the differences between
i don't know whether they were from mexico or or but they were you know
definitely latin american
they were talking about the differences between uh how uh our country cares for old people
and what it was like back home
yeah
and they were just appalled that anybody could put somebody in a you know in a rest home
yeah
they weren't course they weren't talking about uh where you know you're absolutely unable to care for them
but it was it
you know they would come from large extended families where you know the the old people were uh were at home
yeah
and uh most people don't want to live that way
today in this country
yeah
god yeah
i don't know
i
and i've been single so long
i don't even know if i could handle living with a wife
i'm probably [incorrigible] yeah
yeah
i do have actually as a matter of fact uh and i'm i'm not sure how it would relate to the big city
but there are certainly ways and humane and nice ways of handling care for elderly i come from a very small community in northern iowa
and the churches have [banded] together and built and staffed a retirement home
and the care of course is is wonderful
because these are all people who care
and every week
the churches a different uh groups of the churches volunteer and come in and maybe have bingo day or special celebration day or help somebody with their birthday or whatever
and it makes the care very [personalized] of course
but since it is a small community
everybody knows everybody
and so there there would be absolutely zero chance of any abuse
yeah
it's it's a real problem uh it is a real problem
and i know that everybody hates the idea of going to one of these but i also think that it is a choice that we have all made in our lives as we have drawn back and [internalized] ourselves
as opposed to being a part of the community uh it used to be that neighbors looked out for you
the churches looked out for you
but many of us don't belong to churches anymore
and so therefore we don't have this broadened community of caring people
no
no
absolutely not you know i presume when when the time comes for something to happen to me that i will probably go back to iowa to be in that community
but uh
but it's the type of thing where i think we should look at some things that are working and try to use them in the cities also
i mean is there some reason why some of the churches here could not band together and do a similar situation
yes
and actually a great deal more money
right
but you know if my if all of my kids still live here
and i go back to iowa
of course there's no convenience so probably
it would [behoove] me to try to start something of this sort here in dallas
but uh that's a big job you know uh so many needs are crying the homeless the abused children
the the beaten wives you know there's so many things going on that that how do we all of this
and maybe that's a part of it
maybe maybe what we can do is uh of course this is kind of a far [flung] situation
but uh you know they're talking about work fare now in uh wisconsin
i believe it is
but
is there some reason i wonder why we couldn't have some of these people involved in nursing homes
so that they didn't have to be so expensive
you know if if you've got somebody who is drawing welfare then perhaps that can be quote part of their their payment for their welfare payments
yeah
because part of the problem now is that it costs so much money to get into a [convalescent] home or or an aged home you know it's almost prohibitive for many persons and uh you know
so what do you do does someone go on welfare in order to get in one of those homes or does somebody in the family quit their job
so that they can be at home
and and but of course that's not always wonderful either because somebody with alzheimer's needs twenty four hour watching
and nobody can do that
well see i don't have a relative that's made it over sixty one huh_uh
but my children's on their father's side have them up into the nineties
but uh the only time we came close
and we started looking into it was when my grandmother became senile
she start senile at fifty
and at that time the homes that we were looking for when i was a kid uh my mother i can remember them arguing they couldn't find one that it was either clean enough or they took enough care or there was one thing or another that continuously arguing about it
and they ended up keeping her from relative to relative
and of course she died when she was fifty nine
so it wasn't that long
but the few i've been in they have varied tremendous so uh
oh well we were talking about it the other day
because a girl at work has got that problem right now
and uh she keeps saying
she's never going to put her mother in one
and i says hey look go around look at them they're totally different than your concept of what it was years ago
and i says i don't know what condition your mother's in which i didn't
but you do have the choice now
and i says what is your mother going to do all day long while you're out here at work
i says think about what she would like to have because a lot of them hey they might be bedridden but at least they've got company and people their own age to talk to to keep them home
what do you've got
they're sitting there like they're they [vegetate] is what happens
uh_huh
see you're not aware of the the horror stories and things like that that i've grown up with
and i mean i'm talking about horror stories and they're still out there
i mean it's it's not something that's been eliminated
there are lots of homes out there that just literally people drop them off forget about them
and they change hands
i mean i'm not saying they don't investigate they investigate it's great when they're there
but unless they keep current with it
and they changes hands it goes either direction
because they're relying on a lot of people that hey they're like any other business if you lose a lot of your customers they get into a financial bind and people say well you know they're a nursing home
but i say hey it doesn't work that way they're a business
well like my neighbor she runs down here to this nursing home down here
and she just point [blank's] tired of the pressure and responsibility of working as a nurse in a hospital
she admits it
she's tired of it
so she works down here
she's a nurse
she's qualified
but she's fifty oh she's in her early fifties somewhere and working down here at the nursing home keeps her hand in there
she gets good money for it
and she enjoys the old people
you know it's it's just that simple for her
but uh
and she says it's hard
they get cranky they get obstinate
but she feels the same way i do i would rather depending on the situation
i would rather be able to put myself or anybody else in a nursing home if i was able to get close enough to them
so they don't feel lost
now see my grandmother she wouldn't go in a nursing home besides being scared
and everybody else didn't want her she was terrified of one literally and positively terrified because she remembers the old stuff
uh_huh
oh
oh she drives
oh yeah
they've got nothing
or they get on the telephone all day long
but i mean this is one area where i'd like to see social security or the government step in and take people over a certain age or with handicaps or something and take their social security away from them
i mean give them you know money at a certain point and putting them in homes to where they can get something fed back to them
in other words people talk to
and become still human beings because you see people down in south dallas
and every where else sitting in a house
they don't know anybody they're scared to death of [robbers] they're scared to death of everything
they hardly have enough food to even eat on
i mean you're not living
yeah
i mean hey i'm putting all this money out to the government
why can't they put it out there rather than in the federal prisons um
but you know you see pictures on t v
i mean i wish i had enough money to go down there and do something
but you know i don't know
they if they can have day care
why can't they put elderly people care and put them in a home to where it's regulated
well i certainly um can appreciate the patience and the you know energy and money and time and effort it would require for someone to you know take care of their elderly parent or whatever in their home
i think that you know would definitely be [preferable] if the person is you know able to do that
i think sometimes people take on
i know i have one friend who is taken on more than she can handle you know with her her mom needing constant supervision and for one person to be able to cope with that you know is really difficult
but i know it's hard not to feel guilty
you know to put somebody in a nursing home
i if i suppose if you could find a nursing home that you thought really comfortable you know that they were getting adequate care
but i think that's probably pretty hard to do at times
i've not ever been put in this position
i personally would have a real hard time taking care of my father he's getting up there
but he's very difficult to live with
and i think that would be a real consideration in in um entering him into our family unit here you know
so there's a lot of factors involved
well i think i would in some ways have to decide how much personally you know i was able and willing to handle and how much it would affect the rest of my family because i have two small children
and um we don't have a real large house
if you had a lot of money
and you were able to you know have like a little separate wing or something where i wouldn't have to constantly be having my children you know
be quiet and go away
and that kind of thing to accommodate an elderly person
i think you know just the medical aspects too would be a big question how much um it would require you know in terms of nursing care at home
and i know that there is often times insurance companies won't even pay anything to the families for doing things if they were in a nursing home would cost you know a hundred times more
so that's a consideration too
but i don't know
it would be a really rough choice to make depending on the parent and their personality and you know your own family and what's going on with i'm home all day
anyway right now with young kids
but if i was working full time and had to give up a career that would be another you know problem too
but um the only people i've seen is my husband's grandmother has been in a nursing home for several years
i know that uh there's been a lot of questions from other family members as to whether she's getting enough attention and whether they just kind of let her sit there and roll her over once in a while
it it's really tragic to go in those places
so
so
um i think i would uh look for a place that definitely had the physical [attributes] and it wasn't a [sterile] kind of environment
but had a comfortable feeling to it
that respected uh that you seem to see some respect for peoples privacy
and the attitude that the staff would have towards the patients i i was visiting a friend in the hospital and there was a nurse screaming at an older man that was a head injury unit
and he had apparently wet his pants and they had a blanket [draped] over him and the blanket had either fallen to the floor
or he had dropped it on the floor and the nurse was just screaming at him about how [obscene] that was or something
and i just thought gosh if i walked into a place
and i saw a staff member just [berating] or humiliating a patient i'd definitely
that would be something i'd really want to be on the look out for
um i would hope they would have some consistent staff i know they don't pay that much in a lot of those places
and so there's probably a lot of turnover that would be another thing that would be you know something to be important because i think it's confusing particularly if people are in some state of mental you know confusion anyway to have constant new people on staff and having to develop new relationships
and
oh i don't know what else other than that maybe some place that had activities you know that they could participate in
instead of just kind of sitting there watching the wall or something you know
talking to other people who had family members there
see how responsive the staff was to the things i brought up you know that i thought were important for my family member it would really be hard because when we go to visit
i'm sure places have you know their best foot forward kind of thing
unless you drop in frequently and kind of get the since of what's going on behind the scenes it would really be hard to know it's kind of similar in away to some of the things you look for in going to try and find day care for your kids
you know
so uh i'm sure if you have enough money you can find just super care
but you know the cost of it is probably just horrendous
yeah
i think that would be great
i had wished often with my husband's grandmother that she had been in a place like that because she had lived alone in an upper story of an apartment building away from even friends not really close by her or a grocery store or anything
and i thought she could have lived a a lot longer if she had been in a place where she didn't have to climb up and down the stairs haul groceries and then she would have people to check on her and didn't have to cook because she just got to a point where she wouldn't cook just for herself
and then she fell down and nobody knew about it for hours and hours and hours
so i think that would be great if i had to choose a place for myself
that's definitely
i think that kind of atmosphere would be wonderful
even i recall where i was living in the college dormitory as a graduate student
i thought how how neat
you know that you can have a place where you can you know go down together have dinner with other people because if your living alone the isolation and the depression and all those other factors should be taken into consideration too
so i thought you know they should have dorms for older people
so they had activities going on all the time
and you know it was really a much more comfortable lifestyle i could imagine for an older person
so yeah
i think that would be great if they had places like that
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
they had their own privacy
yeah
huh_uh
right
yeah
yeah
i don't know
you know how many of those there are
but i definitely think it's a great idea to have that kind of thing you know for people i know um in that way too that sometimes the elderly can be more involved with their families they can have their grand kids and that kind of thing over to spend the night or there's a lot more freedom i think instead of just being kind of taken away from all of that
and being told where you're going to be
and what you're going to do in a nursing home
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
let's hope it's true
it is
i've i've had a lot of thought thought provoking conversations on the topics
huh_uh
right
right
well as the insurance companies get more into this preventative health care
i think that will help it just seems very slow that that is happening
but uh yeah
i definitely think that will help
yeah
yeah
okay
well take care
thank you
well i would i hate to see them being put into a hair or a health facility care environment because they then feel like you know the family has abandoned them is what i get the comments from elderly people that i know that it's happened to
and the elderly people that i that are still hanging onto their homes that is their greatest fear is to be put into a a a care facility rather than their families taking them in because the families then seem to neglect visiting them
but if that is the case that they have to go to a care facility like that
i think that care facility has to be thoroughly investigated as far as the uh medical um evaluation what kind of credentials do the medical people hold uh if they're qualified uh what type of recreation do they have for them uh their food uh situation um the environment that they are exposed to the majority of the time that they're there is it bright and [cheery] and to put them in with people that have the same type of uh life style uh that they would feel more welcome in uh in making new friends because they can relate to certain individuals because of their personalities um so i guess i would like to hear how you feel about it now ray oh my
i i see
yes
he did uh_huh
uh_huh
that's wonderful
that's good
so he was very independent wasn't he
yes
wow that's wonderful
sure
he it didn't have any [hindrances] for him
uh_huh
oh bless his heart
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i see
sure
i understand that
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
wow
i didn't know that they were that uh
were you satisfied with uh the facility
uh_huh
right
oh
uh_huh
so you established a relationship with the uh the personnel there
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
well then you did see some compassion from the people there or were they just very businesslike and perhaps not of that faith okay
okay
okay
yes
i see
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
sure
right
oh yes
sure
oh absolutely absolutely
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
so he kind of adopted you and your wife
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm sure he looks forward to that
uh_huh
right
yeah
they're abandoned by their families yeah
or they might not have any at all
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
of course yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
like the old indian people used to do
uh_huh
yeah
how long ago was that
okay
yes
but that was uh okay
so that was fairly recent
and even then
a lot of the conditions i think you're right
they haven't improved that much
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
huh
sounds tough
yeah
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
that's that doesn't seem right
does it
yeah
i
you know you walk into one of those places
and you basically start to feel depressed because they don't
it's almost like they just shove people in there and wait for them to die
you know
and it's it's really it's a bad problem uh i work at honeywell up here
and i was talking to a guy that's actually working toward mobility aids for handicap people and one of the things he's done is interview uh nursing home directors because they're looking for get this they're trying to find out ways to restrain patients so that they don't look like they're [restrained] because apparently the family members who come to visit get upset [understandably] upset when they see that their loved one is in [restraints] you know uh at the same time
you have to restrain him because they might hurt themselves
they might stand up and not be able to stay stood up or might fall down or whatever
so it's an interesting problem that's just one of the many things that you know you have to think about in a nursing home
but you know the stuff that you told me is there's no excuse for that you know
right
stop when they're not on their guard you know
oh sure
you know it's it's really a good idea to look at places and see what's out there and see what the [modes] of treatment are
and and how people act
yeah
you know it really is you know that brings up a good point
i've got a friend of mine up here
and we were talking about this because his father is getting to the age where they're going to have to decide what to do
and he brought up a real interesting suggestion that works well for families that have a lot of kids in it
like i i come from a family that has five kids
well the way he said it was our parents spent you know quite a bit of time when we were young taking care of us you know
call it call it three years per child now if you have five children
that's fifteen years total
therefore shouldn't it be right that they should be able to stay with one family member uh in a rotating fashion for fifteen years free of charge
there you go
it it's essentially repayment yeah
that's it
but the thing is
hold on
i got one more thing
and i'll let
you talk cause we started talking about that you know we started saying well you know some family members might not agree to do that
and he said fine let the one who does agree to do it keep him keep the keep the father or mother for a longer time and charge the family member who doesn't cooperate just
say basically look uh i'll take care of mom and dad for you
but you have to give me a kind of a payment for doing that for you
you know so essentially it it [relieved] them of the burden uh and at the same time everybody kind of comes out happy i don't know if that would work
but then again it it depends on the family size
okay um
have you ever had to put one a a family member in a nursing home
oh
uh_huh
oh
well my mom is sixty five and she's which i feel is you know quite young still
but she's not in the greatest of health and so recently
she has been talking a lot about what we would do if we had to put her in a nursing home
she's adamant that she does not want to live with any of her children
and put that burden on us
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
but their parents are still alive
oh my goodness
wow
oh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh
oh
oh dear
uh_huh
now how do you go about finding out things like that
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh that's right
uh_huh
well that's true
that's right
oh my
boy
well
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh well
uh_huh
well that's what my mom's been saying you know she's been just saving her money and not paying a penny of it
but she says my little bit of savings will probably pay for a nursing home for maybe a year
and then i'll be on medicaid anyway so she said why don't i go out and and enjoy life while i can
and you know when i get to that point of being in a nursing home then maybe medicaid will just have to take care of me
but why don't i just enjoy life now
i think so
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
oh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
yeah
well it's it's kind of a sad thing to think about isn't it
okay
so what do you think about uh uh health care for the elderly
right
that's all
all the bills
does that include uh nursing home type care
just strictly health care
right
right
that's a hundred percent coverage
so it's that's good
huh
um
huh
right
so where does she well uh i guess in terms of where do you is your mother now in a a nursing home
right
i guess that's the big question is uh what what happens when they begin to get older i have a grandmother
and it
she is not really uh you know she is getting to the point where she almost can't be in a nursing home
she spends some time with my parents some time now she is with an uncle of mine living with them
but she requires a lot of attention and she can't really exist on her own any longer
and that's that's kind of a difficult situation that that she has to live with one of her children
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
my uh my grandmother is hers is physically she is in not too bad of shape
she is in her upper eighties
i guess forgetting in my order
but uh she's uh alzheimer's i guess
and so her memory is very poor
and so she can't really be on her own
but she can still do things by herself
but you just have to uh kind of direct her
um only if i had to
yeah
it's real hard on both the family and the people i mean
yeah
yeah
how old is she
i see
yeah
well um would like if do you think you're going to have to it's going to come to that
yeah
i went through this with both my grandmothers we had to get someone to look after them
but we were lucky
and we found someone to look after them in their home
we didn't have to put them in a home
yeah
yeah
well my great grandmother that we had to put in a nursing home because it got to where my grandmother couldn't take care of her
after they put her in there with
i mean she deteriorated i mean her health really got worse
after after a short
yeah
well that's um i guess references or whatever from other people
first of all
and then all that you'd have to check
i think all the licensing that they go through
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
see that's what it is the people are so old in there that they don't really know what's going on
and i think that they can get away with that
you have to
i think you have to really check into them real closely
and then even after you put someone in there then you would want to be able to check up on them on a
weekly basis just to make sure that they were [treating] them properly
oh
that wouldn't be too bad
yeah
it's a scary thought
yeah
i think she was like
my great grandmother was about she was i think ninety two
one of my girl friends her her great grandmother is a hundred and two
but she still lives at home with her with her family or whatever
yeah
no
it's a it's a tough decision
it's a tough decision to put to put them in there
and then uh_huh
but just it's a lot of responsibility
no
ma'am
yeah
no
what um i'm trying to think what else we went through oh
and then the medication if they have to have medication
that's another thing that that i mean you never really know
and you never really feel confident with anything unless you're actually doing it yourself
and if they're at a home
you don't know that they're being given their medicine
uh_huh
yeah
well it's kind of you know you put them in there
someone so someone else can take care of them
and then you really wonder you can't feel really confident that they're being taken care of
what
huh_uh
yeah
well how do you feel about um putting an elderly family family member in a nursing home
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
i it's it's a tough issue
i feel like each case probably has to be evaluated individually
i feel um i i feel like as families you know we need to take care of the older ones in our families
and yet i understand
um well we may be facing that with my grandmother
she is living near my parents out in california
and they this year they moved her into a um retirement apartment complex
so she's got part time care
but as soon as she needs around the clock care then she's not allowed to live there any more
and so we'll have to face the issue of whether she moves in with my mother or they put her into a nursing home
and it's it's difficult because i know my mother feels really um torn about it
she doesn't want to to put her in a place where she's going to be unhappy lonely
or where there's bad care
and sometimes you just don't know what the the place is like um
i mean you really need to get recommendations i guess from others
and um and yet it's a real burden to her to have to to be there all the time or else you know or else like you said you have to hire someone to be in the home
it's a tough issue
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh i was thinking you know might i guess i would want to visit the place quite a bit before or something
and and talk to the staff see what their attitudes are
talk to some of the people that live there and see how they feel about being there um because i've been in different nursing homes where i've [sensed] different [atmospheres] you know often
it's it's been negative where and i know that partly can be the attitude of the person if they they feel neglected by their family or whatever or they feel just ready to die
and you know tired of feeling
not feeling good all the time
then they're not going to feel too good
but then i've i've been to other places where you know the people have told me um this is a really good place the people here really care about us
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
well no
um but all the years that i've been alive
she has for the last thirty years or so
it's central california
yeah
uh_huh
well i
we're sort of in the middle of it
uh last february
we brought my mother from florida to up here in texas
and so far
she has been with us
but i really look to the future that it may be occurring uh uh
i don't know what i will do i am almost inclined to hire somebody uh to be in our home with her rather than have to put her somewhere
you know
but
well i think partly and it's not me
it's the it seems to me the older generation my mother and father and my in laws uh you know the stigma use to be you went there
and you died
and so they have all kind of
right
you know i just uh
and you try and say they are nice
now or or nicer
and you know i wouldn't want her in one in florida
because i couldn't check on her but if she were in one near here
i i would probably be there you know several times per week and i would stand up and scream if i saw things that were you know
[improper] or uh you know her care was not
have you had that experience yet
well
oh
right
it's uh well my father died several years ago
and that was you know he had cancer and eventually the hospital comes and says you know your father uh you know medicare says he doesn't need the level of care to be hospitalized so you are going to eventually they will come and tell you will have two days to you know move him somewhere else and that my mother and i needed to uh think what do we want to do
at that point we did
because he was not yet [comatose] but real close
and he lived two weeks in the nursing home
so we did do that
but uh at that time three and a half years ago my mother was in such a state of depression i didn't think she could handle even if we had full time around the clock care
i didn't think emotionally she could handle him being there
well it
yes
that too
you know there is no question that uh just moving them about is uh difficult
but it really is
and it's just uh
and i have friends who we are all in the age group where we are thinking about
some of these things for our parents
and it really is
uh with
well of course this again was in florida actually the level of care
and in fact two that we looked at you know they were all in [mauve] and blue and very elegant looking
and so on
but i didn't like the fact that they had you know eight patients for one uh you know nurse
or one care giver
and the one we selected was not nearly as uh up to date however it was clean and the patients were well cared for
and i like to think because it had a level of five to one
and i felt that that would be better care for my father uh and several of her neighbors and friends oh
but you ought to
i said i know
but we are making this decision
and my mom basically let me make the decision
so
uh
and she was pleased with it because he did get uh you know just wonderful care
oh absolutely
i don't care what you know one of these had a little ice cream parlor
and i looked at the manager and i said my father you know will never get out of a bed
i don't care about an ice cream parlor
you know if you went there
and you were in your seventies
and well you just went there to uh you know a retirement center yes
you could do all that good stuff
but this was i wanted him cared for
and not left you know if he spoiled his [linens] or something
i did not want that
you know there
what do you do in a hospital work with
okay
all right
right
yeah
no
i haven't either
but a lot of my friends and actually my boss had to put his mother in a nursing home
and i know just going through it with him
i mean it's a real traumatic experience
first just even deciding to do it
and then i think feeling guilty after you know that it needs to be done you know
oh really
uh_huh
okay
that's what i was just going to say if they're out of state you know
it's different if they're in the same town
i think you have a little more chance to look out for them
but then too if you work you know you get there has to be somebody there
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh oh you mean not staying at home
and not yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
well that's it
because gee
they've got probably a good twenty years to live
in some cases if they're healthy you know
it would be clean yeah
i know
and to make sure that there's enough people there to keep everybody like that
can you know to be involved instead of just leaving them sit in their room you know
uh_huh
yeah
in fact i used to date a guy that reminds me when i was back in minneapolis
but his mother
i mean he had she ended up i guess getting it what they now call alzheimer's yeah
but to begin with you know when they first
i mean she would know us you know
and we'd go to visit her
but then it would get you know like she didn't really know she didn't know me
and then she thought he was a brother you know
and it just got steadily worse you know
uh_huh
and has been independent all their lives
and then all of a sudden you know
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
just getting used to it
oh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
well that yeah would definitely be a positive part because they'd be around more people
and would be easier for them to get and to see those people
i guess
well i would think that you ought to be in fact i was going to say that i would go at different times of the day
not only when they're expecting you to come
you know just to see how you know at different time of the day what they do
and how they treat them you know
uh_huh
or is it just because yeah
they're having such a hard time adjusting you know
uh_huh
right
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
that's very spicy too  
i mean these bell peppers and curry  
oh that sounds really good  
huh  
i guess it was  
is this dinner time for you  
all done in advance  
yeah  
that's um i uh i'm i'm not that great a cook  
but i was single until i was thirty  
so i did cook a little you know  
uh and i cook a little bit now  
what i like to do mostly is stir fries  
and my wife normally says oh tom why why don't you make a stir fry tonight  
and so we even we just were recently married so we have a stir fry pan sort of like a big wok  
and we do a lot of um stir fry vegetables  
it's it's called a stir fry pan  
and it and it fits right on your uh it fits right on your burner whether it's gas or electric  
so it's it has a [flatter] bottom than a normal wok does  
and um normally what what we do is um just you know like two tablespoons of oil maybe sesame oil or some other type of oil than just regular vegetable oil  
but i will use peanut peanut oil or things  
and then we just stir fry broccoli and carrots and um green peppers and um maybe put in a little bit of um garlic and ginger uh beforehand  
that gives uh uh uh [spicier] flavor  
and then after the stir fry is over just mix in um a little bit of uh sometimes chicken broth   and corn starch and soy sauce  
and that sort of makes a uh a glaze   that sticks to the the vegetables  
i've used  
you turn them over  
a lot of times when we do stir fry we just put in [tofu]  
we don't put in meat   cause i guess we're i'm not  
but uh she likes to watch all the how much red meat and things  
so we'll do a lot of times vegetarian  
but it's a real good meal because you have squash and broccoli and uh carrots and celery and green peppers and um oh gee mushrooms  
it's it's a pretty big  
and we put that over rice  
oh you don't  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see we never in fact i never had squash growing up  
my my wife eats more vegetables ate more vegetable than i did growing up  
i'm i'm from pittsburgh  
and pittsburgh is a very meat and potato town  
yeah  
recipes in pittsburgh [consisted] of red meat and a potato  
red meat and a potato  
oh she had all of those types of vegetables  
see never no vegetables in my family  
yeah  
it was really funny  
well that was a real farm  
no  
but i i've i've heard stories uh  
i've heard stories  
uh  
oh this is  
you shouldn't be talking about this right before while you're fixing dinner  
that's right  
you should be careful  
that's pretty funny  
but my dad used to tell stories you know about the way they eat chickens  
but i never we never we lived in the suburbs  
we we bought everything in a grocery store  
there was no  
but it was funny you know  
it so  
but when we got married you know a lot more vegetables a lot more you know a lot of changes  
i think so too  
but we just went shopping  
and we came back with uh with uh sweets you know chocolate covered peanuts  
and   uh we came back with sweets  
we didn't bring all the healthy food back too  
uh_huh  
well that's that's supposed to be um the trend of the future   but uh the cut back  
i uh recently was over a friends house that's indian  
and uh she had brought indian sweets into the office  
and it was really funny because they were made from yogurt and carrots  
yeah  
that was a sweet  
and i was like ugh  
this is a sweet  
oh it is it's a candy  
i'm like ugh you know  
indian candy is not very good  
but everything was and everything  
you didn't notice it at first  
but everything was sort of hot  
everything had a little bit of curry in it  
it was funny even the sweets did  
when you first took a bite of them you didn't notice it  
but then after a couple of minutes you could taste it  
you know it had that that after taste that very it was a very indian flavor  
good  
they didn't have  
i didn't like her desserts very well  
they were very yogurt and carrots and [pistachios] [pistachio] nuts and yogurt  
and it wasn't very good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well have we done our ten minutes  
something like that  
i think we're  
no  
normally they just come in  
and they say you've overextended your your conversation  
oh okay  
well that's  
you'll see it will normally it will come on  
and it'll say you've over extended your conversation you now have fifteen minutes to fifteen seconds to complete it  
but uh i've been cut off twice  
so i just thought  
in fact i'm just also  
i'm hearing a [siren] outside i think my my neighbors car must have got bumped you know  
he has one of those alarms on his car  
one of the the neighbor has an alarm on a car  
and it's going off  
so i was going to go out and see what they were doing  
okay  
hey thanks so much  
uh_huh  
and you said this was your  
well you'll you'll get a couple more probably  
i uh i called yesterday i or friday  
maybe i talked to somebody that uh i got them on uh during the day  
it was a housewife  
and she was home with two kids  
and while we're talking the kids are screaming in the background you know that they wanted something  
and they were arguing back and forth  
and she just kept talking the whole time  
it was pretty funny  
okay  
hey thanks a lot  
i'll talk to you later  
bye  
okay  
in order to make the uh [curried] chicken i just fried the chicken   until it was nice and brown you know  
make sure it's nice and brown on both sides  
and then you take it out of the fat  
and you you let the chicken you fried kind of drain so that a lot of the oil comes out of it  
and then you you uh pour most of the all of the oil out of the pan  
and you kind of clean it out  
and you put back maybe two tablespoons full of the oil and [saute] some um bell peppers and onions in in that little bit of oil  
maybe one tablespoon or two tablespoons let that brown then put all of the chicken back in there  
and then you uh mix flour and a cup of water maybe uh one tablespoon of flour and a cup of water  
stir it real real well  
then you uh pour that in there you know to make the gravy  
and you let it come to a boil again  
and then you let it simmer  
and you add uh about a tablespoon of what i'm using now is [jamaican] curry powder  
and that's going to it's going to be really good  
yeah  
it's  
right  
and then if you like it really hot you can add some hot hot peppers and hot sauce and all that kind of stuff  
yeah  
uh well it will be in a little while  
i'm trying to get it get it ready early  
oh  
uh_huh  
what kind of wok do you have  
is it is it a real chinese wok  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's   that sounds real good except the squash  
i just don't like squash  
i never did  
my mother used to cook a whole pan full of squash  
and she'd have squash and corn bread  
and maybe some she'd have chicken or something  
and i'd just be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
we we were from north carolina  
and we had a garden  
and my mother would would uh grow the squash  
and she'd grow white potatoes and onions and cabbage and [collards] and all kinds of  
right  
wow  
you wouldn't believe it we even raised chickens  
you ever seen anybody kill a chicken  
and they put the head under a tin tub and chop the head off  
and then you hear the chicken jumping around under the tub  
and finally it dies down  
you get just a little [patter]  
and then it  
getting ready to eat chicken too  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
a lot of people are eating healthier now a days  
yeah  
ugh  
yeah  
i'm trying to learn how to cook um deserts without without all of the sweets you know maybe use honey or something  
yeah  
ugh  
uh right  
the spice  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i might have liked some of that  
i i like hot stuff  
i really do  
oh is it ten minutes  
i don't know  
do we get a signal  
oh well this is my first one  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
goodness  
uh_huh  
well okay  
yeah  
thank you  
it was nice talking with you  
yeah  
ugh  
yeah  
kind of hard that way  
okay  
all right  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you like to cook  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that would be good for a dinner party that you know to cook that because you don't have to deal with eight different things   coming out at once  
is that what you usually cook when you have a party  
uh_huh  
really  
that sounds good  
um fattening  
uh we  
it's funny that um we're talking about this  
we just had a dinner party  
and we had um  
our senior pastor and his wife came over  
and i catered to their diet is the only thing though  
so it wasn't something i really wanted to make  
i really wanted to make red beans and rice and with   you know sausage  
because i'm from new orleans originally  
and um i was going to make that red beans and rice with the those cajun sausage and french bread with garlic butter and stuff  
and uh well there's salad  
and then for desert i would i really wanted to make um just brownies  
or french [donuts] would have been good  
but it's real hard to make them  
they don't really come out like they do in new orleans up here  
i don't know why  
i don't know if it's me or the water or the recipe i have  
but  
um that's what i want  
that's what i like to make is just real neat stuff like that  
but  
kind of like the italian  
it's really good  
but instead i catered to their diet  
so i made baked chicken in the crock pot  
and um it was good and everything  
it had all the vegetables in it  
but it seemed kind of boring compared  
right  
i find it changing the way that i eat but not the way i entertain  
because i guess i guess i feel like if they're on a diet like that i'm going to you know honor that  
but if it's just  
another couple came um over a couple weeks later  
and i made  
what did i make that night  
i made a roast  
and i made um uh  
i can't believe this  
my husband broke the coffee pot i just bought yesterday  
i can't believe that  
anyway but i asked  
when [ricky] and [carrie] came over we made um a pot roast with rice and gravy and salad and the whole bit  
and normally i don't eat we don't eat like that during the week because of the you know the calories and the fat in it  
but you know when we're having guests we just kind of say oh just do it  
and i made blueberry [cobbler]  
and we had extra crust with it  
it was so fattening  
but i don't think we gained any weight from it  
so  
right  
i made an apple pan downy when the pastor and his wife came over  
and she didn't eat it  
but i did bake apples so that it would be not brownies you know  
i figured there was less calories in apple pan downy than in fudge brownies  
so um i've read a good brownie recipe  
but uh anyway so i guess that's about what i did when i entertained  
so do you have anything else you want to say about it  
okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye  
i like well i like to cook foods i like to eat  
i like to eat italian food best  
and i find that i that's pretty easy to cook because a lot of it is one dish meals type things and   they're kind of convenient  
right  
um i usually have parties that are smaller groups  
i don't have i've never had a real big dinner party except at traditional holidays like thanksgiving and such  
and so um yeah  
i guess i usually do  
i like to cook um heavy sauces and um   noodles and pasta and such  
yeah  
actually  
how about you  
what do you like to to cook  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
humidity or something  
uh_huh  
it kind of uh kind of down played compared to what you would like huh  
do you find yourself um with all the um cholesterol and and high fiber changing the way that you that you entertain  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds good  
well every once in a while i i think i feel the same way  
when i'm entertaining i don't take that thing into consideration unless it's really really  
like a lot of women will turn down dessert if it's too rich simply because they don't want the extra calories  
so i think dessert is the only thing that i kind of down play sometimes  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
um nothing comes to mind right off  
so i guess not  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
um yeah  
that's what it said to discuss some maybe a recipe  
well it says why would you what you would have for a dinner party  
um this is strange because i pressed one and i thought it said begin  
okay  
maybe maybe we're all set  
okay  
we'll talk for five minutes  
they interrupt at the end  
um yeah  
it says what you would have for a dinner party  
i just happen to plan one out for saturday  
i'll tell you   what i'm going to have   um if i can find it  
well i have this new fondue pot  
and i was going to do basic cheese fondue  
and i have two different kinds of [breads] and some ham  
and i was going to try something weird which you know  
when you have fish au [gratin]  
i was going to make some uh like fish chunks and dip it in the fondue  
i don't know if it will come out  
yeah  
the cheese fondue i make  
some people like swiss um  
i prefer cheddar  
and i'll mix  
i won't make i won't have a sharp cheddar because it for fondue i think it should be a little [calmer] than real sharp   cheddar  
and then i was going to make other things like potato skins  
see you don't necessarily have to dip this stuff  
and um i was going to have broccoli and cauliflower for a a vegetable  
oh yeah  
it's amazing how vegetables trays will go at a party  
yeah  
instead of something greasy or  
my uh girlfriend's do catering  
and they always about every party they do is they have a vegetable [tray]  
i think they try and suggest it  
what i've been doing when i get invited someplace and bring something i make uh food [kabobs]  
you take little toothpicks and cut up   uh pineapple and strawberry   and even banana if you can do it just before you leave  
it stays nice and fresh  
yeah  
yeah  
i like those  
um they they made a couple of those uh  
they made one for my uh [bridal] shower  
and i was pretty pleased  
i never made one for myself though  
but they look easy enough to make  
it's not  
yeah  
yeah  
you probably get this probably pretty sticky after you get done  
then you've got to drain the water out of the watermelon because you know when you scrape it it makes the water  
yeah  
um something i do is a fruit  
is i'll get um make chocolate sauce and dip strawberries and bananas in them  
yeah  
i have two nieces  
and they they they go melt some chocolate chips  
go buy me some strawberries  
yeah  
you know if you get a sweet strawberry they're much better  
but if you get a sour strawberry  
huh yeah  
no  
they um the strawberries are coming in season now from  
they're they're coming up from florida of course  
i live in vermont  
so but they're really reasonably priced  
they're coming up from florida  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i think the uh actually i think they get um some of them from south america  
yep  
they  
a lot of um of a um winter produce comes from south america  
of course their seasons are switched  
so um do you want to discuss the recipe  
i have a recipe if you want  
um it filled  
a lot of people try to stay away from this  
but i make my own homemade pudding just because i don't like box pudding  
yeah  
it and it if you um well  
first of all i take about a quarter and a half of milk  
and i put it in a two quart saucepan  
and you put it on a really low heat  
and you want to use one of your good sauce pans that [dissipate] the heat because it it ends up burning  
i mean no matter how careful you are you still might get a film on the bottom of the pot  
i don't let that worry me  
and i get the milk lukewarm  
and then i pour about a half a cup of cornstarch in it  
and i have this thing  
it's called the [slender] blender  
it it makes the uh it makes uh a whip topping out of milk if you get the milk cold enough  
it's uh i don't know  
they're called [moo] [goo] leaves or something  
they're  
yeah  
they're real neat  
i think they're real reasonably priced  
some of them they used to be a hundred dollars  
and they used to whip skim milk into a dessert  
but i didn't get that one  
i got the black and [decker] kind  
but uh it's real handy because it doesn't have a cord  
and you beat this cornstarch right into the the milk you know  
and it does an excellent job  
or just hand beat it  
i guess you could use a hand mixer  
but i don't think it i don't think it gets it good enough  
and then before the milk gets too hot um i add two beaten eggs and i really mix them in good and then about a half a cup of sugar  
and i let it pretty much  
i beat it like every minute for about ten seconds  
and it's it starts [thickening]  
when it [thickens] the cornstarch might get a little i don't know  
it gets like little [globs] of this [rubbery] cornstarch  
and you just keep beating it in  
and it's the  
the trick is is to have this blender  
so if you were  
you'd have to probably almost go out  
and someone who's just going to make it first time it's  
you'll have much better luck if you had one of these little [blenders]  
and then you can add cocoa powder to it to make chocolate  
or after it's [thickened] i cook it for a good  
once it starts boiling i just i cook it for a good seven minutes   seven to ten minutes  
and then you can make chocolate  
or you can take it off and let it cool  
you put um really good vanilla [favoring] in it and some butter  
and that makes french vanilla um custard  
yeah  
a chocolate powder  
yeah  
that cocoa yeah the unsweetened  
it comes in like a real dark can  
our mothers used to use it  
and then  
yeah  
we all used to  
yeah  
it's the unsweetened kind  
it's not like [nestles] [quik]  
i suppose you could use that  

yeah  
but um  
well i used to make the regular pudding the chocolate and put it in the pie shell  
and if it would sit in the refrigerator for a day where you cut the pie it would soak into the pie shell  
and it was like red  
and i'm like oh  
this is kind of [groedy]  
um actually i found it in one of my mother's um homemade cookbooks  
i mean   something she had collected out of woman's day or something  
so  
i think you couldn't make it with a hand [whisk] or or a regular beater  
but um  
yeah  
but i still think a beater would do it good enough um  
the trick is to get the cornstarch  
um yeah  
right in the in the lukewarm milk  
sometimes i put the cornstarch in a separate bowl  
and i would put it in the sink  
and i'll take my lukewarm milk and put it in the cornstarch and beat it good  
it seems to be better than putting the the cornstarch into the liquid  
it once it hits the top of the liquid it seems to make little balls and stuff on the top  
yeah  
and i'll do this uh  
sometimes i'll put my after i pour that into my back into my saucepan  
i'll put the eggs in the same dish and beat them up and then pour the cornstarch and the milk mixture in the egg  
so  
yep  
and then you know if you can put your cocoa in with your cornstarch if you wanted to the cocoa even seems to [thicken] it even more  
because by the vanilla doesn't seem to [thicken] as well as the  
sometimes the cocoa is  
like my husband really likes it thick  
he says i can stick the spoon right in this  
because i'm always worrying it won't firm up because it when you take it out of the saucepan it's like boy i hope this [thickens] a little more because it's not like real package thick you know  
when you cook a package   it's it's a little less  
but i put it in a nice glass bowl  
and um some people don't like that that film on the pudding  
so you can put uh saran wrap over the top  
and then once the pudding starts cooling it makes little balls of water on the saran wrap  
so when you pull the saran wrap back you sort of should be a little careful pull it back and shake the water off the saran wrap  
and i might put it back on  
but um  
yeah  
after well when it starts [steaming] a lot uh i definitely yeah put it in the refrigerator  
but um i  
my father always told me if you put hot food in your refrigerator you're going to make it work too hard  
that's  
yeah  
so that's why i do that  
so well i don't know  
that's my my great hard recipe  
what what is  
do you have a favorite recipe  
oh  
oh that's wonderful  
okay  
that's  
what kind of fondue the cheese dip or  
right  
yeah  
oh that sounds good  
that's always a good thing  
vegetable trays always go over so well because i think people get tired of eating junk  
i mean i think they like to have healthy stuff too  
you know it's  
oh definitely  
i think better even than than other kinds of food  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
right  
right  
that's true  
or even have you ever seen where they they'll take a watermelon and just cut the top out of it and then hollow that out   and then put the fruit in the watermelon that is really neat  
yep  
oh i think it would it would be a lot of work  
but um   you know because it's you know  
you have to cut each thing or you know use the [melon] [baller] and stuff  
but but i think they're really neat  
and you know i think they're worth the time you know because they  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
is that is that good  
you know i've seen that so many times strawberries dipped in chocolate  
but i've never tried it  
are they really good  
oh i bet it doesn't mix well does it  
oh well that's good  
because i know they've been really expensive lately   because they weren't in season  
of course they had to be be uh grown in [greenhouses] and stuff and in  
oh is that right  
oh i  
uh_huh  
right  
well  
okay  
sure  
is that right  
i've never heard of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think i know what you're  
is it like a hand held  
the  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh huh   huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
that is really interesting  
are you saying to use like um for chocolate like unsweetened  
unsweetened  
yeah  
i have some  
i just want to  
right  
okay  
cooking chocolate  
that's really interesting  
i've never heard of anybody making their own pudding before that's really neat  
well how did you get a recipe for pudding on your own  
is that right  
oh neat  
that is just really neat  
because i  
it would probably be a lot more work and probably not turn out as good  
uh_huh  
so you put the milk in the cornstarch  
and then put that back in the saucepan  
huh that's  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do do you put it in the refrigerator then  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
i knew that  
yeah  
yeah  
um hello um  
what is your favorite um food for a dinner party  
do you do tex mex  
oh fajitas  
how do you make fajitas  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it sounds good  
okay  
well that's nice  
oh well basically um because i lived in the middle east for a while i tend to fix middle eastern foods when i have   have people over  
and so um some of the dips are like [chick] peas mashed with um sesame  
and uh cold um  
what's it called  
i forgot what it's called  
anyway and and my  
that's right  
that's right  
it's called  
now i remember it  
and um [dipping] arabic bread the thin piece of bread in that  
or another dip is made with very similar but with um [eggplant] which has been actually  
it ends up with a barbecued taste  
i  
although we usually bake it in the oven  
or if we have uh  
those of us that have gas stoves bake it on top just like putting it in the gas flame and sort of getting it black   on the outside but mushy on the inside  
but barbecue is it like steaks  
or is it   uh turkey  
would you barbecue a turkey or a chicken  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure that the chicken that we barbecue from the middle east has a lemon garlic sauce  
i wouldn't imagine that a barbecued chicken would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well it's been fun talking to you  
right  
uh in wyoming it would be less spicy  
vegetables once in a while  
oh dear  
okay  
very good  
okay  
bye bye  
um i don't know  
i i think i make things you know  
i do things kind of simple because i you know i just have close friends over  
i make like lasagna  
and uh-oh we like to have barbecues outside so you know when the weather's nice because in texas you have a lot of nice weather  
so we do a lot of um things like that  
um i'm not really into gourmet cooking  
so i don't know how to do that  
so i don't have gourmet foods  
um yeah  
you know like fajitas and stuff like that  
so  
um it's kind of like made out of skirt steak  
and you marinate it  
you can buy [marinating] mixes here  
i don't know   get it up there  
uh you can you know marinate it in any kind of barbecue sauce you like  
and then you uh you quick fry it real fast with in hot hot grease you know not a not not deep frying it  
but you can either barbecue it which is really good   with uh green beans not green beans but green peppers and red peppers and onions  
and uh then you put it on a flour like you know  
you make your meat real uh thin you know bite size pieces  
then you put it on flour tortillas with you know guacamole and uh sour cream and you know all kinds of you know  
it's like a tex mex type thing  
it's really good  
you can do it with chicken too  
chicken fajitas and stuff  
so  
so what kind of cooking do you do up there  
oh   that sounds interesting  
uh_huh  
you cook them so often you kind of forget their names  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's unusual i'd never heard of anything like that you know  
here in texas it's all you know tex mex cooking and barbecue  
and   they're really big on stuff like that  
and  
yeah  
you barbecue  
pardon me  
oh yeah  
you can barbecue turkey if you have a big enough grill  
but my i cook my [turkeys] inside you know  
it  
you can buy smoked [turkeys]  
and or uh but most the stuff that we barbecue is like steak and chicken and hamburgers hot dogs   you know  
the simple things like that  
and   you know we we like things like that  
you know barbecue beans and baked beans  
and  
no  
no  
this is more like [hickories] [hickory] type you know  
depending on the  
it's like a smokey flavor   if you've ever you know had stuff like that  
yeah  
it's totally different  
sounds like it would be interesting to eat some of the middle eastern cooking  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
it's been fun  
it's been nice  
it's uh you know new to learn some what different people eat  
so   you get to think you know  
i come from wyoming  
and it's basically the same same type of thing except for you do eat more the tex mex down here  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
you you know  
down there it's just like meat and potatoes you know  
yeah  
right  
well it's been interesting to talk to you  
thank you for calling  
bye bye  
all right  
what are some of your favorite foods  
i imagine in argentina you've got some great foods  
uh_huh  
yes  
i've had i've had that meal in new york uh where they bring you a [plank] sort of with all this wonderful beef   parts of beef cooked and barbecued  
and it's marvelous  
i have to find a place around here that has that  
okay  
i'll keep that in mind yeah  
you serve that yourself or the for a family  
you ever serve that yourself when you have company  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
do you buy them um separately at you know an american grocery store now  
or do you have to  
you don't you don't go buy it from a [wholesaler]  
little butcher shops yeah  
yeah  
i've lived in mexico  
so i know  
yeah  
yeah  
you have to you have poultry place  
what do you what other what dishes do you serve with it  
yeah  
the turnover  
the stuffed turnover  
oh i love those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you remember when you were in washington sam the [argentine] baker  
it used to be in georgetown years ago  
he moved  
i guess he he retired and went back to argentina  
i guess in the early seventies  
yeah  
so that that's before your time  
your parents might remember if they were here then  
okay  
i mean he was wonderful  
we used to get the most marvelous [impenadas] and other   [argentine] things  
yeah  
i'm italian  
uh_huh  
yeah well  
because there're many italians in argentina  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my grandparents my grandfather came to the united states through argentina  
this was around the turn of the century   actually actually a little bit later like nineteen thirteen nineteen twelve nineteen thirteen  
yeah  
well i'll tell you  
it's interesting because when we cook here  
i'm of italian descent  
my husband is chinese  
so we and we both love continental cooking french cooking  
so we cook uh  
our meals are well  
we don't we don't usually mix  
i mean that sometimes  
well if we're entertaining we'll do a chinese recipe  
and um there are really easy recipe  
that is you know with chinese you always have several dishes  
and nowadays with microwaves  
you can steam many of the things in a microwave  
i don't know if you have one  
and if you like chinese food you can take filet of fish   and put a little bit of soy sauce and a little bit of sesame oil on top of it   and chop some [scallions] and a little ginger   and just cover it with some uh [waxed] paper and steam it just until the fish is done  
and it's a wonderful   um [flavorful] piece of fish  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
buy a fresh filet of fish a nice one at the fish the fish counter  
um any white fish  
sole is good uh um flounder  
sole or flounder is real good and even grouper  
little bit of soy sauce and sesame seed oil  
and not too much soy sauce  
uh some chopped up um you know [slivers] of [scallions]   and [slivers] of ginger and then just cover it and put it in the microwave for just just two say two minutes check it after two minutes to see if the fish [flakes]  
and if the fish [flakes] it's done  
don't [overcook] it though  
well you see just check it you know during  
and another quick dish if you like um do you know what hoi sin sauce is  
it's that sweet chinese sauce  
well if you go in a chinese store ask for hoi sin h o i s i n  
h o i  
s i n or s e n  
either way they'll spell it hoi sin sauce  
it's a very sweet dark sort of a [purplish] plum sauce [purplish] brown  
and if you take uh little pieces of pork and you fry them like little cubes of pork   and you fry them with garlic and a little bit of couple [dashes] of hot pepper   and then mix some hoi sin sauce with sherry just a little sherry   to thin it and stir that in you can even put a spoon of ketchup in  
and that makes a great pork dish with a sort of a spicy sweet sauce that you can serve over rice  
um well  
for two people um if it's american style i buy a half a pound if you know we if you're just serving that  
but if you're serving another dish with it say the rice dish   um well with guys pretty healthy [appetites] i'd probably go a third of a pound  
and then you know you could  
and you can always you can always heat it up again and save you know  
yeah  
you can also do the same thing using um if you have ground beef  
just stir fry the ground beef  
drain off the oil  
use the same hoi sin sauce and some of the frozen mixed vegetables  
just stir that in  
and you've got a very colorful side another dish  
um the hoi sin sauce  
oh a dollar twenty nine a can  
a can would serve you for for you know for quite a few um meals you know  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
it's not expensive at all  
it's one of the chinese cooking basics  
yeah  
well listen it was good talking with you  
hope you enjoy your recipe  
okay  
bye bye  
all right  
mine well  
yeah  
well we got um a lot of uh european dishes  
we got we got what some people call the best beef in the world  
so it's uh [bishu]  
like every sunday you go out  
and you buy all these parts of the cow  
and then you just cook them over a grill  
that's  
like in our house it's already built in  
there's this whole special place in the back  
so you can make a barbecue  
yeah  
yeah  
and then  
well they have one in uh they have an [argentinean] place down in georgetown  
so  
um  
excuse me  
oh no  
well see the problem is i'm only twenty two  
but like like when i'm down at home  
and like somebody says okay when are when are we having this you know  
and i'll cook it  
you know like you have to prepare the fire and then put the sausages on  
and then you know you put all these different meats which take different times  
no  
but what happens is in argentina they have like all these little places   like the fruit stand and you know the dairy and products and whatever  
and so  
and so they got they got the meat place  
and so you just go there  
and you can't find chicken there  
you got to go to another place to find the chicken  
well basically it's what we call it [impenadas]   which is which is like  
right  
meat [turnovers]  
and then we also put sausages on a [bun]  
and then that's that's to start out with  
and then what you have is also like you know like three different kinds of salad  
and uh that's about it  
uh no  
oh okay  
yeah  
no  
we were only there for two years  
yeah  
and uh what i what i also eat now since i graduate  
i have an italian roommate  
and  
are you  
and since being [argentinean] we also have a lot of pasta  
and you know  
yeah  
and my mom you know like makes   like what we call [niokes] and   all this stuff that it's just you know everything like lasagna and everything  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
at one point one third of the population of argentina was italian   like pure italians  
okay  
okay  
right  
right   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
okay  
is it  
because i was at you know  
it's like when you when you go buy fish you know  
well like i buy like the fish  
so you can do it in the microwave   the [breaded] fish  
and yeah  
i've seen you know the filet  
what kind of fish  
okay  
so we put soy sauce and sesame  
okay  
okay  
okay  
because i got i got um one of those little uh microwaves  
the ones that take forever to boil a cup of water  
yeah  
no  
i don't  
wait wait wait h  
h o i  
s i n  
okay  
okay  
okay  
uh how much uh how much pork do you buy   for two people  
right  
yeah  
i could probably go half a pound  
so it's just it's just since i'm from argentina i just love meat  
and we  
okay  
okay  
and how much does it cost  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
okay  
i thought it was maybe like you know like five fifty or something  
oh okay  
same here  
all right  
thank you  
bye bye  
well what would you have at a dinner party  
uh_huh  
oh gosh   that sounds great  
uh_huh  
well um i think it would probably depend on whether this was a formal or a informal dinner party  
but if it was informal my first choice would be crawfish  
because i mean crawfish everybody over here likes crawfish  
but   you know i i wouldn't have to worry about satisfying my guest  
but if it was a formal dinner party i would probably think of something else like uh  
shrimp shrimp [fettucini] is real easy   to um make and everything  
and it's usually well liked by people i guess  
i'm just a seafood fan  
so   i think on the lines of  
oh yeah  
um you're not supposed to i mean you're not supposed to eat them dead  
i mean   well you eat them dead  
but  
right  
because if if they are dead for too long  
you can always tell whenever they're cooked if they've been dead for a long time because their tail [straightens] out  
and you're not supposed to eat those because they're bad for you  
yeah  
so if you ever go in a restaurant order crawfish  
i mean every once in a while you'll see  
i mean it doesn't happen very often because it's just an accident  
but if the tail is straight on it then yeah   don't eat it  
but um you just put some cajun well lots of pepper  
and you just boil them  
and they're absolutely wonderful  
but there's uh they're a pain to peel for some people  
once you get used to it they're real easy  
but um you know if you have nails or anything you can plan on those being shot  
i think for a dinner party  
i i don't know  
it depends  
like if like my age if there was a bunch of college kids coming over for a dinner party no i they would shell their own  
you know we'd just have crawfish and beer or something  
but um if it was more formal like if i was you know working environment then i would probably um shell them or at least [disconnect] them from the head  
but there's a   there's a big thing over here that everybody sucks the head  
so um   it it would just   depend  
that's the best part of the crawfish  
[sucking] the head  
but um i don't know  
it it just depends on what type it was i guess  
but you can buy uh the crawfish shells already peeled and everything  
and usually you use those like for frying   or to put in salads or to um you know make a sauce with or something like that  
but you can go ahead and buy them cooked and [shelled]  
and they're more expensive of course  
but  
um yeah  
it really does   i like shrimp better  
just um the crawfish i mean it just has a taste of its own  
it also depends on who's cooking it and how much seasoning they use   stuff like that  
but um i think that  
and also to get totally off the subject of crawfish lots of vegetables and hors d'oeuvres and stuff like that for a dinner party i think that that really helps  
that's what i need  
uh_huh  
oh  
i bet  
that that got pretty competitive   you know as   far as   who   could come   up   with the best recipe  
that   would be fun  
uh-huh  
sometimes it might be the [candlelight]  
and sometimes it might be the picnic out back   or something  
well   that's you know that's fun  
uh_huh  
that sounds right i   would i'd take him up on that  
uh_huh  
i'd   be  
i that's about how much i can cook   you know  
i'm i'm doing a lot more cooking now than i used to  
but that's only because my mom just started working  
so she's tired when she comes home in the afternoon  
so i try to have things cooked for her  
but   uh um i usually try to stay out of kitchen  
i don't know  
not one of my favorite hobbies  
well um   my grandma speaking   of those meatballs again she owned every christmas and and easter  
whenever we have at the big get together over at her house she makes this meat ball sauce  
and it has  
i don't know  
they are just kind of like quarter size meatballs  
and   they are absolutely delicious  
i don't know what she calls them in  
i don't i'm sure she puts wine in it because um she cooks everything with alcohol  
but  
um  
i don't know  
i would i would be interested in getting that recipe for you if you have it around  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
that would be wonderful  
yeah  
um hum  
oh  
um hum  
well um how long do you cook the meatballs  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
hum  
that sounds great  
especially i mean the fact that you can prepare the meatballs so so far in advance  
i mean like if if   you are having a dinner party on wednesday night you could do it on a weekend  
that would be great  
i think i'm going to have to keep that in mind for my future because i   hope to have to have lots of dinner parties   cause i like to  
i mean um um i'm sure that i'll be involved in a big company  
and i know that my future husband will be you know  
he's going to be working for [chevron]   in houston  
so he's going to be  
um you know i'm sure that dinner parties will   come in handy  
oh yeah  
i have   to impress the boss   and clients cause um i'm in i'm in public relations in school  
so i'm going to have you know my whole job's going to be based on my clients and stuff like that  
so   i'm going to have lots of dinner parties  
and have to take them out to eat  
right now i'm taking a class on [ettiquesy]  
and   all the little   bitty things that i didn't even know  
i   mean i thought for sure i'd been raised properly  
but i've been doing a lot of things wrong i didn't know   about  
but um so is there anything else  
oh  
yes  
you need to try em  
oh they're wonderful  
well uh lately since i have children i've cut down on having dinner parties  
but when i do i try to keep it pretty simple on things that i can prepare ahead of time  
uh i have one recipe for uh a really good um type of a [meatball]  
it's called burgundy [meatball]  
and it's made with red wine and  
um  
it's it's really good  
and you can make it ahead of time and then um make the sauce when you're ready to um to serve it  
that's one of my favorite things to to serve  
sure  
oh really  
well i guess being from that part of the country  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well how do   make how do you you cook crawfish  
i in fact i just came back from the grocery store  
and being in texas we don't have too many you know people that that eat crawfish  
but they had live crawfish   on sale  
uh_huh  
don't buy them that way  
uh_huh  
okay  
well i'll remember that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh when you were um when you serve it do you shell them and then serve em too  
um hum  
sure  
still have see that   ooh  
um hum  
does it taste a lot like shrimp  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
we have a a friend another couple where the husband is the one who cooks   all the time  
and  
yeah  
that's what i wish i had  
but in our family i am the one who who cooks  
and i i really enjoy it  
it's gotten a little more difficult with kids  
but i really do enjoy cooking  
and we um we have them over for dinner   back and forth quite a lot  
and before i had my second child we sort of had a contest going where     you know he would cook and then the next time it would be my turn and i'd try to outdo him   and then he'd try to outdo   me  
and we we  
was really a lot of fun  
and  
yeah  
it did  
we we   tried   to   be   fancier or more courses than the other  
or  
uh it was a lot of fun you know  
it something unique you know  
and then we got into different um themes you know um whether it would be ethnic food   or um sometimes it would be um oh oh i don't know maybe an outdoor theme or uh elegant theme or you know  
it was a lot of fun  
that's   right  
it was fun  
and and we threatened to make the other two uh make us dinner one time   uh just to even it out since we seemed to be [unfairly] doing all the cooking   and they were doing all the enjoying  
i'm  
it does  
except that knowing them they would probably do something   ridiculous and terrible just   just to uh make sure that they didn't have to do it again  
make hot   dogs or   some potato chips  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
it can it can be fun i if you have the time  
but you know a lot of times it's too much of a rush really be able to enjoy it   able   to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's um it's in the other room  
i don't know if we   have enough time for it  
it's real easy  
one of the unique things in this it's like a pound of ground beef some bread crumbs um an egg um whatever seasonings  
you can just light  
so salt and pepper um and chopped up water [chestnuts]   which is something different um  
makes them a little bit crunchy  
you need to chop em up real fine  
but um it makes them crunchy  
and that adds something new to it  
and then the sauce is just made with um [bouillion] cubes   water burgundy wine and um cornstarch instead of flour  
so it's not a it's not a thick rich type of a sauce  
it's more of a  
when you use corn starch in in gravy like you know when you have um chinese food   that kind of a gravy or a sauce that comes with a lot of that they use corn starch instead of flour in all of their sauces and [gravies]  
and it gives it a bit of a different consistency  
the meatballs you just um after you form them fry them in a pan until   they're uh [browned] on all all sides  
and then drain off all the grease  
uh then what i usually do is i freeze them  
and then when   you're ready   to serve   them then you cook the sauce and then put the meatballs into the sauce and heat it  
probably you have to heat it up for a good oh  
if they're frozen you know it may take a half for them to thaw out  
but then heat them thoroughly in the sauce itself  
let them simmer in the sauce itself  
and it's real good  
right  
and then freeze them  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you'll   meet friends  
invite invite the boss over   and   and   friends at work  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh  
really  
well i i think we've covered the subject  
i got some interesting information about crawfish  
i was in fact  
it's good cause i was curious about that today when i saw those for   sale  
oh i will  
i'm sure my husband will be surprised because we were talking about them the other day before  
perhaps this connection  
no  
it still echoes  
okay um  
i love it  
uh  
do you work  
and have a family  
oh  
i expect so  
uh well for a dinner party i think one of my favorite things is baked chicken and white wine  
oh  
um i guess mostly out of an international cookbook that i have  
oh  
they have a t i plant in texas in [kingsport]  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
great  
what is uh is a [marsala] wine a [sweeter] wine  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
huh  
oh  
oh so it kind of browns  
and then you put wine over it  
uh_huh  
that sounds real good  
yeah  
what do you serve with it  
what do you serve with it  
uh_huh  
that's what i do too  
uh_huh  
that's what i've got  
i've got steamed broccoli down on mine  
no  
it's great  
i've got a good dessert recipe  
uh do you like angel food cake  
i just break it up in a glass bowl  
and then i mix up uh some cream cheese and a little bit of [amaretta] and some cool whip  
and i make a [thickened] blueberry sauce  
and i layer it with uh angel food cake and the blueberries and then that topping  
it is it's great  
uh_huh  
right  
i know i know what you mean  
we don't eat desserts much any more  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh and pour that over it  
that sounds great  
it would be pretty  
right  
yeah  
right  
that would be pretty  
we've been fixing something lately that well  
we've been cooking a lot of   turkey breasts   because it's low fat  
and i've been making a hot sandwich  
i [toast] a piece of whole wheat bread   and then put the turkey on it and then slices of the low fat swiss cheese  
and then i make a little honey mustard dressing and put over it   and pop it in the microwave  
it is delicious  
i wouldn't mind serving that to anybody  
no  
yeah  
it's real quick  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  
mix up a little uh mayonnaise with some [dijon] mustard   and honey until it just  
i mix it until it just tastes good to me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it's real good  
and it keeps in the refrigerator  
oh it keeps a long time  
no  
uh_huh  
it keeps a long time  
oh  
and i put a little um oh yogurt in it too  
if i  
just plain yogurt  
it gives it a little tang  
it makes a great sandwich  
oh are you  
oh yeah  
that's kind of hard  
they'll eat fish  
she'll eat fish  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
right  
i had a recipe from that um international cookbook two that's a great salad in summertime  
do you do you garden or not  
okay  
it's just sliced tomatoes  
and i put it on a glass plate because it looks real pretty   sliced tomatoes and then green pepper strips   just over it   and some red onion slices   and just a little bit of um basil   and then a little italian dressing over it  
and everybody loves it  
and it's so easy  
and it's delicious  
huh_uh  
it isn't  
and you can put some [cucumber] slices on too  
i got it at the checkbook store  
and it's got all these beautiful pictures   in there that are inspiring  
it's going to say uh edited by charlotte [turgeon] editor of  
i'm not french [laroute]   [gastro] [lamink]  
the creative cooking course  
i'm trying to see who it's published by [ottenheimer]  
i've never heard of it  
this edition is published by [bonanza] books  
it's a big book  
but it was not expensive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   we do too  
yeah  
that's right  
i don't think it would  
uh_huh  
i stir fried some the other night though  
some uh beef and broccoli strips  
it was good  
but it didn't have much beef in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it just takes the time to cut everything up  
cook  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
one of my daughters sent me a colorado cook book put out by the junior league of denver  
have you ever seen any put out by junior leagues  
they are great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
they are good usually good aren't they  
oh is that right  
what was that  
uh_huh  
you buy the canned baked canned baked beans  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
right  
uh_huh  
jot them down huh  
do you like to cook  
i do too  
it it's kind of hard to find time sometimes  
but  
yes  
uh i don't have a family  
but i i usually work about fifty hours a week  
and   by the time i get home i'm so tired it's hard to cook a full meal  
that's that's really weird that you said that because for a dinner party mine is is a is a chicken in a [marsala] wine sauce  
so where did you get your recipe for it  
oh okay  
well mine actually came from the um texas instruments cafeteria  
they they  
yeah  
we have  
it's in johnson city  
and um the cafeteria is real good about putting out recipes you know like once a month  
they'll put out a recipe of the month  
and they they put this one out  
and i tried it  
and it was really good  
yeah  
a little bit [sweeter]  
and it uh it's a it's a red wine  
and uh i'm trying to think what else  
i i roll it in bread crumbs and uh parmesan cheese  
and then i rub it with a little bit i rub the chicken with a little bit of oil   and pour the wine sauce over it as like the last twenty minutes   so that it gets just enough flavor  
right  
and it's really easy too  
so  
what do you use  
huh  
i like to serve um a wild rice with it  
this is really neat  
and i  
we're big broccoli fans  
well i just i just don't think you can go wrong with something like that  
oh what  
yes  
uh_huh  
wow  
what time should we be there  
that sounds wonderful  
i love desserts  
but since there's only two of us   it's really  
i i try to avoid making anything that too fancy that   we'd like too much and eat too much  
but i i guess one that that i really like that i haven't made in awhile  
and it's it's called a fruit pizza  
and you take a uh sugar cookie uh recipe   and and spread it out on a pizza pan  
so you make it like a pizza crust  
and then you you bake that  
and then you um take things like [kiwi]   and strawberries and bananas and whatever fresh fruit you want  
and you mix that with um excuse me you use cream cheese and a little bit of orange juice  
and i can't remember what else is in it  
and you make kind of a glaze  
and then you layer your fresh fruit on that  
yeah  
it is really good  
and it   it's real light  
and it  
depending on the fruit you use it's you know it's real colorful  
especially with like the [kiwi] and the strawberries  
so but usually i just opt for brownies and vanilla ice cream  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's just so much better for you  
uh_huh  
oh  
that sounds great  
no  
and that's that's something that just you know it doesn't take a long time to fix  
it's really good  
and it's really good for you  
and we eat out a lot  
and there are sometimes you just don't feel like eating out  
and i wish i had something a little bit different   to just [zap] together  
uh_huh  
i was going to say do you just mix it to taste  
okay  
how long does it keep  
do you well  
you wouldn't have to make  
yeah  
and you wouldn't have to mix that much together even  
i'm sorry i keep coughing  
i've had a bad cold  
plain  
plain yogurt  
i'll bet that is really good  
man  
i'm going to have to think of that  
we're getting company tonight  
and i have been debating what to cook because one of my guests is a vegetarian  
so we're going to  
i think we'll try to do something a little bit  
we might try to to um to grill some flounder or salmon steaks  
yeah  
and i usually  
when they come down i'll grill those   and brush on a little lemon butter sauce  
and um definitely go with it will have to be a rice dish   lots of vegetables   to make up for the lack of meat  
no  
we don't  
our next door neighbors do  
and some a lot of times they'll give us something  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
that's what i was just thinking  
it doesn't sound like it it would be hard at all  
where did you get  
where did you get this cook book  
really  
i'll might have to visit the state book store  
i haven't either  
okay  
well the ones that i've been i've been wanting to get um  
i guess you've seen the three hundred sixty five ways to cook chicken   and the three hundred sixty five ways to cook pasta  
i've been i've been wanting to get those because we eat a lot of chicken  
and we do eat a lot of pasta  
so we we just said the other night it wouldn't be too difficult to be to do without red meat  
you know we don't have that much of it now  
as long as we have plenty of vegetables   and lots of chicken  
yeah  
i've got a i've got a wok that we don't use near as often as we used to  
we used to stir fry a lot especially um a lot of chicken and and a lot of rice dishes  
yeah  
but usually if i'm if i'm if i take a day off or on the weekend especially i try to cook   real real food  
and at least cook a couple of dishes ahead  
so that we can have those to enjoy  
so  
uh_huh  
yes  
cause we have some   some local ones  
and we have a share alike column in the paper   where people you know write in and share recipes or write in and say i'm looking for this recipe  
and that's where i get a lot of my recipes  
yes  
and i got i got a real good one from a doctor's office one time  
it's uh it's a baked bean recipe  
and you mix baked beans and [lima] beans  
and uh let's see i guess  
yeah  
just mix the canned beans together   and brown sugar and [molasses] and bake them in [catsup] you know  
and and you just bake it  
and it's just it's like a a [spicier] baked bean dish  
and you can add hamburger if you want   to give it a little more body  
so i i try to always keep my eyes open and because a lot of time you can find find really good recipes where you wouldn't even think about it  
so i try to always keep a little notebook in my purse  
but it's been  
okay  
you can go first  
or i will  
okay  
well i'm going to tell you what i'd have  
down in the south we have a lot of shrimp   okay  
and i have uh shrimp that is steamed in beer that   i cook  
and then i have a cauliflower that i would cook garlic bread green salad tea  
and we'd have a lemon pie for dessert  
yes  
and what's really neat about it is the shrimp is cooked in your uh like your rice steamer   your rice cooker  
and um you place the shrimp in the in the rice steamer  
and you put a bay leaf and put some uh red pepper over it  
now you can either use you know the kind that comes in the little can  
or you can just get some you know regular red peppers  
cayenne  
uh_huh  
and you put a little bit of that over it  
now if you use the dried kind   then you would only use two of them  
and you put that in there  
and then you pour two bottles of beer over it  
two pounds  
that's the jumbo shrimp in the shells  
leave the shells on them so they won't just roll up  
and you pour the beer over the top of it  
and you cover it  
and you only cook it until the mixture begins to boil   and the shrimp turn pink  
then you remove it  
and you put it on a platter  
and then you serve it with melted butter  
and uh i usually put garlic powder in mine  
and they can just dip it  
and they shell it as they eat it  
but uh then the uh the cauliflower you   cook that in the microwave  
and what you do is you just uh wash it  
and you core it   and in a like a oh what do you call it like [pyrex] or something like that kind   of bowl that would go in the microwave  
uh_huh  
but it's got to have one that has a cover on it  
and you uh put about two tablespoons of uh water into this bowl and about an eighth a teaspoon of salt  
and then you just set your cauliflower in there  
and then you cook it for seven minutes on high  
and you rotate it one time  
uh_huh  
uh when you core it you be real careful so you won't knock your flowers off  
and uh you just set it in there  
and you microwave it on high for seven minutes  
and you turn it one time  
and while that's cooking i take mayonnaise about a cup of mayonnaise and a teaspoon of mustard and some garlic powder  
and i mix it all together  
and i shred up some just regular white cheese  
and after that's cooked you take it out and pour this on top of it  
and then you sprinkle the cheese on top of that  
and you cook it for another three minutes on high you know   just mainly to melt the cheese and everything and let all the seasoning melt into it  
and   it's done  
it is good  
but it it looks  
i mean what you can do then see is like what i usually do is i'll like sit the cauliflower in the middle  
and then i put the uh shrimp around the outside of it   you know on my platter  
and then i have a green salad that i put around the outside of that  
and you know you have all the different seasonings and stuff  
and then i just fix little individual cups for them  
and they have the   garlic bread  
and it makes it a real nice looking   you know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
but it   looks like it you know  
you look like you went to a whole bunch  
right  
and uh usually i cut those little cherry tomatoes up   and put some color into it you know  
and i'll lay those on top of my salad you know to make it look nice and things like that  
okay  
uh it usually serves six  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
have you ever had crawfish  
oh you ought to try some crawfish  
they are good  
but see that's one good thing about living down here is usually anybody that comes over you know even if it's like out of town guests and stuff they want our cooking  
you know   they want it from down here  
because just like now especially crawfish it is starting to move out you know  
and more and more people are beginning to find out how good it is  
but  
uh it's similar  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's not   exactly  
i mean it's got a taste of its own you know  
but it is   it is similar to because you only eat the   tails of it  
um it looks more like a crab  
uh_huh  
but  
no  
um let me think of i can't even think of what you  
i guess if it uh it looks like more like a cross between uh a crab and uh and a lobster  
because it's small like that  
and it's got the [pinchers] like a crab  
but   you know it's it's similar to a lobster too because the tail has got the little pleats in it like a   lobster would  
and we call them mud bugs  
but i mean they're fantastic tasting  
they are so good  
everybody  
it's it's the season for them right now  
louisiana  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
you know  
you buy it you buy it as a seasoning  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
i cook mine well do you have a uh like a black iron skillet  
oh okay  
well   i guess you could cook it in in that too  
but i don't know  
you know i never have  
i use uh uh the black iron skillet to cook mine  
uh_huh  
but it really it's not it it it doesn't burn or anything like that  
the blackening is really the seasoning  
i mean there is   it's it's   a blackening seasoning  
you know i mean that is a seasoning  
that's really it's not like you would have to cook it for an extreme amount of time or something like that to get it  
because it's called uh what it's called is blackening magic  
and it it comes in a bottle  
and uh   well i'm trying to see  
it's got a a picture of [dom] de [luise] on it  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you do have to have it you know you do have to have it hot when you cook it i mean   your pan  
it does have to be really hot you know when you put it in  
but it's not like it's burned  
and it what it what [blackens] it is the seasoning  
and it is so good  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well have you ever thought about coming to louisiana you know to visit  
yeah  
you ought   to come down  
um you don't even have to go all the way to new orleans you know if you want to really get some good food  
i mean you don't have to go that far south  
but uh of course the further south you go the better the food is as far as i'm concerned  
and fact is we're going to take a vacation this year  
we're going to go to new orleans again  
and uh we're only going down there for the food though  
uh yeah  
we go to the the french quarters and stuff like that  
and uh i have some friends that live down there  
and so usually we go to we don't go to the tourist ones  
we go to the ones that they tell us to go to you know  
and we went to this one  
it was called the back porch  
and uh they were cooking the stuff you know while we were we went on this boat ride  
and then we came back and ate out on this it was like a back porch  
and uh   usually if you can find somebody  
of course now when you go down there you know i mean they've got just  
there's no where you can miss  
i have never gone to a restaurant and not just been so full  
it's unreal  
i mean it's so good  
the seasoning they it's just unreal  
gumbo  
no gumbo  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
you can even make it with chicken or you can make it with seafood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i'll tell you what  
do you want to go first  
well you go ahead  
oh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh it sounds fantastic  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is it cayenne pepper you mean  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
and how much shrimp would you use  
two pounds  
okay  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a glass dish  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and it's are you cooking the whole head   at one time  
okay  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that sounds fantastic  
um um  
uh_huh  
sure  
and it's   not much work  
that sounds  
yeah  

i bet it tastes good too  
oh yeah  
now how many could you serve  
yeah  
okay  
i figured about that  
oh that's good  
see out here we have so many uh ethnic people  
we have italians  
and we have portuguese  
and we have russians and polish  
and it depends out here like the type of people you're going to entertain you know  
so it's hard uh  
you you just have to pick something for the the group that you're going to entertain for that particular time  
and uh they're big on finger food here too you know chicken wings and uh ribs and that kind of stuff   uh barbecue and uh cooking out in the yard it you know when it's nice barbecue outside chicken and that kind of stuff  
uh no  
but i have had shrimp  
oh of course  
that's  
yeah  
really  
is it like shrimp  
it's similar  

oh it does  
does   it look like a lobster  
oh it looks more like a crab  
oh  
are they thin long   or wide  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yep  
oh  
and and where did you say you were from  
louisiana  
oh well do you do cajun cooking  
oh i love uh blackened you know uh the the fish and the chicken and that kind of stuff  
oh we have a few places up here that do that  
and if ever i see it on the menu i always get it  
it is so good  
now how do they do the blackened  
but uh do you have to have a certain skillet   or something  
no  
i did have  
i don't have it now  
but i have mostly teflon  
you now  
but  
does it have to get extremely hot  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh oh   i see  
yeah  
oh i see  
oh  
oh really  
oh  
now would you would cook it for the same amount of time as you would prepare it any other time  
is that what you're saying  
oh uh_huh  
because   i could have the uh chicken on the [skewers] with uh uh blackened seasoning  
and oh that is so good delicious  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
it is  
i i love it  
i i in fact i was in texas for a little while  
and i liked uh the barbecues and the mexican food  
i have a passion for all that type of different tastes  
because i have been brought up mostly italian american food  
because my uh parents are italian and portuguese  
so we cook a lot of pasta and uh [gravies] and pizzas and you know [roasts] and that kind of thing  
that's why i enjoy going to restaurants and have you know trying different things  
i would love to  
i  
really  
uh_huh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
now where do you go when you go there uh right on basin street and those places  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh i see  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
really  
and don't they make a lot of um  
i'm trying to think what they call their soup  
i don't know  
yeah  
jumbo  
gumbo  
right  
is is is that with seafood  
oh you can  
that looks good too  
i've seen them the [chefs] on t v do that  
and oh it looks delicious  
see we do um uh a thing we call it a sea bake  
you uh you take clams  
okay  
so do you do a lot of cooking in your family  
oh yeah  
yeah  
do do you like to cook  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
but that's neat though because you get to have different stuff  
yeah  
i'm not i'm a pretty bad cook  
i'm pretty bad  
my husband is really good  
he put himself through college working in restaurants  
and uh he's much better cook than i am  
so when i was home i still cooked a lot  
and i was in to a lot of vegetarian stuff  
and now i went back to work about a year and a half ago  
so one of the things that he took over was the cooking  
and the kids are thrilled  
they're really happy that i don't cook anymore  
yeah  
they say oh dad let dad cook mom  
let him do it  
but um so so do you all do you have kids  
you obviously have one  
okay  
you have two  
two and half oh  
i was just going to say makes a difference in what you eat doesn't it  
or are you not at that stage yet  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
oh my gosh  
oh my gosh  
i couldn't  
yeah  
boy i couldn't do that  
i  
what's that  
oh really  
oh yeah  
what's what is that saint jack or something  
scallops saint something  
or yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
with scallops  
no  
no  
i'm from new england  
so we we had um a lot of seafood before we moved down here  
and uh that sounds delicious to me  
that sounds great  
i think we're just thinking of having a uh dinner party  
we went to this dinner party the other night that was kind of like a game  
they had uh a murder mystery  
and you came dressed as one of the characters  
and you had to solve the mystery during the dinner  
and it was really fun  
and so we we were thinking we wanted to do you know we were going to try doing it ourselves  
but we're trying to decide what can we serve because at this one the [hostess] was pretty busy running around trying to get stuff ready for the table  
and that kind of interrupted the game  
so   so i was thinking there's this beef [bourguignonne] recipe that i've tried before that's pretty good  
and then you can make that ahead  
and you can just leave it in the pot on a stove until you're ready  
so that's uh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
oh yeah  
i know  
my husband did too  
his parents are [austrian]  
and they uh always made sure they had a lot of meat at the table  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh my gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
so do you  
oh they did the  
that you do  
right  
right  
that's just part of it  
yeah  
we didn't my family didn't  
but when i got into the vegetarian cooking we got kind of used to that  
but my husband always did it kind of [grudgingly]  
he never  
there was dishes that he really enjoyed eating  
there were several things that he liked  
but it never was really something that he would have chosen  
it's just that i cooked  
so he had to put up with it  
so but there was one thing that he couldn't stand  
and that was [soybeans]  
i tried it like once or twice  
and he just could not eat it  
so i never  
i had  
i was limited  
i had to make vegetarian meals without using soy beans  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
some of the stuff is good  
but it just it was a tremendous amount of cooking  
because you do have to make sure you have the right combinations of different [proteins] to make sure they're complete  
and we had little kids at the time you know  
when i was home with them and it it was just so much cooking  
i couldn't i don't like to cook  
and i'm not really that great at it  
so it just turned out to be too much of a too much too much cooking  
so well i guess i'll let you get back to feeding your little one there  
he's set  
oh okay  
okay  
do you like to bake at all  
or do you do you get into that's that  
yeah  
really  
no kidding  
yeah  
then be gone  
i know  
that's the thing about baking  
i used to i i don't mind baking at all  
and i i can do a pretty good pie  
we have this pie crust recipe in our family that my grandmother gave my mother  
and my mother taught me how to make it  
and um so i can make a pretty mean pie  
but um i don't do it anymore because it's just too fattening  
we had the same kind of problem  
if you make homemade bread  
i mean it's supposed to save you money  
but you eat like three times the amount of bread that you usually eat  
it tastes so good  
oh uh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i've heard of that i've heard of it  
but i've never done it  
that sounds pretty good  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
and then you you make the bread  
but you [pinch] off a portion or save a portion of it for the next time or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know it sounds it always sounded  
i don't know how safe that was  
yeah  
that's true  
that's that's got to kill anything i guess  
but  
all right  
well yeah  
thanks  
plano  
yeah  
plano in texas  
are you in texas  
no kidding  
gosh it sounds so close  
yeah  
i thought for sure i thought for sure you were in dallas or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
they're they're trying to get all different amount of people  
well gee my husband is from richmond  
and i went to u v a  
that's where we went  
yeah  
yeah  
oh you did  
yeah  
yeah  
boy we'd like to get back over to the east coast  
i'll tell you  
it's nice over there  
oh really  
oh yeah  
no kidding  
well things are doing pretty good down here  
we we were we tried to move over to raleigh last year  
and there just was there was so little such little going on in raleigh you know  
you couldn't get a job to save yourself over there  
so we decided we'll try in a couple of years  
but but business is  
yeah  
you probably could you probably could  
okay  
well it's good talking to you  
take care  
bye  
um i do some every now and then  
i i work  
and my wife's home during the day  
so she usually ends up doing most of it  
when i was single we used to always cook around the house  
huh yeah  
i really like it  
um there's a few dishes  
like i i grew up with the um you know having polish and [ukrainian] food  
and my wife she likes italian and stuff  
so we we definitely have different tastes  
so  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh they're like uh [preferring] it now right  
yeah  
two  
uh_huh  
yeah  
one is uh nine months  
and the other is two and a half  
yeah  
that's the hard part is cooking with uh kids around because uh  
yeah  
it does  
we try our hardest to get them to eat what we eat you know  
and my sister uh she's the master of the fast order grill you know  
she can make uh she makes six different meals  
but  
like to have one thing you know  
one likes chicken nuggets the other one like hot dogs  
and then she makes noodles with uh with   soy sauce or whatever  
so all things  
but um yeah  
our favorite  
let me think  
i was thinking of the one recipe that uh that we made  
i guess the thing that always turned out the best for us was something we thought looked really fancy but was real easy  
and that was um   uh scallops uh [scallop] um  
it has a french name  
it basically means that it has a swiss cheese cream sauce with it  
and you pour it over rice  
yeah uh  
yeah  
i can't even remember what the [recipe's] name is anymore  
but uh it was basically just ground up swiss cheese and then uh standard cream sauce base and then uh   the scallops  
an and it sounds sort of funny  
but it tastes really good  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's another thing  
i have a problem with my wife  
she uh she likes to um she doesn't like the beef dishes  
she likes the chicken and fish  
and like i said we always ate beef and uh pork   you know a lot  
so  
oh yeah  
red meat plenty of good red meat  
my dad could eat a a meal with out any vegetables at all  
and uh [susan's] you know they had you know [meatless] meals you know  
my dad wouldn't know what to do  
course she grew up catholic  
so you know they   they sort of come with the  
there's a certain amount of [meatless] meals you have to have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's hard to get a protein content up then  
yeah  
i like i like them every now and then for a change  
it's nice  
uh_huh  
no uh  
he's all done  
yeah  
yeah  
i set him down  
yeah  
we used to do that um  
my mom used to go crazy every sunday until my dad like blew up you know  
after he gained about eighty pounds after coming back from the navy she stopped doing it  
but um she used to have you know two dozen sticky [buns] three bread rolls you know every week  
and um the sticky [buns] of course would last you know three or four days  
and that would be it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we always we had that bread that was uh um  
you ever seen the the starter bread  
i can't remember what it's called  
they call it the um amish bread here  
but  
uh it's made with  
you just leave it out  
you know and you let it spoil sort of  
you know yeah  
yeah  
it tasted pretty good really  
but uh it's the sort of thing where you let a portion of it go bad  
and then you add all these other ingredients to it  
but  
yeah  
right  
you take some of the [batter] out and give it to someone else  
and that's how they continue the thing  
yeah  
i know it sounded strange to me too  
i figure well you're baking it  
so you know yeah  
okay  
well i'll talk to you later  
where are you calling from by the way texas  
where  
plano  
okay  
no  
falls church virginia  
yeah  
i know we've got a good connection  
must be a uh t i connection  
yeah  
yeah  
i i talked to so many people from texas  
that's where practically everybody i talked to is from  
i think that's why they call me because they want to get people outside the state you know  
oh oh really  
yeah  
i went to school at uh well i went to school at west virginia university  
but i grew up right here in falls church right outside d c  
yeah  
it's sort of funny  
i have people that want to go to dallas  
yeah  
one of my one of my friends here he was just talking how he's thinking of leaving the company and going to dallas  
saying how  
yeah  
yeah  
we were saying we could sell our house here and buy one down there cash you know  
well northern virginia  
okay  
nice talking to you too  
bye bye  
okay  
where where are you from  
oh okay  
because i uh i talked to a professor in uh what was it north carolina who got the the t i system  
and he gave to all his students  
so my daughter's even talked to  
and i've talked to several people from north carolina  
i was just curious  
have you   too  
yeah  
i talked to the professor  
and i asked him about it  
and he said oh he says i think i'm the guy that actually uh gave it to all my students  
so that's why so many people are from this college  
go   ahead  
you you first eve  
food  
oh great  
yeah  
we have them too  
and i i'm trying to think which is the best uh that i prefer  
uh my wife uh doesn't like to have all that work on the very day that you're doing it uh  
and we haven't catered out very much uh  
we i always worry about the barbecue in that you have to be  
the man always gets that chore  
and you   have to make it perfect  
uh i've made shish kabob which i like  
it's fairly easy and fast  
uh  
i guess i'm thinking of the easy thing to do   for for having uh uh dinner  
i do cook  
but not  
i'm mostly the easy cooker  
you know the [breakfasts] and   and the steaks uh  
although i would like to experiment with uh the meals my mother made you know   so to speak  
and i haven't gotten around to that yet uh  
well she was polish  
and uh she would make very economical meals  
we were very poor  
different rice and ham and things that uh  
she would throw things together   and [galunkies] and all that  
and uh i would like to try that one day  
and she would make spaghetti with pork chops and and special meat balls and everything  
and my wife   of course thinks i'm crazy which i may be too  
but  
yeah  
but dinner parties are a lot of work uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that  
shish kabob is uh just because it only takes a few minutes to cook you know  
you get it ready  
you have to do a lot of work beforehand i agree and buy special stuff  
but uh so far as getting out there and and putting it on it only takes a a few minutes uh  
but anyway i'm i'm thinking of the easy way rather than   my guests i guess  
but uh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
right  
you'd get the odor of it yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh great  
oh yes  
we probably ought to try this  
but it probably will never taste as good as we remembered  
i guess it gets better and better as we remember it   back as we get older you know  
but   we probably should try it uh to do that  
the recipes are really interesting you know  
we're probably going to lose them  
and we'll probably forget all about them you know  
since we're trying to make everything so  
here i am talk about trying to make everything easy you know  
i uh  
you talked about thanksgiving there are interesting meals at different times  
uh something  
my wife's from texas  
so uh i remember we were first married  
and we were living in new jersey  
and uh we were going over to my mother's house for christmas you know to have a meal  
and we were on the way over  
we were just married that very year  
and she said oh i'm looking forward to a nice turkey  
i said turkey  
i said we don't have turkey at christmas  
i said we only have turkey on thanksgiving  
i said we're going to have a ham  
she said what  
i said yeah  
i said no turkey is only for thanksgiving  
and because she had turkey a lot you know  
and uh that was surprising in the in the east uh  
we always had ham you know  

and and that's one thing  
that's another recipe i guess we could talk about  
now the hams just kind of you know go take it out of a can or uh uh a package sliced uh  
the cans were cooked for hours and hours and and   were just wonderful you know  
i i'd like to try that too  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i saw them  
that's good  
no  
i i uh i've i know about sam's  
my wife i think goes  
but  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh i haven't heard   of that yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i'll have to ask her about that   uh because we have a delivery guy that comes around that sells  
i'm trying to think of his name of it  
uh uh i don't know uh  
i see a can here or a box here of gourmet choice  
uh he delivers uh  
what is the name of this thing  
i got a box distributor marked on it  
it doesn't say gourmet choices  
but he  
but it's a company that has uh you know a truck that comes around  
and and they recently had hams  
they have steaks and   and uh actually [pirogies] and all that stuff that uh  
i i wish i could tell you the name of the company  
but i don't know what it is  
but uh they recently had a ham that was supposed to be  
it was boneless  
and we tried it  
it was real nice  
and it was fully cooked and everything  
we had it   for breakfast a long time  
it was really great  
yeah  
i would like to try the old recipe though of cooking it  
and and i keep saying this uh to to do the different things that we did  
but i would like to put one in the oven you know the old fashioned way and put it in there for hours and hours and see if  
because i don't think in in my married life which is uh twenty six years now we've never done that you know  
and i remember that when i was a kid uh   to have the ham cooking uh rather than that we just  
ham is just something you have for breakfast occasionally you know  
and that's it you know  
in the old days we had hams were the meal  
and i don't i don't think we   really have it as a main meal  
right  
that's an interesting point  
how how have you changed your your meals now  
have you  
into that uh  
looking at those things  
uh_huh  
parents that's unusual  
oh yeah  
that's amazing  
yeah  
well that's amazing  
they'd go  
that they have started  
usually it's the younger people doing it  
yeah  
i  
uh   my my wife's mother is the only [grandparent] left  
and uh   she has high cholesterol  
of course i i have too but not like hers  
and i always get after her about salt and everything else  
and she just will i mean she's going to eat the same way she ate you know   her whole life  
and she just tells more or less tells me to shut up you know  
and uh i like to  
i'm trying to do something about my cholesterol in the same way  
uh  
uh it's it's not the  
i listen to uh larry [newarth] on the weekend  
he's a fitness expert  
and uh he talks about you know the chicken and the rice   and everything else  
and and uh throwing away peanut butter and all the things   you know the things not to eat you know ever  
i think the peanut butter and mayonnaise he would throw away for ever  
and then he's got me into making eggs without the yolk  
you know try that sometime  
my wife says she can't stand it  
but uh when i make scrambled eggs now talking about a recipe  
i  
say if i have four eggs not not for me  
but if i'm making four eggs uh even for my daughter and i i'll take out all the [yolks] but one  
and and it's fine  
you you don't miss it uh  
in fact when i when i make eggs for myself if i if i fry them throw them in there i will almost hard fry them so i can take not eat the yolk at all  
and you don't really miss it  
you get the flavor of the yolk  
but uh you don't eat it at all you know  
you don't  
they're hard  
you get like uh a bite at at the most  
and so uh for cholesterol i mean i'm trying that  
and it has worked  
my cholesterol gone down twenty points  
so although  
i haven't gotten on the which whether butter or not cholesterol [margarine] and all that  
i don't know know whether any of that is true you know   whether the [margarines] or butter  
um just here in dallas  
uh_huh  
that's  
yes  
yes  
that's true  
i've   talked  
uh_huh  
people from virginia and and all over yeah  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
um well the subject we're supposed to be talking about let's see is uh food  
what type of foods do you cook  
and what would you uh cook in uh uh let's see if you were giving a dinner party  
and the only reason why i may know a little bit about this is that i'm planning on having a barbecue pretty soon  
and to me that's the type of thing that i like to give in um uh cooking for people  
and uh if he's cooking outside where it's cooler and uh you don't have to do all that much work you know you just uh slap on some food and slap on some barbecue sauce and away you go  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
what kind of meals did she make that you liked  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
sounds interesting uh_huh  
yeah  
that's great  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh that's that's why i like the the outdoor stuff a   a lot better  
people can entertain themselves i think a great deal more uh when you have a barbecue especially when you have hot dogs and hamburgers and   uh you know nothing really fancy like your your shish [kabobs] where you have to do a whole bunch of work  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i think you do do a lot of work  
even if people do bring over things you still do uh all the uh   housework and get everything prepared and [utensils] and just just everything  
uh you know my mother used to make an [armenian] rice dish  
i'm thinking about uh special dishes  
and uh yeah  
it was made out of rice and consume soup uh and bacon and onions  
and then you'd simmer it like all day long  
oh it would  
yeah  
and it was just it was just wonderful  
that's that's something that i would really like to uh to try and find the recipe for  
but we used to have that at thanksgiving time   because you can you can put it on top of the stove and do this  
and and there's so much broth and juice in there   that it has to uh soak up into the rice all day long in order for it to uh uh to come out fluffy and and nice  
and that was you know  
when you were talking about the the polish dishes uh some [goulashes] and things like that  
that's uh that's what i thought about was that [armenian] rice dish  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know what i found was at sam's uh wholesale   uh stores  
and uh what they have is this honey baked ham  
they  
have you seen have you had any of those  
if if you ever get a chance to buy one of those i think it was uh twenty dollars for uh i don't remember how many pounds it was  
but you cook it in the bag that they send it in  
and all the juices and everything are all sealed in  
and i tell you what it's never failed to come out tender and [juicy]   and just   and just delicious because i normally don't like ham because it's so salty  
but with this honey bake that they have that that's the only one i have been able to find there at sam's warehouse  
it is absolutely delicious  
and it slices great uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
you know that sounds like it  
but that's that's the only ham i have found that i thoroughly thoroughly enjoy  
wow  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's true  
i i don't think so anymore not with more becoming more conscious of uh fat and cholesterol and and all those   good things  
oh yeah  
well my parents actually started it  
and uh getting  
well it it's true  
i think my parents are very unusual because uh we grew up in the south where uh you have all the uh you know biscuits and gravy   and oh fried foods [galore]  
and then gradually they started switching over to uh plain rice uh no gravy  
it's just it really is  
they uh they're actually they actually uh uh led us through it versus uh us teaching them you know the uh the [finer] points  
but my mother has really high cholesterol  
so it was   one of the reasons which started them off  
and they started doing this like in the early or in about the middle seventies  
uh yeah  
it's true  
it's true  
i agree with you  
so it's really neat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow that's good  
uh_huh  
okay um do you like to cook  
oh really  
what are you making  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and do you cook  
i mean are you single do you cook every night for yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well like if you were having a dinner party what would you cook a variety of things i mean you know vegetarian and [nonvegetarian]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's something that's you know really easy  
in fact i'm having a dinner party next saturday  
and that is what i'm having is pasta  
well for   for christmas i got a um pasta machine  
and all all my friends are really anxious you know to have the homemade noodles  
so um  
no  
it's the hand kind   old fashion kind  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i like you know kind of still having in put that not everything's being done for me   you know  
but um yeah  
so that's what i'm going to be cooking you know  
i thought i would  
um pasta salad first  
and um then just something for desert you know bread and wine and cheese stuff like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of people think though that i've talked to about it think that it's you know a lot of hard work  
and i said heck it's kind of easy  
yeah  
i do  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well i don't entertain that often  
uh when i do though i i have some friends that i always like to experiment on  
but you know um i see a recipe and think oh wow i'd really like to try this cause i'm single  
and i live by myself  
so it's not necessarily something that i would cook just for myself  
so i'll say okay you guys are experimental i want say how this is going to turn out  
but here we go  
and usually i'm i'm pretty good about it  
um i have this really good recipe for this um pork chop and apple casserole kind of thing  
and um you put stuffing and put [poached] apples and everything  
and my girlfriend and her husband loved it   in fact she passed it on to her parent  
and   so it's like it really made the rounds  
and i was quite impressed with myself if i should say so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm the kind of cook that i don't normally measure things  
i just kind of throw them in  
and you know i don't to the point of you know measuring down to the exact amount that they say  
oh is that what it means  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i've been wanting to take an um oriental cooking class  
and i just haven't gotten around to it yet  
yeah  
i stir fry things on occasion  
but i'd like to know more about you know more elaborate things like guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i just kind of you know cook here cook there  
i don't have any one specialty  
i mean i'm always willing to try anything usually  
and i i especially like baking and making deserts  
i've taken a cake decorating class  
and  
no  
no  
actually it was a private course   through like a  
it is it's it's neat but it takes a long time  
you know i mean like i'm elected to always bring cakes into work   like for people's birthdays and that  
and it's like you know you bake the cakes  
and then i guess just because i don't have the expertise to just hurry up and do it   like you know some a professional would i try to i go real slow  
and you know it's a little time consuming  
but it's really worth your effort once you see how you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you learn helpful hints in the classes at least  
you know the instructor told us certain things about well don't follow what's really necessarily on the box you know if you're making just a cake from a box you know do this cause you know make it a variety  
you know some different hints   yeah  
some different hints you know and the different the different kinds of [frostings] you can make  
you know and i have a book an it  
and you know all of the different you know decorating tips an things like that  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
yeah  
so that's about it  
okay well  
it was nice talking to you  
thank you  
bye bye  
well i love to cook as a matter of fact i'm making dinner right now  
um i um i'm making some uh  
i have a little turkey left from a passover which was in april  
and i had frozen it  
and i'm [defrosting] that and making some dressing and gravy and making corn and wheat stuff that you can buy at a store which is like uh rice [pilaf]  
but we  
with with with wheat [kernel] that  
no  
um i'm married  
and actually the  
my wife is a vegetarian  
so this isn't for her  
this is for our friends that came over and helped   helped me do some stuff  
so  
stuff so  
he and i  
and and she's having  
i i do cook um virtually  
i cook most of the time because i  
yeah  
we we consistently  
if we cook  
if if we have a dinner party we usually make it vegetarian just to make life easier  
so we'll make something you know uh some sort of pasta or something   you know homemade pasta or lasagna or something  
oh good idea  
what  
um  
electric or uh  
best   kind  
that that that that's  
we we bought one in italy  
that's the best kind to have  
uh_huh  
that's real good  
um  
that would be great  
have you made pasta before  
um so you know so you know that it's a a lot of fun actually  
i  
it actually is if if if you have a food processor  
i don't know if you have a food processor or not  
actually   it it turns out that if if you really want to be nice and easy about it you can make the dough in the food processor really simply  
and then um and with that it becomes really easy to make colorful pasta   by throwing in some spinach or some tomato or something and mixing it up  
it it's   a snap from there  
and then   i made  
i making yucky  
it's also  
people think it's real hard  
it just time consuming to get all of the little things right  
otherwise it's real  
it's good stuff  
what other kinds of uh dinner parties do you serve  
uh_huh  
right  
you didn't want to cook  
that's great  
uh     yeah  
that's how these things sort of make it for one person as an experiment  
and   i usually find it when i make up for the first time i usually doctor it just a   little bit and little here and there  
and   it works real well  
that means you're a real cook  
if you've ever watched the ones on television like uh jeff [schmidt] the super gourmet   he he just takes stuff he says yeah about an ounce of this or something  
it's real good  
yeah  
we have a we do uh uh middle eastern dinner quite a bit actually  
or uh we have people other that have never experienced it before and haven't had much middle eastern food  
we make uh cause we're my wife is syrian  
and um her families always have this food she grew up in  
and i've made some of it before as well  
so we make uh four or five middle eastern dishes that are just all real simple  
we put them out for people  
and that's always a real big kick for people who want you know who've never tried it before  
that's that's that's that's a fun idea i mean if you ever uh want something different to try  
i would try that  
oh do you have a wok though  
yeah  
i think it's god's gift to cooking   cause it's just quick  
it's easy um  
and the food just comes out  
you know if you do it right i think it comes out the food comes out very tasty not very mushy  
you know and and it doesn't taste like a million calories of oil  
so   we live in our wok  
yeah  
we we we like to eat even when we eat out and stuff we eat a lot of chinese food   or japanese food or you know   korean  
and that seems to  
so wok food seems to be our thing  
so anything else you cook  
well that's good  
that's always the way to do it  
i think it's uh  
oh the wilson course  
i like it  
that's great  
i haven't the wilson class  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we have um  
my brother can do it  
he's he's uh got a degree in business management  
so he learned to uh how to do this  
can you hold on one second  
thank you  
sorry about that  
some one kept [beeping] in our calling waiting  
so  
yeah  
he he does that a lot  
so you know he cooks a lot  
but   you know he bakes a lot whenever he  
when my wife and i got married the night before we had a party   or two nights before  
and he baked us he made a real big cake himself  
so new years our friend made a baby   cake like a baby new york  
it was amazing  
i never   could do anything with cakes  
so   i get the mold i put i put it on you know the [frosting] always melts  
and it's   it's just horrible  
yeah  
i'm  
oh that that you mean about the   mix itself  
well that helps  
yeah  
well most [frostings] are sort of butter cream to aren't they  
those are those kill me  
it's like it's like i'm eating sugar  
but they're good sugar  
i think that's part of the problem  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
it was it was a pleasure chatting with you  
yes  
well have a good time cooking for your dinner party next week  
bye bye  
all right  
what type of things would you fix if you're having company come over  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
you serve it cold  
oh yeah  
that sounds good  
um  
yeah  
usually when we entertain we do something really simple because i like to visit with my company   and not be [scurrying] around in the kitchen  
so   a lot of times we'll barbecue  
like uh for memorial day we had some friends over  
and we just bought a brisket and marinated it overnight in one of those like [adolph's] meat marinate   and put it on the smoker and cooked it  
and it was real good  
you can buy a fairly cheap piece of meat that way  
and then people think they're eating steak or something  
yeah  
yeah  
it really does  
i don't usually i just pass on any recipe that's got more than five or six steps to it because i just know i'll never take the time to do it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it seems like most people like spaghetti  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i think when you heat your kitchen up it really makes a big difference   in your whole house  
uh_huh  
yeah  
most  
we don't entertain like people from work or stuff often  
it's usually friends from church and stuff  
and it's usually kind of like you want to come over and they say well what can we bring  
and so it's real easy because you just make one or two things  
and everybody else brings something  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's a lot more relaxing  
i don't know if i could take the pressure of having to you know put on this really fancy dinner for someone  
huh_uh  
yeah  

yeah  
do you work  
do you stay home with kids  
yeah  
i i've been working  
we're going to have a baby this summer  
and i'm not going to work anymore  
yeah  
so hopefully i think i'll enjoy cooking more when i don't have to work all day  
i don't like to come home and stand in the kitchen and spend an hour fixing something and then have to clean it up  
and by then it's eight thirty or nine o'clock at night  
so  
yeah  
eat at six yeah  
oh that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
that's neat  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that really is  
it keeps the family in touch with what's going on with each other  
right now we eat in front of the t v  
but since it's just the two of us it's  
yeah  
uh_huh  
to see what's happening  
oh uh_huh  
oh i've seen those in the magazines  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we like that  
that's good that that's a good way to get kids to eat vegetables too  
oh neat  
oh wow that's great  
how old is he  
eleven  
wow   that's good  
do you cook like you cook a breakfast every morning  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
oh do they get [rubbery]  
or  
i've never tried it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we had  
my grandmother used to do that to us with things like squash  
everybody would say we don't like squash we won't eat squash  
so she would make these fancy casseroles and hide it in there you know  
and then we'd go oh this is really good  
well i have a really great one that i make in the summertime because it's cool  
and it's uh it's just really pretty easy  
it's pretty much dumping things in and [stirring]  
and i like that  
uh the only thing you have to do is cook the rice that goes in in it  
and then i you're supposed to do chicken  
but i just use those little cans of chicken  
and it makes it so much easier  
and so you dump the rice  
you dump the chicken  
and then you put in fruit like pineapple and [mandarin] oranges and [grape]  
now grapes are the ones that you have to pull all that off  
but i get my kids to do that  
so  
i i don't have to do that  
and um and it really  
and you mix it all up with  
there's a little dressing that goes in it that you have to stir up  
but it's so simple  
and it tastes really good because it's cool in the summertime  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it has to sit in the [fridge] over night  
but but it's really good  
and i like that one  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
yeah  
yeah  
and these days that helps doesn't it  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
now [spaghetti's] such an easy one  
um i do that a lot  
i do spaghetti a lot  
yeah  
i don't like to do that if it's real hot though  
because um i don't know  
i have a real thing about being hot in the in the summertime  
i guess  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
and um we don't entertain that often  
but when we do i'm like you i like it to be fast and easy   and something so that we can talk and not   and not have to worry about being in the kitchen all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
that's exactly like us from our church we just do it  
yeah  
uh  
well you see all that on t v  
and i could never be that person  
it just uh i'm just not  
well i'm so i'm pretty laid back  
and uh you know so i don't i know a lady in a my church  
and uh she like does her own bread and does her own stuff  
and so when she um does food she really goes all out  
and i don't know how she can do it and be calm  
i guess  
no  
i don't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh how exciting  
yeah  
well i usually start about six and an and cook and then eat at seven   i mean cook at five and eat at six rather  
yeah  
and uh my family and i we're a sit down together family  
uh yeah  
i don't like the run in and out part  
and i like to be able to sit down after school and have them talk with me an and my husband about what's happened  
and   i think i that was [ingrained] in me during my family time at home  
and uh you know we could learn to talk about things  
and i think that's good  
yeah  
i think  
yeah  
yeah  

well that happens to us sometimes too  
but uh sometimes if something uh is on that they want to watch i leave it on  
but we eat in the kitchen  
and their heads are always [poking] past the door  
yeah  
anyway food is is uh a real life style kind of thing  
and some people don't like to do this  
but i like to uh cook with my kids  
and if they're going to have other kids over then then they help  
and we make real simple things you know those oh  
i i don't know if you've ever made them maybe not since you don't have kids yet but those [jell] o uh [gelatin] things you can pick up with your fingers i can't think of what they call it  
yeah  
they're so simple  
and the kids love to do that  
uh finger food is is a biggie with them  
and and like now one thing i wish i could find a a better way to do are celery sticks and [carrot] sticks because they love to do that  
and it's just really hard  
and if you have to work with a knife i don't like that  
so that's uh  
they like to eat it  
but it's a hard one to have to to prepare  
but they like that with the the cool ranch dressing that goes along with that  
yeah  
yeah  
my son's getting to be a a real good cook  
so uh  
sometimes he fixes me breakfast  
yeah  
i like it  
i like it a lot  
he's eleven  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so  
uh not every morning uh  
mostly during the summer it's hit and miss  
and   we usually have like uh cold cereal or something like that  
um during the during wintertime when they're in school um then i try to vary it so that we only eat that like a twice a twice a week or something and then have like when it's really cold i even cook [oatmeal]   because i like [oatmeal]  
and the they like it all right  
and um then sometimes we do something  
it has to be fast because they're on their way to school  
we do like [eggo] [waffles] and stuff like that  
but  
yeah  
so i try to uh  
and sometimes we do eggs if i get up early enough to do that  
i used to do them in the microwave  
but they don't like that  
um  
it it depends  
if you let them cook too long   then they'll turn a little bit gray  
you can tell if they've gone to long because they'll turn a little bit gray  
and they will be a little harder  
and i don't like that  
so you have to just let it cook a little bit less than what it says in if you have a microwave book  
but you cook it a little bit less and then let it sit with a like a plate over the top  
and let it steam  
and then and then stir it up  
yeah  
an and that turns out okay  
and it's funny because if i turn them out on to a on to like a plate for them to take what they want   they don't know i've ever done it in a microwave  
it's really funny  
it's very deceiving you know because if they see it with their eyes they go uh i don't like want that   you know  
and yet if they don't ever see it then it's like oh this tastes okay you know  
so  
anyway  
yeah  
okay  
i i do a fair amount of cooking  
and and i love having guests to dinner  
i probably do that about once a month  
and uh i usually prepare something depending upon the guests you know  
it it i like to prepare chicken that seems to please everybody pasta or a casserole  
how about you  
um  
uh  
uh_huh  
well that's about the way i prepare most fish  
uh i made scallops the other night  
that was unusual  
and uh basically uh i found a recipe to make it in the microwave  
and you sprinkled uh you [swished] around a little melted butter and do uh-oh i do not know [microwaved] them for about nine minutes  
no  
no  
four and a half to five minutes  
and you had to add sesame seeds and bread crumbs on top  
very simple but very nice  
so if you are looking for a french recipe that was good  
sesame seeds and bread crumbs  
and uh my husband liked it  
and uh no  
unfortunately scallops are one of the more expensive uh fish items  
but you know i i look for them to go on sale at the grocery store  
uh one of the things i love to do eat out  
how about you  
do you have any particular places you like going  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have been there  
and uh it's kind of kind of like black eye pea  
but i do not think it's a chain  
oh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i i do not feel like they are very healthy  
and i always   feel like the home cooking places are are the [healthiest] meals  
you know i tend to have chicken fried steak when i go go to them  
oh how was it  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i tend to uh i get [teased] by my family a lot because uh i like experimenting on on food  
and sometimes i go for fairly exotic things  
and my father [teases] me about gourmet cooking   which is not always true  
but and the thing about experimenting with cooking or anything else is that some of the experiments fail  
uh the last time we had some uh friends over for dinner i tried a dessert that sounded wonderful in the recipe  
and it was just a total bust  
i was   sorry i did not have ice cream to fall back on  
oh my that's ambitious  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh see i am not  
that's interesting  
one of the things i do not make is dessert  
and uh my husband [accuses] me of putting him through dessert [depravation] because uh you know we have ice cream or something like that  
and that's why when i took did this experiment for the company we had about three weeks ago   it was just a total fiasco  
uh everything else was fine  
but that was a fiasco  
uh yeah  
yeah  
and i i also don't have much of a sweet tooth  
so i can live without live without dessert for the most part  
yeah  
uh do you cook for yourself  
or do you cook for others  
yeah  
well when i was single i used to uh i think my favorite meal was a a baked potato  
and  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
and i mean i never put anything other than a little butter on it  
if i had or if i had a little cheddar cheese sometimes i would [grate] that up  
and uh it's amazingly satisfying  
yeah  
i i did not say it was [nourishing]  
but it was satisfying  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
but you know i never really enjoyed cooking for myself  
so i ate very simply  
and i was that's why i think that's one reason i like having people over because i could try things  
i mean i must be a frustrated chemist or something like that  
cause cooking is a little bit like like being in a chemistry lab  
and uh  
yes  
and have an explosion  
sometimes it blows up anyway  
i i once had a an old boy friend over to to dinner when i was recently staying with my parents  
and uh i had this wonderful recipe  
and you were supposed to make a a [toffee] like substance for a pie by uh boiling [evaporated] milk three hours  
and it does turn to [toffee] inside the can  
and uh the only problem was when i opened the can it just flew all over the place  
it was on the ceiling on the walls and me  
and and the boy friend thought  
it was he was supposed to be there at six o'clock not seven o'clock  
so just at the time all this happened the door bell rang  
and there he was  
and i had to have my my my my dad sort of entertain him for a for   for awhile while my mother and i scrambled to clean everything up  
uh i really do not remember  
that was about ten years ago  
i just remember how embarrassing it was  
and i have made i have made it since i've i and several times before  
and i never had that problem  
just that one time  
and uh he he was a gourmet cook  
he was kind of pushy too  
acted like he came from san francisco  
and he had a very sophisticated taste  
i i really wanted to impress the heck out of him  
and and well it was a memorable evening anyway  
uh as far as  
i i do enjoy cooking  
so i was awfully glad i was given this  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those are things i like the most  
i like fish and chicken the most  
and uh most of the cooking i do just comes out of a can  
unless it is unless it is i catch a fish and i prepare it  
and then i just uh you know i just [broil] it and put lemon on it  
uh_huh  
sesame seeds and bread crumbs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh there's a restaurant called string bean on spring valley and central  
i like that  
it's just it's just home cooking  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
and that's that's the other restaurant black eye pea  
so i do not really like uh you know uh uh chili places or what is it judge roy bean's  
or   i do not like greasy places  
yeah  
right  
and i and i got uh chicken [marinara] the last two times  
it was uh it was great  
because that's that's what i like  
i do not like it you know i just like a baked you know a piece of chicken  
and then i get like green beans and mashed potatoes  
you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
my uh my brother tried to make uh a bunch of things uh way back  
he tried to make bagels one time  
yeah  
and uh we took some  
and then we had uh german shepherds at the time  
and we took some and gave it to the dogs  
and the dog never you know he treated it like a milk bone  
and he never did finish it  
he just barely made a dent in it  
uh and uh then he tried to made [grapefruit] [citron] one time  
it's uh supposed to be candy  
and uh it it did not turn out very well  
it was you know   it like made concentrated all the acid of the [grapefruit] into uh into a kind of a candy stick  
so uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
well you have to put eggs and everything don't you  
or  
yeah  
just about  
uh_huh  
use about half the sugar  
or make everything diet  
mostly i just cook for myself  
uh_huh  
it's easy  
that's for sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i always put cheese on them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you know there's hardly any i guess there's hardly any protein  
it's mostly starch  
so it fills you up  
and then the cheese has to make up for whatever the protein you get  
oh yeah  
it really is  
then you have to make a salad  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
except you get to taste the product instead  
fill them up  
or blow up  
yeah  

oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
did you let the can cool off  
yeah  
huh yeah  
right  
well hi  
i guess uh i'll just start by saying that we entertain with uh a gourmet club here um which means that we have like eight eight people four couples  
and most of the husbands  
this is really peculiar  
most of the husbands cook  
i mean the wives during the day you know get i guess so burned out on cooking whatever they have to cook every day  
um you know they don't really care about gourmet stuff  
but it was the guys that got together and did all this  
and um like my husband just he really really likes to cook in terms of um oh barbecue  
and i mean all guys i think like to barbecue  
i think it's [caveman]  
i'm telling you  
but um he really does cook  
and it's a good thing because you know you can't you can't knock that  
but all these other guys do too  
and so we've gotten together  
and we just do these really elaborate gourmet meals  
and it's really really kind of a neat thing to do  
you  
well we try  
i mean because you know everybody is so active with their kids and all that  
it's like you know if we can do it once every six months we're doing well  
yeah  
so i mean we originally started out you know when we were younger   and didn't have so much stuff going on with the kids um  
then we would we tried to do it every other month  
but lately it's just been once every six months  
yeah  
oh  
really  
really  
oh it is absolutely  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
well yeah  
that's true  
and we have a gourmet friend that can't stand fish  
so i mean he can get within  
oh my  
oh yeah  
it sure  
it makes you uh keep looking for recipes every time you have an eye out   for something like  
right  
so we we try to keep all that in mind  
but otherwise um i guess you know entertaining um  
i i guess i have recipes  
i um  
but that's that's basically what we do is the gourmet  
so you know they would be pretty elaborate  
um but it's fun  
i mean it took us four days to cook a stock and three days to make this stuff  
and   you know you get all prepared  
but you're right  
it's very very rich  
and i'm glad we don't have it every  
because it is it's a quite a treat  
it really is  
um  
right  
but so you like food  
and i just love the the community of food  
i just   think it's neat  
i just love sharing meals and   and whatever you can do you know to do that  
i don't think you have to be you know more than hamburgers and hot dogs out   in the backyard and the   and the [coleslaw] and potato salad  
but but  
oh  
what are you providing  
right  
right  
there you go  
i know  
we're all not built like uh what what oh   martha stewart you know  
we all aren't martha stewart and have our coordinated glasses and [tablecloths] and   and time to you know  
yeah  
shot a video of the whole thing  
i don't know  
but it's it's really kind of a neat thing  
i get a kick out of it  
i i really do  
everything all parts of the food  
i mean   i love to make things from scratch you know   making [breads]  
and and you know people really pretty much appreciate it  
oh i think so  
oh  
oh  
oh  
there you go  
oh  
oh it is  
i mean we have [bakeries] around here that you know you you just gain weight going by the door   you know just like that  
right  
but i don't know  
i guess some of the best things i've ever had um i some of them were just hors d'oeuvres you know  
doing little hors [d'oeuvre] things that i have a kick making that i mean you know  
i get off on strange little details of food i guess  
but   um gee we have so much going on here because you know this is dallas  
this is the southwest  
this is   you know chips and picante sauce and anything hot  
you know you can always make it hotter   and and lots of stuff like that you know  
so that's um a really good party time   eating all that hot food  
and and they just love it you know down here  
it just   just you know  
all the stuff that goes with that  
so  
oh i'm not  
thank you for noticing  
i'm from chicago  
and how i got  
really  
and how   i got to texas by way   of virginia i'm   and everything is a long story  
but  
yeah  
well absolutely  
i  
in fact it just came to mind um  
and this  
uh_huh  
great  
oh that's nice  
right  
right  
no  
how often do you meet  
oh yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
well that's much more reasonable  
i was involved in a a club like that for um that you know where we tried to really do gourmet uh meals  
and uh we we were a little bit too frequent i think  
i don't remember if we were once a month  
or anyway it was it was difficult  
by the time we went around it was uh four couples  
so uh by the time we got around uh to each of us and it was time again we were almost tired you know   um partly because um gourmet cooking is not particularly conducive for regular dining  
it's too rich  
and so we found that while we enjoyed the evening we regretted it the next day  
um so uh we we kind of  
and then one of the couples uh moved  
and so we sort of didn't didn't continue it  
but um and i must admit that as you say when your children start taking up your time then you you don't have as much time for uh regular entertaining  
but um uh uh when when we entertain i usually try to find something that will be um kind of good for everybody  
and that's   that sometimes means you can't do gourmet   because depending on who your guests are  
oh yeah  
well one of my friends doesn't eat any cheese at all  
uh so that's a real problem because so many dishes require cheese  
uh well i take that back  
uh she can't eat some cream cheese  
but that that really limits  
um  
oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh wow  
yeah  
yeah  
sounds wonderful  
oh sure i do too  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
sure  
well my um daughter is graduating uh sunday  
and so we're having   a uh few people in sunday afternoon  
and i did a cop out on to it  
i'm buying cold cuts  
well i have to   make a cake  
and i have to make hors d'oeuvres  
and i have to make dessert  
so   i figured for the main thing it's going to be sandwiches  
uh so oh i'm buying the little tiny rolls and so on  
but i can't do it you know working full time  
and it's just too much  
those people that try to do everything  
yeah  
ugh  
wouldn't that be nice  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh they do  
it's very difficult to purchase um items that are as good as what you can make yourself  
um in spite of uh  
or if you if you do buy it it's extremely expensive  
in fact uh i just got back from a shopping trip to purchase the cold cuts  
and i i bought turkey and [pastrami] and and barbecued ham at a an amish market near here  
and i've never been there before   and found that there's uh individual [vendors]  
and the foods are wonderful  
and one of the uh the um [vendors] had cakes all sorts of wonderful cakes uh they fresh strawberry cheesecake now and and so on  
and it's like thirteen fifty for a whole strawberry cheesecake um which is really not such a bad price  
i decided i i just couldn't quite make myself um buy it because i do make cheesecake  
and somehow   i didn't want to do that because it  
but i was very tempted because it looked wonderful  
and they had black forest cherry cake and all those things  
that but those are homemade  
they are not um commercial bakery made  
and in that they are made in their homes um  
so it it's kind of interesting uh  
it's out there if you want to pay the price  
but  
right  
just smelling the air  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
we like hot food too  
so  
right  
you don't sound like you're from texas originally though  
i thought   i thought that there was a slight difference in accent  
right  
i'll bet  
did um do you have a favorite hors [d'oeuvre] recipe that's easy  
or is it always  
good morning  
my name is jean  
oh where you from tina  
oh garland texas  
i'm in pennsylvania  
really  
do you work for texas instruments  
uh_huh  
most of them do  
now i don't have anybody that works for t i  
but uh   my son works for a computer company the national institute of something  
i don't know what  
so i guess we're supposed to talk about foods today  
yes  
uh_huh  
you ready  
okay  
uh foods like you would for a dinner party or something like that  
well i don't know  
my brother lives down east of us down there  
and i don't think they ate all that much different  
uh i think as long as you plan your basic foods  
course for a dinner party you fancy things up a little bit more  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and it's not as good as if it's fresh  
uh_huh  
is that right  
yeah  
well they probably were trying to do the best they could  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well they do in the summertime  
i think that   tea is big in the summertime mostly  
of course you have warmer weather most of the time  
so uh  
yeah  
so i  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
more like covered dishes for those type of dinners  
well i don't know  
just about anything  
yeah  
we we really uh use most anything  
i uh i think like parties and that though are  
well like we had a dinner party here here not too long ago with a mystery dinner party  
but basically we tried you know included all the basic uh foods that you are supposed to have in a meal  
your uh bread family and your  
or least what it used to be the regular menu was followed and   ham and bake potatoes uh  
uh something from each each area that you're supposed to choose from  
and uh we we we ourselves are into the wok cooking  
you know they been advertising that  
and   we've really been enjoying those uh meals  
they have a lot of vegetable to them  
and uh   they really are very good  
is he a meat and potato person  
well all our family is is gone  
they are out on their own  
and uh   it it's much different  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well my husband didn't like that  
so we us kids  
we had five children  
and we ate that when he he wasn't going to be home for supper  
that's what we had  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
oh those always go good  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
well maybe   that's good the way way the things are going  
uh_huh  
right  
children usually they like the ham and the hamburgers   and that  
and it is easier to chew  
uh_huh  
right  
we don't really have uh you know entertain too much  
i don't know if you do or not  
but we we don't a whole lot  
we're more once in a while but mostly family   activities  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's good  
yeah  
we do a lot of that take   things to church  
and our homemakers meet at the church also  
and uh   that's what we do mostly   most of the time for that  
so you don't really include any certain food groups  
you just bring   what you like  
sometimes you have all desserts  
sometimes   you have all vegetables  
yeah  
but it doesn't happen very often  
usually you get a pretty wide variety  
and you can you can   have pretty good meals   from one of those  
oh those are fun  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
was there enough to go around  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of irresponsible and does upset you because they are grown adults usually  
and you know they know better  
even if they can't do it they can always maybe get somebody else to cook  
right  
right  
they said that we could share we share   a recipe  
but i'm up at my daughter's  
i don't even have any of my recipes with me  
uh you know  
oh  
oh great  
they are ready to go  
well we probably have we talked long enough  
i  
okay  
so i'll let  
oh same here  
you have a good day  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
hi  
i'm tina  
i live in garland texas  
oh my lands you're the farthest person i've ever talked to  
yeah  
my husband does  
yeah  
probably most people you talk to do huh  
huh  
i see  
well that's neat  
yeah  
i guess you have to push one though  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
it may be interesting because probably here in texas we may eat a little differently than you do up there  
oh really  
yeah  
that's true  
well uh the thing that i found interesting  
my husband and i lived up in washington state for awhile  
and up there of course they ate a lot of sea food   and that kind of thing  
and down here sea food is pretty expensive because   you have to ship it a long way to get it  
right  
and and uh and but here we eat a lot of like mexican foods  
and um up there there was no no place that we went tasted like real mexican food to me  
yeah  
it tasted like they were trying to do the best they could  
but it just   didn't taste right  
yeah  
and uh down here we eat a lot more fried foods i think  
like chicken fried steak   is a real big thing  
up there uh it was hardly ever heard of  
and   we drink ice tea with every meal  
and up there hardly anyone drank ice tea  
really  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
it never gets real cold  
yeah  
but when when we have a dinner party around here i think a lot of the time a mexican menu is something real popular  
yeah  
i know that um i do a lot of planning with our church  
and a lot of the times when we get together well everybody will bring a mexican dish  
or   and italian food is real big too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
how about you  
what is real popular up there  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yes  
i i love that kind of cooking  
my uh unfortunately i am married to a man and have two children that eat about four things  
right  
they  
uh_huh  
that probably makes it easier  
but  
yeah  
we find ourselves eating a lot of macaroni and cheese  
and uh   and of course  
right  
yeah  
well that's pretty much what we do  
if dad's not coming home we have macaroni and cheese   or something  
but they like uh spaghetti  
you know that's one meal   i can fix  
and the whole family eats  
but uh there are several things that  
well as a matter of fact i keep chicken nuggets handy all the time because  
yeah  
the children love them  
and uh they are real easy to cook  
and   that way whatever meat we have if they don't like it well  
and my girls don't like beef  
i   don't know  
i guess  
well yeah  
it could be they don't  
i think it's the texture of it  
but it takes more chewing  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
so they're not too much into beef  
my husband and i eat more beef than we should  
but at least we keep our chicken nuggets handy for them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well most of the entertaining we do is church associated  
we have a real tiny little house  
we don't have room really   to have people here  
but we do get together for [fellowships] at our church  
and my husband and i do a lot of the planning in that  
and  
yeah  
it is  
and it's fun to uh  
i like just having a pot luck meal where everyone brings their favorite dish  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's the only problem with just letting you bring whatever   you uh like best  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i remember one time we had a progressive dinner  
it's the only time that ever  
yeah  
they are  
but it's the only time i can remember that  
i can't remember what food it was  
i it might have been the main dish that hardly anyone showed up with  
several people were supposed to bring   you know each like uh a an [appetizer]   and a main dish and a dessert  
and we had tons of desserts and tons of appetizers  
and   but when we came to the main main dish plate   there was only like two or three  
well not really  
you know we all took real tiny little portions   and uh were kind of angry with whoever it was  
we were not sure who didn't show up with the food  
yes  
right  
right  
either either go ahead and fix your dish  
or call someone that can  
i know it  
well that sounds neat  
i can't uh believe you're so far away  
but you sound so close  
it sounds like you're here in dallas  
oh  
i don't know if i have anything handy  
we were just about we were getting ready to go swimming  
and we're waiting on my sister  
[cara] hold on just a second  
as a matter of fact my   little one is hollering  
i think it probably has been  
so i've enjoyed talking to you  
thank you  
thanks for calling  
bye bye  
and i guess the suggestion is that we maybe talk about a menu for a dinner party if we wanted to do something like that or   share recipes or something um  
are you one who gives dinner parties very often  
no  
nor am i  
they are a lot of work  
that is for sure  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
you sound like my mother who has been  
well i bake pies too  
but my mother was always the famous pie baker in the family  
and she has the same the same technique  
i mean i guess after many years of doing it you just   kind of do it second nature  
uh  
she enjoyed it huh  
well there is a woman in our choir who is nearly famous for her apple pies  
and uh we had a a an auction one time at the church  
excuse me and uh one of her pies was [auctioned] for fifty dollars  
well i think i i have had it once  
and it has been a few years ago  
but i do recall that it was quite good  
so uh  
yeah  
so that is her specialty uh  
i like to bake uh also  
i do not bake so much now that my children are grown  
but i do enjoy baking  
and i guess i always liked making uh cookies and bars and things like that  
that was more my specialty   i suppose  
and they seem to last longer than pies around here  
pies would go practically   in a [day's] time  
yes  
right  
and  
well it is interesting that  
yesterday i had lunch with a friend  
and she was telling me that she had a dinner party over the weekend   for friends of hers  
for um uh  
one of her [acquaintances] one of her old friends i guess had been in town  
and uh they invited two other couples over  
and so there were seven of them that uh  
i said well what did you have  
and she said what she had uh just mexican food  
but you know she had uh uh guacamole  
and uh i cannot remember all she had  
but she also had made uh flan which is actually spanish i think  
have you ever made that or had it  
it's uh it's um  
i had used to work with a gentleman who was from cuba who would make it   uh  
it's just a wonderful dessert  
it's like uh an egg custard in a caramelized sugar   with on top of it  
and it's it's quite actually not very difficult to make  
but it's very very high in cholesterol i am sure with all the eggs that are in it  
but uh she said that she and her husband had uh traveled in spain a couple years ago  
and and flan is almost uh a basic with every meal that you get   there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's just very [customary] to get flan  
so if you ever run into that you will sort   of be aware of what that is all about  
but uh i would never have thought of making that as part of a a mexican dinner  
but you know [sopapillas] i guess would be another kind of a dessert if you decided to do something like that  
but  
flan is something you can   make ahead and have just you know have ready  
but uh well i would have been thinking i would like to have a dinner party sometime soon  
but i tell you it  

i  
my  
it's one of those things where it does require some real uh planning  
and   it's you know  
you don't just make the dinner  
you have the house to clean and you know the whole business that goes with it  
yeah  
probably a good way to do it  
oh the house needs cleaning i guess i had better have a dinner party  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
good heavens  
uh  
oh wow  
that is such a nice thing  
it's  
i you know  
until  
well we have  
my husband and i have been married twenty six years  
and until last year i had never had another person clean my house  
and   then i got so involved and so busy i said this is one luxury i am going to let myself have every now and then  
and so i had a woman come in uh once a month  
and you know it was not just very often  
but for me it was wonderful  
well  
it is  
and it is buys you time to do other things like have a dinner party i guess  
so it is just a real gift of time as far as i am concerned  
but well uh i  
uh_huh  
i have heard about that  
but i have never tried it  
no  
well i should say i have heard of one that has vinegar in it  
i do not know that it has egg in it  
uh_huh  
do you have it right on the top of you head  
you do not have it  
yeah  
i would  
uh_huh  
right  
uh quite large  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh what is it about the uh the vinegar that uh makes   the crust better  
uh  
interesting  
yeah  
yeah  
boy that that's the real secret  
oh  
it makes me think of years ago uh when i was visiting my mother in law in uh michigan  
she lived very near an apple [orchard]  
and we just had  
we could take as many apples as we wanted from it  

you know according to the owners  
and so i decided to bake about four pies ahead you know   and freeze them  
well talk about working with big amounts of pie crust and having it be tough  
those were the toughest apple crust or apple uh pie crust   i have ever ever made  
it was terrible  
i i could have used that recipe  
it sounds like  
where about  
well we lived in plymouth for four years uh  
yeah  
in fact i we were there from uh seventy three to seventy seven  
and   i was i worked for the little the weekly newspaper there the   the plymouth oh what was it called [crier]  
and uh my husband is from the upper peninsula  
so he was born and   raised up there  
that is where my mother in law still lives  
so uh are you originally from michigan  
or  
uh_huh  
i will be darn  
yes  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
no  
i avoid them with all  
yeah  
they are  
i mean i do them  
but they are a lot of work  
i usually have them when i there is a special event in our lives  
and i   i make a big deal out of it for them  
and uh i think i am most uh happiest with my most   familiar foods that i know are successful  
you know and i have i make my own pies and pie crust  
and   you know i can make my pies from scratch  
i do not need a recipe to follow  
and uh  
yeah  
you just know from heart  
i had one of the ladies at church that tasted my [coconut] cream pie  
and she said make me one  
and i made her one  
and when i when she gave me back the plate she said i did not share this with anybody  
and i thought whoa that was a big pie  
yes  
uh_huh  
my word  
she must have a great pie recipe then  
wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you  
that's right  
yeah  
they are meant for the that [evening's]   dessert  
and you know it has got to be gone or daddy gets into the you know the [leftovers]  
puts about two more inches on his [waistline]  
and then he is [chastising]   himself afterward  
uh_huh  
no  
i have not  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
sure  
yeah  
like apple pie in america  
right  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well when i have a dinner party that is my motivation for getting the   house clean  
yeah  
yeah  
we are catering a wedding uh um in august  
and   uh this lady that is  
it at  
it's at her house  
she is not a good housekeeper  
so she has got to hire this crew   of four women to come in two weeks prior to the wedding and get it ready  
yes  
and there you know  
she is she must have found some [jewels]   because they start in the corner and work out  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
that is nice you know to have that  
that's a   luxury today  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i have a pie crust recipe that i that is unique   that has vinegar and egg in it  
have you  
egg and sugar  
uh_huh  
uh i  
no  
i think it would be too [hazy] because um the  
i uh  
no  
well it  
like the liquid is like   a half cup of water and then your egg and then your tablespoon of vinegar  
and you mix that together  
and then you you know your  
see it makes it makes uh five pie [crusts] at once  
so that  
it's quite a volume of  
i think it's four cups of floor  
and like uh a tablespoon of salt and a tablespoon of sugar  
and   and you combine your dry ingredients  
and then you uh put in your liquid  
it just   it just makes it very [pliable] and   and very flaky  
and you can really treat it rough  
and you are still going to have a flaky pie crust  
like uh it's not mine  
it was from the one of the magazines probably twenty years ago  
and it said you can throw this on the floor and step on it  
and   it will still be flaky  
i thought wow quite a statement for them to make  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
wow  
well i am from michigan  
detroit  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's real close  
uh_huh  
oh how neat   oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
born in detroit  
okay  
well i i i guess if i was having a dinner party i depending on the number of people i might cook a like a brisket or a roast or a maybe a chicken dish  
and um i guess i usually plan probably a lettuce salad and a a potato dish  
and we usually serve fresh fruit and uh then make a dessert  
so that makes  
well that sounds good  
that sounds good  
bread do you have bread to go with it  
gosh  
oh well [lasagna's] always wonderful for large crowds  
i've heard you know i've heard a lot of people say it the short cut on the cooking for lasagna  
they they've told me that they go to sam's and buy a great big pan of lasagna  
so  
did you  
well i i know people that have have served it  
and they say gosh if you have company coming   when you don't want to be always in the kitchen it's easy  
and she said it's they said it's good  
so that that's always sounds good to me um  
i feel like i feel like i'm in the kitchen cooking a lot  
i cook guess i cook a seems like i cook a lot of dinners oh not always for company just for just for family  
so feels like i'm often in the kitchen  
but a time consuming place  
yeah  
right  
right  
so  
i don't know  
what that is  
no  
i don't know what that is  
okay  
right  
right  
right  
right  
right  
do you like to make your own guacamole  
yeah  
we we don't make it very often i guess  
but uh  
oh do they  
gosh  
gosh  
oh that's good  
that's good  
or it's always good on top of something in the sandwich  
oh well we made i made guacamole that i would take to a pool party across the street the other day  
and and everyone there said they never made guacamole salad  
well i don't know  
i guess they don't have it at home  
they must they just said they never had it at home  
so i i was concerned that i thought oh taking this you know taking this as a dip i thought gosh you know sometimes when we have it at home it it turns dark on the top   so quickly  
so i just  
oh does that help  
okay  
well  
well i'll have to remember that  
well i just i that day i just took extra lemon and just squeezed across the top  
and it really stayed longer than i   ever thought it would  
so  
i thought maybe that was the trick  
yeah  
yeah  
so oh well i guess we bought a lot of  
we've been buying turkey lately instead of beef  
so  
even though you know  
the ground turkey it's the meat is softer  
and i  
everybody   seems to like it  
so sometimes it seems to be cheaper too  
so we   often buy it  
we buy it  
yeah  
yeah  
so we bought that  
or we bought the the [filets] and then the chicken or turkey nuggets  
and i don't think anybody in my house knows the difference   unless you tell them  
or in  
yeah  
yeah  
less less cholesterol   yeah  
right  
right  
well i guess that's probably all we need to do for tonight  
i always like dessert  
right  
right  
that's always good  
probably probably the only family recipe that we we make and it's really for special occasions is cheese cake  
and we take a recipe from my grandmother you know  
it's probably fairly typical cream cheese and egg and sugar and the insides of a  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
uh we're not uh real wealthy at the moment  
last time i had people over for dinner we had lasagna  
and i used my mother's recipe  
i really like it  
it's got um  
you cook the noodles and make and brown hamburger and put tomato sauce in with it  
and i'm not sure she even puts  
must be some italian spices in there  
i can't remember  
but um for the cheese part you mix uh sour cream and cream cheese and cottage cheese   and uh layer all that  
it's good  
and then uh uh tossed salad and and um oh  
my goodness diane get down from there  
and uh let's see  
what else did i serve with that  
corn  
yeah  
i made french bread with that one too  
i have a recipe that's pretty good for that  
so  
yeah  
i've heard that sam's has a really good lasagna  
in fact i think i had it at a at a party once  
it was good  
easy  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i know  
oh yeah  
not my favorite place but   a necessity  
let's see  
what else do we like to have for  
trying to think what else i like to serve  
my mother likes to serve taco [grandes]  
have you ever had   that  
you take a flour tortilla  
and you fry it like a taco   shell  
and you uh  
for all the inside parts you brown hamburger and put some um tomato sauce in it  
and and i like to just add picante sauce to get the mexican flavor  
so you don't have to mess with spices and stuff  
and then um let's see  
and then and you heat up refried beans  
and you cut up tomatoes and lettuce and grated cheese  
and what you do to make it you take the shell and you spread the beans on first  
then you put the meat  
then you put the grated cheese  
and then you put um  
let's see what's next  
then and i i usually put the cut up tomatoes next   and then the um lettuce  
and you can put uh like guacamole and  
[katy] i'm on the phone  
well get a towel or go change  
i'm on the phone  
um oh a little sour cream is good   and and chopped olives  
uh yeah  
no  
i don't very often  
usually when we get [avocados] my kids just like to eat them plain  
so yeah  
i just cut slices off  
and   i like an [avocado] sandwich too  
yeah  
yeah  
what you want  
where do they get it  
i can't imagine it would stay fresh long enough to  
i guess they just buy it at a restaurant when they eat it at a restaurant maybe  
yeah  
it helps if you i helps if you leave the pit in it  
yeah  
if you leave the pit in the bowl with the thing especially while you're waiting before you serve it  
that's supposed to help keep the um keep it from turning brown so quick  
oh  
oh that's good  
that probably helps too  
do you want it  
oh yeah  
we have too  
do you want scrambled  
yeah  
yeah  
if you get it on sale  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think mine know either  
in fact we've been getting lunch meat that's turkey too  
it costs less than the other  
i don't know  
there's supposed to be something more healthy about it  
poultry instead of the beef and   pork  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can't think of any other specific things i like to serve um  
one salad that we always like my sister in law always brings to family dinners is a  
i don't know what you call it  
uh you mix um cottage cheese and a package of [jello] and a thing of uh like cool whip  
that's good   and quick and easy  
uh_huh  
okay  
i guess we're going to discuss food and cooking  
do you enjoy cooking  
i'm kind of that way too  
when i have i i enjoy cooking when i have time  
i don't enjoy preparing three meals a day everyday  
it gets kind of boring  
how big is the family you cook for  
uh_huh  
we have four  
so and two of them are teenage boys  
so  
are they  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we have that problem too  
but also now it's just the amount that they eat  
it's just absolutely incredible  
yeah  
does he  
yeah  
that's true  
uh do you have any favorite things that you serve when you are doing a special meal   favorite recipes that you've come across or  
uh_huh  
out on the grill  
uh_huh  
ooh  
uh_huh  
how  
ooh yeah  
ooh that's sound good  
i love that  
my husband really likes seafood  
um and i think that no matter what i do i don't serve enough of it really to uh to suit him  
i didn't grow up eating that much seafood  
and uh so i don't know  
it's just kind of not natural to me  
but i like it  
and uh i don't know  
one of his favorite things is uh  
well it's called seafood stew  
and it's really it's really like a soup that that you serve over rice  
and uh it has oysters and shrimp and crab in it  
and  
no  
no  
that's kind of louisiana i think   if you do that  
yeah  
i don't either  
but uh  
no  
this is just it is really good  
and and one thing that's good is it makes the a large amount  
and so i've usually we eat one  
and i freeze two containers of it  
then that's just real quick to get it out and serve it over rice  
but neither of my kids will eat it   you know  
so then   they eat a pizza or  
yeah  
it really does  
one thing i've run across recently though  
a friend gave me a recipe that i really like for chicken enchiladas  
have you made them  
does he ooh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well are these are done with a flour tortilla  
is that what he uses  
yeah  
isn't that something  
yeah  
i was going to say my kids both eat it  
i guess that's one thing that i particularly like um  
but i think it's good for you know for for company too  
and i've made it a few times  
um and you can make a lot at one time   when i needed to make something to uh to give somebody   you know like   you know to take over to somebody's house   or something else  
it it's nice when it makes   a lot because you can feed your own family  
and then  
uh_huh  
what   what does it have in it  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sometimes those are the best ones  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ooh that sounds good  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
those are good aren't they  
uh_huh  
um  
that sounds good  
right  
you cook the rice before you put it in  
yeah  
i bet the mayonnaise in there makes it really kind of gives it a   tang that would be good  
i guess i would now use the the new mayonnaise free  
yeah  
that's really wonderful that they're coming out with so many   new things like that because like i told my husband this summer i love to eat you know chicken salad and tuna salad   and stuff like that  
and and you know basically it certainly a low [calorie] you know good thing except then you put your mayonnaise in there and spoil the whole thing  
you know and now it's it's it's okay  
and you can even  
i used to just put a tiny bit in  
well now i'm just putting more and more in  
yeah  
and it's only it used to be like a hundred calories per tablespoon  
and now it's like twelve  
oh  
i just think that's the best thing to have happened  
i'm just so excited about that  
anyway   yeah  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's when they   as our family would say a pig out  
that's good  
oh one of my boys that that's twelve um is has high cholesterol  
have you ever found out   about your kids  
um and my other one does not  
so oh year or so ago he found out  
and he went on a fairly strict diet to try to get it down and did  
he was able to get it down  
it's i think it's mostly [hereditary] because we really have never eaten high   things in cholesterol  
he's never eaten any eggs  
he's never had anything but skim milk  
and you know i've never bought butter   and things like that  
but um oh he just left for the doctor again  
and it's it's kind of back up  
um so he needs to be careful again  
so we've really been talking about the foods you know for him to to be sure to eat  
and uh so he's eating an apple a day for the last two days  
and all that kind of stuff does really help  
well i think we've probably talked long enough  
and  
alright  
sometimes   not all the time  
right  
yeah  
that that's about the same boat i'm in too  
yeah  
uh five  
oh well i'll be hitting that fairly soon because all of mine are boys too  
so  
and they get pretty particular sometimes in   what they want to have  
huh  
oh yeah  
well see i my oldest is nine  
and he already   he already does that  
and i told him   he's going to have to get a part time job by the time he reaches teenage years   so he can eat  
um  
my husband and i our favorite meal is uh  
and we do it  
like for special stuff   [celebrations] and we have like steak  
and he does the steak  
and then uh  
uh_huh  
and he [marinates] it in his special stuff   that he does  
and it's real good  
and uh   i do [sauteed] mushrooms  
so  
and asparagus  
and that's our favorite   dinner  
yeah  
so do we  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's not the one with all the shells and stuff in it is it  
i don't know what that  
i don't see how you eat that  
but  
oh  
yeah  
so it  
yeah  
it defeats the purpose  
oh yeah  
yeah  
my husband makes those  
i'm not i don't eat enchiladas  
i i don't like i don't like the  
i don't know  
i guess it's the texture or something  
i don't like the taste of enchiladas  
but everyone else in my family does  
yeah  
i don't know  
i it's i don't know what  
i don't know  
i i don't know what it is about the enchiladas  
i just  
and i'm the only one including my mom and dad and my brother  
i'm the only one that   doesn't eat it  
but my kids love it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've got a chicken casserole that's like that that that i've  
yeah  
because i when i make this chicken casserole i it it makes a real big casserole and then another one that i freeze  
so or i give it to my mom and dad if i know we're not   going to eat  
it's  
you can use chicken or turkey  
because   my mom started making it like right after thanksgiving   and using the leftover turkey  
and it's rice and  
when i do recipes i just throw stuff in  
i don't i'm not real good about measuring  
because i just  
i do it to taste  
and  
well yeah  
but it it's like it's just chicken  
it it's as much as you want you know torn up   and and rice and cream of chicken soup   and some mayonnaise and lemon juice   and celery  
and that's it and some hard boiled eggs  
and that's it  
you just mix it all together and pop it in the oven just to you know heat it through  
and you sprinkle uh that those uh [toasted] onion rings   on top of it for the crunchy  
and that's it you know  
and it it it goes  
and it's filling because of the rice  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it gives it a an extra   yeah little tang  
yeah  
that cholesterol fat free  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
i don't like tuna salad unless it's got lots of mayonnaise in it  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
we did the low cal stuff  
well with my kids i don't  
they get enough sugar and   stuff anyway  
mine are bouncing off the walls normally anyway  
and they don't need any added help  
so when we're here at home you know with sweets and stuff they they don't we don't really do that much  
i do a lot of fruits   instead of the cakes and the [candies] and   you know stuff like that  
and and drink wise they have [kool] aid milk or water   normally  
now when they go to their grandmother's house   which is every weekend it's a it's a different   a different story all around  
uh_huh  
that's exactly what it is  
oh really  
no  
not yet  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
the lower cholesterol foods and stuff  

they suggested some sort of a recipe uh for uh company for entertaining  
did you have anything in mind that uh you'd like to share  
ooh  
oh  
ooh that sounds good  
what  
uh_huh  
one tablespoon of [worcester]  
okay  
oh that  
how much chili sauce did you say  
like eight  
not eight ounces  
that would be a lot  
is it  
okay  
this would make a lot right  
and how much crab meat did you use  
one   one can of flake  
oh okay  
have you ever used the uh [imitation] yet  
ooh that sounds  
i've tried it  
and then i have it here on hand for about a week  
and then all of a sudden it [dawned] on me  
wait is this totally [imitation]  
and then i found out  
i went back to the store  
and they said it is a fish product  
so therefore you really don't have a very long life you know   once you buy it  
i thought so you know they should put some directions on some of these new things they're making that you really don't know what the shelf life is  
you know  
oh that's a good idea  
whose was that  
uh sam's  
right  
right  
oh  
oh that sounds good  
because that's great  
that must be the ones that look like they're packaged for a restaurant  
okay  
i i've  
right  
oh hey that sounds  
right  
and it's something good to have on hand too  
it's frozen   in the first   place right  
so you can uh  
it is frozen isn't it  
and then you can [refreeze]  
hey that sounds great  
that  
oh do you  
and that's my favorite  
and i really don't care for desserts that well other than one piece of it  
that's the that's the thing i hate most about entertaining is thinking of what i'm going to serve  
i i said i can make it no time  
it's trying to think  
and then we just uh built a new home  
and i have one of these kitchens that's the center of the house  
and so no matter where they're at your company can see you cooking   which is funny  
this well this is what everyone has said  
they said it's okay for you because you keep a real neat kitchen  
and i said yes  
i decided it looks better in better homes and gardens than it does in [practicality]  
but uh what i have learned in the uh ten months we've lived here is it that when i entertain i have to have my foods all prepared and in the oven with all the everything through ready   to serve   because with the open area you don't want someone from your dining room seeing your mess like you said  
so you have to have the [picturesque] kitchen you know right out of the magazine  
you're right  
and you know the funny thing is now that i have a large kitchen with a big island and that i still have people trying to come you know  
they'll come in the kitchen  
and i said out  
we have the chairs on the other side of the counter   for guests  
you're not allowed to [trespass] into my kitchen  
and it it has worked out  
but at our point of life we know many of the people we're entertaining   uh well enough that they know you know it's very much at home type situation  
well we even   have a better one  
now we decided that we all meet we have it worked  
well i uh just had a christmas around the world party   the other night and had some hors d'oeuvres  
and i fixed uh a crab meat spread that is real good and real easy  
it's uh it's like uh eight ounces of cream cheese   [softened]  
and you mix it with one tablespoon onion juice and one tablespoon lemon juice one tablespoon [worcester] sauce and mix it and spread it out onto a plate  
and  
uh_huh  
and then you take and uh cover that with [drained] crab meat mixed with one of the small bottles of chili sauce and spread it over the top and spread it on [triscuits] crackers  
and that always goes over real well  
and it's real easy  
it's one of the small bottles  
i don't think uh  
well it's about eight ounces  
it it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it would probably make  
well it doesn't make quite as much as you think  
but yeah  
spread it out because you keep the cream cheese kind of thin  
one tin   of the flake  
uh_huh  
and drain it real good  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have  
i used it uh last [christmastime]  
uh what did i put it in  
i think i just served it by itself  
there's like a little [tidbit] with the sauce to dip it into and stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's very true  
very true  
i had bought a cheesecake uh  
and they very nicely put onto the box that it may be [re] frozen which i felt was real nice  
yeah  
it uh was uh lawry's i believe or [lawler's]  
and i got it  
do you have a sam's wholesale warehouse up there  
it's real  
yeah  
okay  
that's where i picked it up  
it comes out of chicago  
and they're very good   [cheesecakes]  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
and they have and they have the little papers between them  
and i think they're what about nine dollars and something  
yes  
yes  
yes  
yes  
it is frozen  
and i thaw it  
and then you can [refreeze] it  
and  
uh_huh  
it was they're very good very good  
and that's the one thing that i hate to make is desserts  
is it  
oh i love to eat it  
but i don't like to make it  
it takes time  
and you have to rack your brain  
and time i don't have anymore  
uh_huh  
it is  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and your mess  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's that's right  
well i like to have mine all done anyway because then i want to i want to party too  
i don't want to sit in the kitchen and be putting an olive on something  
you know  
correct  
sounds  
right  
well a lot of our entertaining anymore with the couples again that we've known a long time like you they uh we all bring things  
and it sure makes it a whole lot easier   anymore  
okay  
so you're into microwave cooking  
yes  
and that's what we all are looking for isn't it  
something that we can just cook in a hurry after we get off work  
i've gotten in the habit of cooking something big on the weekends so that i have [leftovers] all week  
uh_huh  
i know  
i try not to make too much  
it's just my husband and i too  
and i try not to make so much that it lasts more than that week  
but uh i usually i usually like to make spaghetti or soup or chili or you know something like that   or sometimes a roast  
but  
what's your favorite thing to cook if you're having a dinner party  
oh oh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds delicious  
uh_huh  
i end up with an old stand by that we call russian chicken because it's so easy  
and uh it  
you have to cook very little to go with it just some rice and some salad  
and that's about it you know  
uh you make you just take your boneless chicken breasts  
and then you take and make a a dressing out of uh russian dressing one bottle of that   and a package of [lipton] onion soup mix   and three ounces of [apricot] [preserves]  
and you mix it up  
and you just put it on the top of the chicken  
and then i cover the pan with foil and put it in the oven for about an hour  
and then i take the foil off and let it brown   takes about another twenty minutes  
and it's delicious  
and it's so simple because i can pop it in when i come in the door you know and then uh go about my business  
and by the time i've got everything else ready the [chicken's] [chicken's] done  
so that's a real easy thing for me  
uh_huh  
oh really  
no  
i don't  
my mom gets that  
but  
really  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
well i love cheese cake  
i have never been i don't know the ones  
i have made i have not done that well with  
i like a baked cheese cake you know  
i don't  
i have had a recipe that someone has given me that it's kind of like you just mix cream cheese and stuff   and [refrigerate] it you know  
but that's not the same as a a new york style   cheese cake  
and uh the recipes that i've used  
everybody will say oh this is real simple  
and then i make it  
and it's it's really not very good  
but yours sounds good  
i bet that lemon and orange peel gives it a little bit of [tartness]  
um well that sounds interesting  
so there's your good dessert for your dinner party  
are you into serving wines with your dinner party  
me either  
i wish i knew more about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they would be if you just had time to do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well how neat  
uh_huh  
um well i didn't even know they were offering that  
i guess i  
uh_huh  
oh well i bet that would be a fun thing to do  
yeah  
it's just it's so easy nowadays you know  
and it's uh especially when people are working just to come home and pop something into the microwave  
and it be ready in just a few minutes  
yeah  
all week  
well we've done that too  
there's just my husband and i  
and he he sometimes makes a huge spot uh pot of spaghetti  
and you know we're eating it for a week and a half  
and i kind of get sick of it after he  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
um i have a great recipe for sour cream chicken enchiladas  
it's it's really good  
i got it from a friend of mine that i used to work with  
and uh every time i've served it everybody just loves it  
so that's that's one of my favorite things to make  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what do you put in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds good  
is done  
right  
yeah  
that sounds good too  
i've got a um a great recipe for cheese cake  
i don't know if you get southern living  
but  
they have one  
if you like to cook they have  
every recipe i've tried out of that has been a really good one  
and um you know every month they've got all different kinds of recipes  
but i got one in there about a year or so ago on cheese cake  
and it's just a regular cheese cake  
and then you can put raspberry uh topping on it  
but inside the cheese cake uh recipe you put um lemon peel and orange peel  
and it's just enough to taste it you know when when when you're eating the cheese cake  
and it is wonderful  
but it takes a long time because you have to cook it for forty five minutes and then you turn the oven off and you leave it in the oven for another forty five minutes   and then you open up the oven door and leave it in for another forty five minutes   and then you're supposed to um i think chill it to room temperature  
so sometimes i'll do that overnight and then put the topping on the next day  
but it's it's very good  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
no  
it's not  
right  
it does  
and it it it is really good  
right  
oh sometimes  
but i mean i'm not a wine [connoisseur] by any means  
i've been to you know some wine [tastings] up in napa valley  
but um you know and i learned a little bit about them then  
but   you know what would be fun they have some of those classes you can take  
yeah  
and then there's places um  
do you live in dallas  
okay  
there's places here that um offer  
i think it's like once a month  
you can go and to a particular restaurant or whatever  
and you can kind of take a cooking class  
and then you get to eat everything afterwards  
and then they also go into the wines you know   to serve with you know different types of   of meals and that kind of thing  
and it sounds like it's a lot of fun  
we have some friends who've done that  
and they've really enjoyed it  
yeah  
this place is called like [medina's] or   [messina's] kitchen or something like that  
yeah  
it it sounds like like it  
okay  
while i was waiting for you to connect i i thought of a couple of menus  
so i decided it had to be in it informal or not  
you know   if it's informal i'd probably choose something i mean just like hamburgers or steaks out on the grill   because that's a lot of fun especially this time of year where it's so nice out  
um if it was formal i'd probably go with something like a chicken breast or lasagna or something  
i'm not i'm not into formal dinner parties  
but   i'd probably go with lasagna a green salad and garlic bread  
um i have a pillsbury cookbook i got when i was married  
but it's kind of the bible of cooking   for me  
then i have some from like church that are more family recipes that are more useful   you know budget cookbooks  
but   and of course you get a lot from when you're growing up  
um i cook a lot the same as as my mom did  
of course i've added several   different recipes  
but what you serve or what would you  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
that would be wonderful in these times  
yeah  
either they're really fast or   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's one of your favorites  
uh_huh  
wow  
sounds too good  
yeah  
yeah  
that thirty minute cookbook  
that sounds fun  
i find a lot of the cookbooks that i don't know that you buy over the counter ask for really strange ingredients or things i don't keep on hand all the time  
and i have young children  
and our budget's set you know at this time  
but i want to use simple recipes that   i have things on hand  
i don't have to run to the store to buy or look for something i haven't heard of  
that's why sometimes i shy away from uh more of a traditional cookbook  
but well it was interesting talking to you  
it's a fun subject  
food is one of my favorite things too  
anything else you wanted to add  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
that sounds really good  
it sounds like you guys are a little more gourmet than i am  
i'm pretty simple right now  
but  
yes  
that's probably that's true  
i have little ones  
and we and they won't eat you know too many different foods   right now  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
[spaghetti's] a pretty staple every other week or so  
and it goes a long ways too  
so   all righty  
talk to you later maybe  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i see  
so what do you use for cookbooks  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i i i think we come from from different backgrounds uh  
so the  
i i i  
so it you know  
have different perspectives that you are  
i find the joy of cooking to be a remarkably useful book   to to fall back on  
because it has almost everything in it  
but on the other hand it's not very inspiring uh  
it's a good reference when you need to dig something up  
what we've found very useful is a book called the thirty minute cookbook  
i think that's the title by marion [burroughs]  
uh which has recipes which allegedly can all be prepared in thirty minutes you know the whole meal  
and so she's  
yeah  
now now i i find that the cutting up of the food and all that really makes it take a little longer than thirty minutes  
but they're but they're but they're interesting   they're interesting menus um combinations that you wouldn't have nobody thought of  
um  
um gee  
the one i had most recently was was one that was  
she she describes as jim [beard's] favorite um summer menu or something  
and it [consisted] of of grilled [kielbasa] sausage   uh a potato salad with olive oil and uh some tomatoes that had been chopped up with onions and curry powder and probably some yogurt was in there  
uh and that and that was you know that's that that's certain you can do in thirty minutes  
but there are a whole lot of you know  
i mean i i would recommend you look at that book   if you're a busy person  
thirty minute cookbook  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
well you had said dinner you know you know  
what would i put together for a formal dinner  
we we had some friends over as recently as saturday night  
and and um put here here  
the inspiration was a combination of julia child for the dessert you know a chocolate [mousse] recipe   and a sort of cookbook which has a recipe for a thing called chicken [marabella]   um which is this wonderful thing you can do um  
basically you're baking baking chicken in a in an open pan um having marinated it first  
and my wife did this part so i don't remember all the details  
marinated in olive oil and some seasoning um and cooked with some olives and some and some [prunes] uh  
there's a little bit of brown sugar in there  
and it bakes up  
and it's a delicious thing  
and it's easy  
[comparatively]  
so   um i'm sorry  
i just love  
well maybe a little more leisure time   to do it  
i don't know  
yeah  
i found my kids were very frustrating when they were little   in terms of their tastes  
well there again sometimes it was easy  
they'd you know  
canned [ravioli] was   one of their favorites and so it was easy to   open a can of [ravioli]  
yes  
well nice talking to you cheryl  
okay  
bye  
okay diane  
and a very good afternoon to you  
do you uh do most of your cooking at home  
or do you uh have a lot of people come in and have to prepare for them  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
well what would you uh like to cook  
what's what what's what is your favorite uh recipes uh that you would like to have   for a dinner party  
now you're in dallas is it  
okay  
i was i was thinking in terms of mexican almost   tex mex  
uh_huh  
well that's a very interesting food though  
and when i go out to eat dinner sometimes   that's the type of foods i like to find  
we have uh  
i think chico's  
or or in these different restaurants   in this area that uh have all this fine mexican foods  
but um if i were to cook uh a dinner party uh it may be standard to you  
but uh actually i never get too much fried chicken  
but i would have fried chicken uh with reasonably hot sauce on it   almost a mexican type thing  
and i love twice cooked potatoes  
have you ever had twice cooked potatoes   with with a cream made of the the sour cream and cream cheese and uh a little [oleo] and i use uh [oregano] and   maybe dill weed uh mixed in with it  
and uh i like broccoli casseroles   which would include onion and cheese and and more dill weed   and some medium hot peppers  
as you can see i'm inclined towards the mexican type of a meal  
and i would probably have some quiet and gentle fried onion rings mixed in there with it too  
so uh how would you improve upon that  
more fresh vegetables  
included to that  
uh_huh  
how do you cook your green beans  
uh_huh  
so you  
all right that's what i was wondering about  
what what you use and and   in herbs and so forth  
uh_huh  
have you ever tried chinese type green beans  
we use soy sauce  
well you might uh be interested in that  
have  
it gives a very delicious taste  
you you have a soy sauce taste  
and you also have a little cream sauce in there because you   you would use the uh water and  
uh golly what's this white powder that that uh that you mix with water   and gives a thick sauce  
i can't even think of the name of that right at the moment  
anyhow  
sorry about my mind  
but uh it does make a nice thick creamy sauce with the green beans  
and then you have a nice soy sauce taste under it with a few onions in there with it  
if it does  
it it brings out such a so much different things in uh   in the string beans  
i i like it to try them differently  
i hardly ever cook them the same way twice   just so i can enjoy them  
so you might uh think about that  
chinese cooking actually has a lot of very delicious tastes to them  
and uh north african cooking is good   when you use something called [couscous]  
and that's uh made from uh i think they call it beans  
and that's the type of something that whatever you mix with it this [couscous] uh absorbs the taste of whatever else you put in it where that makes a very delicious dish  
you probably have to buy that from specialty stores  
c o u s c o u s  
and that's a a north african dish  
they eat it one to two meals everyday   in north africa  
and it is very very flexible  
you can do a lot of things with it  
it makes a fantastic uh uh salad with cucumbers and   olive oil and onions  
and  
oh boy  
real tasty  
well i've enjoyed talking with you  
and i hope i've   given you some ideas  
and uh that's one thing we can enjoy is good delicious food  
well thank you very much miss diane  
bye bye  
and good afternoon to you  
um no  
i do most of my cooking at home  
and um i could safely say that i have never cooked for a dinner party  
um  
right  
i'm in dallas  
of course um dinner parties down here probably oh turn out to be more things like barbecues  
and  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
uh tex mex uh  
mexican food um   probably a little bit different than what you serve up in pennsylvania for a dinner party  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
fried chicken  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
i have  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh improve upon that  
let's see  
i'd probably put a bunch of fresh vegetables in  
and some  
yeah  
uh green beans and uh   carrots and things like that  
my green beans  
um i just get fresh green beans from the grocery store and snap off the ends and put them in water and steam them for about ten minutes  
and i like to put a little mrs dash in with them  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um i like to just put a tablespoon or so of mrs dash in there  
and it makes them pretty tasty  
the chinese type  
are they the real  
no  
i haven't ever used that  
uh_huh  
a white powder  
um gosh  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i might try that  
oh yes  
i love chinese  
north african  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
well i've enjoyed   talking with you  
oh yes  
okay  
thank you  
bye bye  
hi donna  
ready to get started  
okay  
sort of an interesting topic since i just got back from lunch here  
oh it was uh it was  
i'm an officer in the air force  
and we went to the [officers'] club for a little mexican food  
today   yeah  
yeah  
if you're having a dinner party what what would you serve  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
jeez  
well well when is the party here  
i don't know  
being a being the bachelor here that i am i i don't think i'd i'd be  
i mean it it's not a question of capability here to do something like that  
it's just there's there's no motivation  
you know i want to i want to throw some charcoal on the grill and and throw a steak on there and some baked potatoes and stuff like that  
but um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they   they are shooting for here  
well i live on a i live on a lake here  
and uh so it  
and then during the summertime it's real nice to be able to entertain outdoors  
like that's a little more a casual thing  
but in mine the wintertime it's not bad too because then i've got a a fireplace and a nice nice house and all that  
so we   sort of a   really good place to do entertaining like that  
i just haven't uh really tried a whole lot  
but uh   i don't know  
let's see  
i have had well one time i did have a dinner party  
i served a uh uh  
i had a gang of people over and kind of made a fried chicken thing and biscuits   and kind of southern uh southern food even though i'm up here in new york  
so  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's  
oh no kidding  
upstate  
rome  
in uh   [griffins] air force base  
well i was born in buffalo  
and uh been all over the place  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i've been down to texas a few times   and uh had uh the pleasure of their good mexican   cuisine down there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hi  
this is donna donahue  
hi  
uh yeah  
i think so  
okay  
well what did you have for lunch  
oh  
oh  
well that's interesting  
okay  
so our topic is is food today  
is that  
okay  
okay uh  
do you want me to go first  
okay  
if i was having a dinner party i would probably um have some um some uh um some fruit to start with with some apples sliced up and maybe some cheddar cheese and crackers and grapes and um probably serve maybe some wine and beer and maybe have some uh uh salsa and chips around and peanuts  
and then i would have um let's see i usually have like a little theme when i have a dinner party  
so   um i would have maybe um say if it was like greek night or something   um maybe um on the barbecue we'd put uh cubes of lamb or i guess lamb used for greek and um like a shish kabob   and um mushrooms and tomatoes and onions  
and then we'd have um like a big greek tossed salad kind of like a [caesar] salad  
and um let's see what else  
um maybe some rolls and um i guess some uh some rice or something like that  
how does that sound  
yeah  
um yeah  
that would take some planning  
but  
that's right  
well that sounds good too  
i have um i have three kids  
so um when we have friends over i have my oldest kind of baby sit for the little two younger ones upstairs  
and um usually we just have very plain kind of you know interesting not very interesting meals   pizza and that all  
so once in a while when we do something like that it's kind of fun  
but it's not a   not a regular thing  
um   now are we supposed to talk for about five minutes  
is that  
it   okay  
okay  
um let's see now  

okay  
so you would have a barbecue  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you are in new york right now  
oh  
i'm i'm in texas  
i didn't know this was all from all over the whole country  
oh i see  
and i'm originally from long island  
yes  
and now where are you in new york  
oh upstate  
oh okay  
oh okay  
is that where you you are originally from around there  
oh okay  
oh wow  
that's interesting  
okay  
let's see  
um well i like to have um sometimes when i have a dinner party i'll have um everybody bring something  
and that's real interesting because then you get different um different kinds of foods and new recipes  
and um uh sometimes somebody will be bring something that you really like  
and get the recipe from them or whatever  
and we are just getting interested in in mexican food  
because here in texas they have lots of   really good mexican restaurants  
and   um we're we're just getting into the fajitas and all that stuff that you could  
do you know what a [fajita] is  
yeah  
okay  
yes  
they have some delicious delicious things  
and i um  
since i always make chicken [burritos] and just   take chicken breasts  
and you boil them maybe like four chicken breasts  
and you boil them until they are cooked   maybe like thirty minutes  
and then you [debone] them and and kind of shred them up into the meat that has gotten cooled  
and you take um little bit maybe two tablespoons of butter and a in a big frying pan and chop up some onion and put in [oregano] and salt  
[angie]  
okay  
um let's see  
uh i like seafood  
uh let's see  
uh shrimp steamed uh [shellfish] with maybe herbs  
uh spicy lobster with [linguini]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh i think hors d'oeuvres are good too  
uh and that way you can have a variety uh  
uh  
yeah  
fresh vegetables would be good  
or uh just  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
oh all these hard questions  
uh what white wine  
yeah  
i'm not really a drinker  
so i'm not i don't know a lot about that  
oh goodness  
uh chocolate something chocolate  
uh  
yes  
oh you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that sounds good too  
traditional  
right  
yeah  
i just started   i just really started uh uh learning about that  
and i bought a martha stewart  
i don't know if you've heard of her  
her cookbook  
and she talks about catering and uh you know goes into goes into all that and the different types of uh uh different types of parties you know different types of foods  
um my father owns a restaurant  
it's it's just a uh a cafe  
so it's not really anything you know that i want to  
it's not the same  
uh it's in lewisville  
trinity  
that's public  
no  
uh_huh  
it's not  
uh  
let's see  
what about [hawaiian] [luau]  
could have uh uh fruits and and pineapple uh  
let's see uh  
i think i think decorating your food is you know really  
now is it [stacy]  
[angie]  
i'm sorry  
well now so if you were going to have a dinner party what would you make  
that sounds good  
now what is uh what is uh the steamed [shellfish] you said  
and what would that be like a clam or uh  
okay  
so if you have a a dinner party and you're going to serve uh seafood for supper what type of uh hors d'oeuvres would you serve prior to the meal  
like cheeses or fruits or vegetables or  
probably not [nachos] and dip huh  
and would you uh would it be appropriate to uh drink with the uh prior when you have the hors d'oeuvres  
okay  
and then when you serve the meal what type of wine would you have with uh with the with seafood  
that would be my guess  
and   and then uh uh dessert  
something sweet  
you must like chocolate  
well let's see  
usually when we have a dinner party i always i like to grill  
so we might have some [cocktails] ahead of time and maybe some uh some dip uh some cheese  
one of our favorites is uh to take some let's see philadelphia cream cheese i think is that what comes in   those little blocks   and pour cocktail sauce over the top of it and then get these little canned shrimp and uh wash them and cool them and then dump them in the uh sauce and then take crackers  
and then you just dip the cracker in the sauce with the clams and the cream cheese  
and you have a real nice dip that goes good with a cocktail  
and then i like to barbecue like steaks or pork chops  
and then we have uh oh lot of times we'll have baked potatoes with them   and a salad  
and then uh i don't know what we usually have for dessert  
cake sometimes  
but uh that's what we would do for a dinner party i guess  
but that's i guess when you talk about dinner party that's probably not uh that's more for like when friends come   over  
traditional  
yeah  
i wouldn't be the big uh [snotty] kind  
huh_uh  
oh well do you work in a uh in a setting where you uh are in the food business  
oh in uh   is it in dallas  
okay  
all right  
so you graduated from which high school  
trinity  
okay  
and that's a public school or private  
huh okay  
i have to get to know this area a little better i guess  
uh well is your father's cafe uh one that you could cater out of  
um and he's not interested in letting his twenty one year old daughter experiment with it probably  
well let's see  
what else for catering uh  
oh that would be good  
and you could actually go with uh a chicken if you wanted to  
what are you guys having for christmas  
oh you're not  
yeah  
well funny you should mention that  
i'm a pig farmer  
yeah  
well now it's kind of a hobby more than anything else  
but we're going to have uh wild boar  
we uh we killed a boar the other day  
it was you know [mating] with the [sows]  
and you can't use the [piglets] you know  
so  
it's about six months of no use  
so we uh we shot him and cleaned him out and had him you know processed into ham  
and uh we're also going to have a little roast [suckling] pig because i i've got one that's got a a [hernia]  
and rather than you know pay the vet four hundred dollars for surgery we'll just cook him and eat him  
well no  
hey i tell you what preparing a little pig is is a snap  
i'm telling you real easy easier than chicken  
yeah  
you just uh  
you kill him you know  
you probably  
most guys just shoot them in the head  
they go you know  
in a second they're gone  
and then you just dip the [carcass] in uh boiling water pull it out and there's a we use a little [raspy] brush pulls the hair off and uh gut it and uh just stick it down in a pit with some [cloves] and uh some pineapple about three [pineapples] you know sliced them up and uh cover him up with uh wet uh sacks feed sacks is what i usually use   and then start a charcoal fire on top of him  
and after about six hours you put the fire out and dig that baby out of there  
and it's the best eating you ever had  
yep  
just like a pig  
i mean you know uh it has a lot less fat  
this wild boar weighed probably about three hundred and thirty pounds  
and he dressed out to almost two hundred and ten pounds  
well you know we took the skin and the head and the and the feet off  
and that was about you know a hundred hundred pounds of just ham  
oh well we're you know we're not going to eat the whole thing  
it would take a year  
but uh you know we're going to drive up to kansas city see my wife's folks  
and uh she she  
what's what's what's your mother cooking for christmas  
yeah  
well her mom's doing brisket  
brisket  
it's a part of the cow that they used to throw away  
it's just tough as a boot  
and uh you know they used to use it for leather i think  
i mean no  
i was kidding  
but uh it's it's a part of the [loin] you know the rib cage  
and it has a lot of muscle in it and a lot of   [gristle] where it [attaches] to the ribs  
so it's really really a tough piece of meat  
but it's so tasty you can't stand it  
so you just take it  
and you marinate it for a couple of days  
and then uh you just put it in the oven  
takes about four hours to cook one  
they weigh about anywhere from ten to twenty pounds  
and uh we're going to have that  
oh well we'll have [cranberries] and [hominy]  
and uh we we are we're big on olives and cucumbers and stuff up here  
we have olives black olives and cucumbers and uh tomatoes  
we still have tomatoes  
yeah  
fresh tomatoes  
well it started to freeze up around here you know  
there's nothing between you and us but our [barb] wire and half of that's down  
i mean it's thirty degrees this morning  
yeah  
but uh it'll go up to fifty or sixty almost  
oh yeah  
well it's desert you know  
where where we are it's it's it's uh the edge of the desert  
i mean it's part of the great plains  
so in the day time in the summer it goes up to a hundred hundred and ten  
and at night it goes down to about sixty  
yeah  
we get a fifty degree temperature swing in about four hours  
so everything that lives around here is real tough  
that's trees you know  
we got hundred year old trees that are you know twenty feet tall  
that's all the bigger they get  
they you know they're just hard as a rock  
what are we having  
let's see  
well i'm not planning the menu  
no  
we usually go out to either one of our folks  
they both live close to  
but um i don't know  
it seems like a a big thing for christmas is usually ham  
oh you are  
huh  
my goodness  
huh  
oh really  
is that is that hard  
oh really  
oh  
huh  
oh my goodness  
oh well does a boar taste just like regular ham  
does it  
huh  
oh my  
oh my goodness  
oh well how many people are you planning on serving at christmas  
eat it all  
yeah  
i don't  
what is brisket  
huh  
oh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
huh  
and that [softens] it up huh  
huh  
oh gee  
well what else do you serve with your pig  
huh  
oh do you  
oh we we just got lots of snow  
oh really  
huh  
oh my goodness  
i didn't know it got that low at night  
oh gee  
my goodness  
oh boy  
oh  
oh gee  
okay  
um well i like to cook um  
but i don't like getting too awfully fancy about it just   because um uh it's too much pressure   you know  
if i have people over for dinner i like it to be   nice and relaxed  
yeah  
and so i don't like to arrive or or when they arrive for me to be completely worn out  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you'd just do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um boy i like that  
yeah  
well i'm planning a  
and naturally this is appropriate because i'm planning dinner for people tomorrow night and   then the next night  
so tuesday night there'll be eight people here altogether  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's fun  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's a good idea  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's good  
well one of my favorites if i don't want to have other people bring stuff i just want to treat them is   to make chicken and rice  
it's very easy to  
you don't like it  
oh you do  
okay  
yeah  
i have a really easy recipe for that where you just brown the chicken  
and then you put rice in the bottom of the pan  
you pour [bouillon] or chicken broth over it  
and and you put the chicken in then pour the uh broth over  
and you can put mushrooms in if you want  
and then you just  
yeah  
over uncooked rice  
and you can either microwave it  
or do it in the oven  
and it just  
it [fluffs] up  
and it's really moist  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'll keep that one in mind  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can get away with it   even having a semi nice dinner  
or you know semi  
yeah  
yeah  
you put in um  
let's see what was it three quarters of cup of rice  
or  
it depends on  
you can really vary it  
but you have to put the water in [proportionally]  
i can't remember  
i think it was three quarters cup rice to two cups water two cups um broth  
yeah  
flavor  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um let's see  
i think it was an hour  
i've done it in the microwave so often lately because it's it's really easy  
yeah  
but i think it's about an hour  
or maybe it's only half hour  
um you just  
until the rice looks fluffy and   and not overdone   you know before it gets overdone  
yeah  
um i'd let it cook just a little bit   just so that the cooking goes a little faster  
yeah  
i liked your idea too there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

okay  
what kind of   foods would you have  
oh i do too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can't enjoy it  
right  
that's that's what  
i like doing things like making lasagna just because i can have it ready and baking   in the oven  
it's  
everybody just says how wonderful it is  
and it's   it's like uh yes  
i  
that's one of those things i got famous for in college  
people would come and say could would you come over and make lasagna for me  
it's like well i can't really give you a recipe uh  
i can   i can just do it  
i like doing that kind of stuff  
and it's it's fun  
in fact that's what we had for a christmas party last week  
we just had a bunch of people over  
and we had we did lasagna and garlic bread and uh yummy  
uh i do too in fact  
oh  
oh good  
uh actually one thing we have done quite a bit through the holidays just because it's a real easy is just baked potato dinners  
and have you know like three or four couples come over  
and i'll do the potatoes and you know like butter and cheese and stuff and have everybody else just bring a couple of [toppings] whatever they like  
and it turns out great because   i mean you've got like hot sauce and taco meat and barbecue and you know bacon and all that good stuff  
but it's it's inexpensive  
plus it's real easy on the [hostess] because you can just have the potatoes ready and just have a salad with it  
and you got a great dinner  
it's it's real easy  
i like doing that part  
i'm in favor of very little clean up um very   little planning   because we've got three or four couples that we get together with to play games  
and   it's  
we invariably end up at my house since i've got two kids  
and that it's it's fine because then i can just say okay fine  
you bring this  
you bring this  
you bring this  
we're done  
and it's pretty cool  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh i love it  
um  
over the uncooked rice  
oh  
oh how neat  
huh  
now i've done it with where you put you cook the well i guess you probably could do it same way but cook the rice and then take a can of like cream of mushroom soup or cream of chicken soup and put a little bit of white wine in it  
and every once in a while i'll put in i'll slice white grapes  
and i'll put in there  
and that's just because i'm not a real big wine person  
but i like it  
it   adds something to the chicken  
and then just bake it  
and it makes a wonderful sauce over the rice  
yeah  
it's that was one of the first things i made for my husband because i was like um  
yeah  
i could actually find something i could cook real easy that would be kind of sort of elegant   kind of  
